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redmars3000
Guest
Actually the Church of England would disagree with you, since the U.S. Episcopal church has been excommunicated and all. Remember that?
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Contarini
Guest
Actually you are misinformed. We have not been excommunicated, although our status is currently in doubt. The Church of England really has no authority to excommunicate anyone. The primates of the Anglican Communion may be taking further action in September. You are jumping the gun.
Furthermore, I’m not sure that the C of E is going to go around making pronouncements about who are “real Anglicans.” That’s not generally a C of E sort of thing, at least not these days. The most they will probably say is that we are no longer in communion. That, however, has not stopped the “Continuing Anglicans” from claiming the Anglican label.
Edwin
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redmars3000
Guest
So my church newspaper from the diocese of west Texas is wrong? Sorry, I dont believe you.
M
Montalban
Guest
As are your retorts!
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guestmuslim
Guest
I dont think there is a muslim on the face of this earth and the moon that believes he should kill somebody for not sharing the same faith. If you really think so then you are totally misunderstaning muslims and islam and you are blinded by the current complicated political situations
Finally, the Quran called on us muslims to respect jesus (PUHIM) and believe in what he received from god and we will always do.
I dont think that Jeses (PUHIM) has ever told you christians to insult prophet mohammed (PUHIM) just because he does not share your faith.
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
I agree with you.
Thanks
True, no matter what has been said or done; we must forgive and pray for others, regardless.
J
JFonseka
Guest
The Imams in Saudi Arabia, the Imams in Iran, there are PLENTY of people, living in the middle east I have heard and seen such stuff. That is to do with people not believing in the faith itself, there were a lot of force conversions that took place.
I even remember someone on a music forum saying something against Islam and a LOT of arabs started saying in the name of prophet Mohammed we will do this and that to you, then they started posting disgusting pictures of decapitated people and mutilated people as a warning to others as to what happens when they insult prophet Mohammed. This is from my own personal experience and the arabs I knew personally. This of course relates to people ‘insulting prophet mohammed’ and not people believing in something different, but what is this? Running around yelling Jihad because someone insults mohammed, the consequence of this is for people to hate prophet mohammed and arabs more, I don’t blame them specifically, they are doing what their leaders tell them and the leaders are always quoting from the Quran.
I am not ‘insulting’ Mohammed really, I am pointing out the contradictions in his teachings. Is it not true that he took child brides? That he wanted others to kill for Islam? These are in the Qu’ran is it not? I know the Q’uran respects Jesus, they address him as a prophet, but this is contradictory, Jesus’ teachings are very different to Mohammed, so they obviously couldn’t have been teaching to the same purpose.
I am not insulting prophet Mohammed because he does not share my faith, neither am I insulting him as such, it may seem derogatory, but that is his fault, not mine as the subject matter regarding him is atrocious, so for me to speak of his actions may seem derogatory, but that is because his actions itself are appalling.
Like I said, I’ve lived in the middle east before and therefore due to that, I have heard plenty of stories, seen what others have had to go through in the name of ‘Allah’, whilst the media does exaggerate a lot of stuff and the workings of Osama and other terrorists should not be a generalization though I do tend to generalize sometimes, I am sorry, but I see what forgiveness in the Islamic religion is, a while back in Dubai they used to chop off the fingers of thieves, then they stopped that due to international relations, do I sense hypocrisy? They were doing what they should have been doing, but they didn’t anymore due to international problems with their methods. 3 teenage boys were stoned to death in dubai in 1992 because they went on a spree and knocked people over, while what they did was horrible, they could have been put in prison for life instead of getting the PUBLIC to come and stone them.
How about the public executions in Iran and Iraq, the sense of injustice the women have to go through? When rapes happen in islamic countries, it is heavily censored by the mainstream press. How about the girls that were ordered to be put to death by the Imams in Iran after she stabbed 2 guys that tried to rape her and her friend? This is peaceful loving Islam instituted by your leaders in the 20th and 21st century, and they seem to be following prophet mohammed’s example.
J
JFonseka
Guest
Now while my rant seems to be some extreme anti-muslim thing, I’d like to point out, that’s it’s just towards those people that actually enforce horrible things, namely the Imams. I have a lot of muslim friends and they don’t do any of what some Imams say. It’s probably the minority Imams giving the majority a bad name, I cannot say for sure because I don’t understand Arabic fully and don’t always pay attention. But this is just what I’ve seen personally while in the middle east.
But I’d like to ask one thing from the muslims here, if someone does indeed insult prophet Mohammed, WITH reference to Quran, what must a muslim or the muslim community do? or insult Allah.
