From scripture we find that we are judged in accordance with what it is that God reveals to and demands of us.
Obviously, but please don’t be offended. I took it to mean there is no hope for those who cannot believe, cannot sincerely believe in God, in Jesus for whom He is…but this isn’t about hurt feelings of any of the posters, it’s about a discussion that has at least some possibility of giving a helpful direction to the OP.
I have addressed that in another thread entitled “The Dilemma: the Christian Conception of Jesus vs. the Muslim Conception of Jesus.”
Was not offened, just puzzled. The point is that God expects even the invincibly ignorant to be honest.Obviously, but please don’t be offended. I took it to mean there is no hope for those who cannot believe, cannot sincerely believe in God, in Jesus for whom He is…but this isn’t about hurt feelings of any of the posters, it’s about a discussion that has at least some possibility of giving a helpful direction to the OP.
What may not have been clear was that I was intending the remainder of the post to the OP. It seemed important to explain those things to him/her. Your comment provided a springboard to speak to him her, not a criticism of your thought, nor even perhaps an accurate reflection of your intent in saying it. My observation is that you are very sound. Sometimes I think we, even sometimes mistakenly, take a particular aspect of what someone has said and it allows the Spirit to say something that the person may need from the Spirit’s perspective.
A couple of posters have felt offense at what others may have said, but that’s not what’s important. What matters is if we say to the person what God wishes us to say. We hope He will, and even trust He will, even though personalities sometimes get in the way, this is what most of us serious posters do try to do. Many of us who remain as members remain to serve as we hope God wishes. It has always been clear that you are one of these. Apologies if I disturbed you.
Warm regards, Trishie
I’m sorry if I didn’t make that clear in my post. I thought I had in that post you referred to! Thanks for pointing out that if I failed to sufficiently address that.
So, let’s see if I have this right. To be saved I must love. What I believe in regards to Jesus is irrelevant. Right?
I await your reply in that thread.
What Muslims fail to acknowledge is that Jesus identified Himself as the “I AM” The Jews said :"He blasphemes, The Jews knew that God was the “I Am” This was their great excuse, not the fact that they were envious, and humiliated by Him when he called the “hypocrites” the spiritual leaders of the people. When Jesus said that He was the "I Am, through their own words, He was saying “I am the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob”
I’m asking you a simple question, but it doesn’t appear that you’re capable of giving me a simple and straight forward answer.
That’s all it is…an assertion. Making assertions is easy. It doesn’t mean anything.
Seeing as no-one else is grabbing the bull by the horns here…
Why are you evading the question? This particular forum is entitled “Catholic Answers.” So, I expect a Catholic answer to the question I posed in the original post of this thread: What must I do to be saved?
Okay. So, there is salvation outside the Catholic Church. We do not have to believe that Jesus was God incarnated to be saved. We do not have to believe that Jesus died for our sins to be saved. We do not have to believe that Jesus rose from the dead to be saved. In fact, we can reject all these teachings and be saved. Because clearly both Muslims and Jews reject all these things. And according to your understanding of the Church’s teaching, it is possible that they might be saved.
Let me just amend this a little bit; there may be salvation outside the Catholic Church. We really don’t know and it’s not a matter Catholics can really comment upon. We only go as far to presume God is not so petty and vindictive to send souls like unbaptized children or Hindus up in the Himalayas who never got to even hear about Jesus to hell. But in all truth, we don’t know for sure hence why it is a doctrine, and not a Dogma.
Again, we do not know this. We are taught however to embrace the faith, so even if it were not a requirement and the doctrine of Invincible Ignorance turns out to be correct God clearly intends and desires for souls to acknowledge the sacrifice he made for their sake.
Again, Catholics do not know this for sure, it’s safer and more fufilling to know the full truth of the Gospel than take a chance
To Protestants of course it does, but we must remember that the Catholic Church reserves all right to interpret the Bible and does not belive in a literal interpretation or sola scruiptura.
To the extent that the Muslims, and Jews have the truth, to that extent they are in the Church, separated brothers, sharing a common humanity, but individually different, that why Catholic means universal, for all men. But first and foremost, Christian. Its to the extent they have truths concerning God that we agree, but disagree where we must. We are not here to change your opinions, or convictions, or to convert we can’t do that. But we are here to witness to the truths of our Faith. It’s amazing how we can give so much and receive so little from those who ask so many questions. I really like to hear their defense of their own convictions, and show me how logical they are, prove to me your beliefs. Try being on the defense, instead of the offence. Sometimes it seems like a one sided conversation. And don’t use the excuse that this is the Catholic Answers forum and therefore we are expected to answer all questions, we do a pretty good job, but the responses are not too enlightening. Are we looking for the truth, or just to win an argument? Are motives sincere? If not then we are wasting our time and effort. We are witnessing to what we believe. And we consider it a supernatural gift, not one gotten from human reason, but not in conflict with human reason, our faith is reasonable, not its product. Even a child can have it Thank God!! Children are entering the Kingdom before so called intellectuals who are so complicated, they need the simplicity of a child, not childishness.
No, I didn’t give you the answer you wanted.
It does not appear that you have one.