I think this will clear up everything, if I’m wrong about what I’ve been saying, I apologize, it would have been a great mistake on my part to generalize what some Imams do as the teachings of prophet Mohammed or other islamic prophets.
But I’d like to ask one thing from the muslims here, if someone does indeed insult prophet Mohammed, WITH reference to Quran, what must a muslim or the muslim community do? or insult Allah.
I think this will clear up everything, if I’m wrong about what I’ve been saying, I apologize, it would have been a great mistake on my part to generalize what some Imams do as the teachings of prophet Mohammed or other islamic prophets.
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
The Governments should be secular and democratic, I agree with you, some or many of the evils you have observed while your stay in Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Iran, Iraq etc is due to this, but this is no fault of Muhammad/Islam/Quran. We ordinary peaceful Muslims follow not what the govenments in these countries say nor what some religious cults are saying and doing.
We know that that is their fault, and they are responsible for their wrong doings in this world and also in the hereafter.
In fact Muhammad himself prophesised that a time would come when his followers would leave him,Islam and Quran and you are a witness to this:
Prophecy regarding the hardened clergy
Hazrat Ali narrated from Muhammad SAW that the Prophet said: There will come an era on the people of Islam that the real teachings of Islam would not be left but only in name in them (i.e. they would be devoid of the real and truthful teachings of Islam). There would not be left from the Quran except its written text. The mosques of people of that age would inhabit to the full outwardly but these would be empty of the guidance. Their Ulema or scholars would be the worst of the creatures beneath the sky. Tribulations would rise out from such mosques and would return to them (i.e. they would be the source of all the evils of that period). This Hadith has been traditionally narrated by al-Behqui under the al-Iemaan, classification. Its reference is: Mishkat, Kitabul Ilm, al-fasl-us Thalith page 38; Kanzul Ummal volume 6, page 43
Thanks
A
Abraxsis
Guest
This thread should be titled “What Muslims should be taught in Mosque.”
Starting with Mohammed, who was according to Muslim hadiths a warlord, a killer, a pedophile, and a womanizer. Muslim eyewitness accounts depict Mohammed in this way. Not the Christians, Jews, or Hindus they would want you to believe.
Any religion that is founded by a man like that cannot be taken seriously, but yet shomehow thrives because of its ability to prey on the poor, angry, and distraught people of the Middle East.
Mohammed was a man. He is not God and Muslims never claim he was. Since man makes mistakes and is imperfect it is impossible to rationalize how he gave an inerrant word of God when he is unworthy to make that bold of a claim.
Jesus came 600 years before Islam and warned against false prophets like Mohammed.
Muslims should be taught their real history of how they attacked and killed people in the early years of their religion. They killed Christians and stole Christian lands yet today they arrogantly proclaim their holy places as their own as if it was theirs to begin with.
Muslims pray to a meteorite when they make their pilgrimage to Mecca. I am not kidding they worship a stone and hypocritically declare they have no idols. They even face east when they pray so they can be directed at this stone.
That should be just Islam 101.
You can write tons of pages about this religion of death and intolerance. You can make the claim that Islam is a religion of peace. However a peaceful Islam is a misinterpretation of the message Mohammed brought. The closest real Islam is Shariah Islam which incorporates all the important hadiths and the Koran. Which is exactly what I will call Muslims out on.
I remind all followers of Islam the only reason we can even discuss Islam in this way is because I do not live in a Muslim country(thanks be to God), because if I did I would be beaten, whipped, and thrown in jail for ‘insulting’ a prophet who liked to have sex with young girls and kill people. All I would be doing is calling a spade a spade. Islam is nothing but intolerant, Dark Age, cultist killers who refuse to listen to serious challenges to their faith.
I warn Muslims I am Gnostic. All I do is read theology and Im their worst nightmare.
Starting with Mohammed, who was according to Muslim hadiths a warlord, a killer, a pedophile, and a womanizer. Muslim eyewitness accounts depict Mohammed in this way. Not the Christians, Jews, or Hindus they would want you to believe.
Any religion that is founded by a man like that cannot be taken seriously, but yet shomehow thrives because of its ability to prey on the poor, angry, and distraught people of the Middle East.
Mohammed was a man. He is not God and Muslims never claim he was. Since man makes mistakes and is imperfect it is impossible to rationalize how he gave an inerrant word of God when he is unworthy to make that bold of a claim.
Jesus came 600 years before Islam and warned against false prophets like Mohammed.
Muslims should be taught their real history of how they attacked and killed people in the early years of their religion. They killed Christians and stole Christian lands yet today they arrogantly proclaim their holy places as their own as if it was theirs to begin with.
Muslims pray to a meteorite when they make their pilgrimage to Mecca. I am not kidding they worship a stone and hypocritically declare they have no idols. They even face east when they pray so they can be directed at this stone.
That should be just Islam 101.
You can write tons of pages about this religion of death and intolerance. You can make the claim that Islam is a religion of peace. However a peaceful Islam is a misinterpretation of the message Mohammed brought. The closest real Islam is Shariah Islam which incorporates all the important hadiths and the Koran. Which is exactly what I will call Muslims out on.
I remind all followers of Islam the only reason we can even discuss Islam in this way is because I do not live in a Muslim country(thanks be to God), because if I did I would be beaten, whipped, and thrown in jail for ‘insulting’ a prophet who liked to have sex with young girls and kill people. All I would be doing is calling a spade a spade. Islam is nothing but intolerant, Dark Age, cultist killers who refuse to listen to serious challenges to their faith.
I warn Muslims I am Gnostic. All I do is read theology and Im their worst nightmare.
A
Abraxsis
Guest
BTW, LOL at the Muslim guy who wants to find the truth. As a Gnostic Christian the irony of that is too much to handle, it truly is.
M
Montalban
Guest
That’s what’s called ‘wishful thinking’ and it blisffully ignores those who are performing such horror, even in our own life-time.
How many Moslems are on the moon?
But your version of Jesus is not ours. You respect your own version.
Jesus warned us of false prophets!
G
guestmuslim
Guest
Islam is not Iran, Islam is not Saudi Arabia, Islam is not dubai etc.
Islam is a religeon, its a way of life,
its how you deal with your parents, how you deal with your neighbors, how you deal with your spouse and kids.
how to work for the good of the society you life in
how to fix your life and make it meaningfull and leave the world satisfied.
If you keep looking for problems that happened here and there, you will find alot but you will never know what islam means especially on a person’s life level.
Islam is a religeon, its a way of life,
its how you deal with your parents, how you deal with your neighbors, how you deal with your spouse and kids.
how to work for the good of the society you life in
how to fix your life and make it meaningfull and leave the world satisfied.
If you keep looking for problems that happened here and there, you will find alot but you will never know what islam means especially on a person’s life level.
P
paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
I agree with you.
Thanks
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of peaceful and human loving Muhammad and his religion Islam and Islam of PromisedMessiahImamMahdi is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking moral and peaceful.
M
Montalban
Guest
I agree. But Islam is in fact informative of how these nations conduct themselves. Islam is such a way of life that people have nations following Islamic ways… which is after-all a goal of Islam.
What for you, is un-Islamic about Saudi Arabian law?
Well, if you go about waxing on about non-issues you’ll find people will see that Moslems can’t offer much argument.
M
Montalban
Guest
This is in effect the basis of your argument. Avoiding discussion, and simply stating your opinion (ironically doing what you accuse me of doing on another thread).
What is ‘un-Islamic’ about how Saudi Arabia conducts itself? When they order that people can not preach Chrisitanity, how is that against Islam?
G
guanophore
Guest
I agree with you , however, to some extent Christians are reaping what has been sown. Although we no longer engage in “Holy Wars”, it has certainly happened in the past. Many atrocities have been committed in the name of Christ. I was listening to a program yesterday on Ireland, and continue to be mortified that Catholics have been warring against Protestants for so many decades. Then there is the Klu Klux Klan…
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guanophore
Guest
It is preached here, though very privately. That is why the govt. was trying to get permission for undercover agents to enter services and do surveillance.This kind of stuff is sometimes preached in third world countries, but not in the United States. I have many Islam friends and I have attended Mosque with them many times. Islams in the US are not taught these outrageous things.
And if even if they were - you are all on this forum posting bad things about Islams, feeding hatred for their religion. It’s the same exact thing. You should try to not be hypocritical.
I don’t “hate” Islam. I just recognize that a good Muslim will want to exterminate Christians and Jews. Those that are not passionate about their faith (lukewarm) will not espouse annihilation, perhaps.
Islam is a religion of peace. It calls for a peace that can only be found in submission to it’s teachings, and to the Prophet. Those who do not espouse it are to be put to the sword.
T
tomarin
Guest
um, protestant england invaded ireland and started a settler colony, not the other way 'round.
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Montalban
Guest
Not quite true. Catholic England, with the Pope’s blessing (the only English pope - Hadrian IV) effectively took over Ireland.
" Ireland was a feudal territory of the English monarch under the nominal overlordship of the papacy until 1541, when it became a kingdom belonging solely to the King of England."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadrian_IV#Adrian_IV_and_Ireland
When England became Protestant they had troubles in their Irish lands and decided to settle the most troublesome part of their possession with Protestants, in what is known as the Plantations.
However you can’t say that “Protestant England invaded” ignoring that it was already *their *domain.
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