G
gracelife
Guest
Thanks Roman C. , yes it does depend on our starting points. I appreciate your insight.
- Status
M
mrs_abbott
Guest
D
djrakowski
Guest
gracelife, if you have access to EWTN, I highly recommend a program called “The Journey Home.” It airs every Monday night at 8PM (Eastern time), and presents stories of those who’ve converted to Catholicism from other backgrounds. When I was investigating the Catholic Church, this program was extremely helpful in getting me to see these important matters from the perspective of people of similar backgrounds who’d converted.
God Bless,
Dan
God Bless,
Dan
G
gracelife
Guest
What is so frustrating is that I’ve watched the Journey Home. I’ve read, Surprised by Truth 1 and 2, the Catholic Mystique, etc. I’ve read the stories. I’ve heard the stories, I’ve read the stories on the Journey Home website.
I’ve studied and studied.
Why isn’t it enough?
I deeply seek God’s confirmation on what to do. To show me his truth and let me know WHAT that truth is.
I realize you’ve found the truth in the Catholic church.
Where is the confirmation for me that the CC just isn’t another “denomination”, that what she says is true and that her interpretations of scripture are correct.
To make things worse, If the CC is correct, I’m in mortal sin because of their “binding” (will discuss via PM if anyone is interested). If the CC is not right, I’m A-OK.
There’s a lot at stake here you see.
But, if I rely solely on Christ’s work on the cross (and repent, believe, am baptized, and obey Christ’s Law of Love), I’m good to go.
I’ve studied and studied.
Why isn’t it enough?
I deeply seek God’s confirmation on what to do. To show me his truth and let me know WHAT that truth is.
I realize you’ve found the truth in the Catholic church.
Where is the confirmation for me that the CC just isn’t another “denomination”, that what she says is true and that her interpretations of scripture are correct.
To make things worse, If the CC is correct, I’m in mortal sin because of their “binding” (will discuss via PM if anyone is interested). If the CC is not right, I’m A-OK.
There’s a lot at stake here you see.
But, if I rely solely on Christ’s work on the cross (and repent, believe, am baptized, and obey Christ’s Law of Love), I’m good to go.
T
TOP
Guest
God seems to always give us a choice doesn’t He. Tim
V
Verita
Guest
When I decided to convert, I still didn’t have all the answers. But I had become convinced of one thing: the Catholic Church is the only Church that Jesus founded. This means that the Catholic Church alone has the God-given authority structure (for lack of a better term) that Jesus created (Peter as the head of the Church or Pope, Apostles as the Bishops), and the only one that His promise of being led into all truth was passed on to. It is the only Church that He promised the gates of Hell would not prevail against, the only one where the keys of the kingdom are kept. I came to believe this for many reasons. History was one major factor, specifically the continuity of the Church throughout history. I recognized the need for such a Church, such an authority. I was confronted time and again with instances in which the Church interpreted the Bible in ways that made incredible sense and in context.
Still, I didn’t have much knowledge of what the Church taught in many areas. But I recognized what the Church was. Because of that I took a leap of faith. I realized that if the Church is all of those things I stated above, then I had to submit to the authority of the Church as I would submit to God himself. I had to accept what the Church taught whether it felt right or not. I still felt freaked out by Mary and the Saints and I didn’t really understand Catholic views on Salvation yet.
But after I made that decision to submit to the Church, I began to receive extraordinary revelations every day. The research I did into the Bible and the Catechism and the writings of the Early Fathers confirmed my decision again and again. I read Hail, Holy Queen by Scott Hahn and gained a new appreciation of Mary. I read The Lamb’s Supper by Hahn and was completely blown away by the Mass as sacrifice. The writings of the Fathers astounded me. I had no idea such wealth existed before. And everything made so much sense.
But only once I had submitted in faith to the Church. Sometimes that’s what you have to do.
Still, I didn’t have much knowledge of what the Church taught in many areas. But I recognized what the Church was. Because of that I took a leap of faith. I realized that if the Church is all of those things I stated above, then I had to submit to the authority of the Church as I would submit to God himself. I had to accept what the Church taught whether it felt right or not. I still felt freaked out by Mary and the Saints and I didn’t really understand Catholic views on Salvation yet.
But after I made that decision to submit to the Church, I began to receive extraordinary revelations every day. The research I did into the Bible and the Catechism and the writings of the Early Fathers confirmed my decision again and again. I read Hail, Holy Queen by Scott Hahn and gained a new appreciation of Mary. I read The Lamb’s Supper by Hahn and was completely blown away by the Mass as sacrifice. The writings of the Fathers astounded me. I had no idea such wealth existed before. And everything made so much sense.
But only once I had submitted in faith to the Church. Sometimes that’s what you have to do.
D
djrakowski
Guest
Have you prayed to the Holy Spirit to show you the way? Have you tried to set aside your preferences and openly seek the direction of God? Trust me, it can be scary to lay aside all you know in search of the truth, but it is well worth it. And I, for one, am with you regardless of where this search takes you.
Yes, that’s right. We have found the truth in the Catholic Church. And if that’s the case, then it stands to reason that no other church can measure up. At best, all other churches can lay claim to only a portion of the truth (and are to be lauded for the truths they do teach).
Denominations are, by definition, broken off from the whole. The churches of the Reformation didn’t exist before the Reformation, and only those churches are called denominations, because they chose to make a break from the Catholic Church. They started teaching doctrines that were never taught before in the history of the Church, such as sola scriptura and sola fide.
If the Catholic Church is not the true church, then those who claim otherwise must offer definitive proof that their version of Christianity is the one taught by the apostles and handed down to the present day. Unfortunately, none of them can.
Mortal sin has three components: 1. grave matter, 2. full knowledge, and 3. full consent. Since you do not yet believe and have knowledge that the Catholic Church is Christ’s one true church, you are not in mortal sin. You are only in mortal sin if you fully believe that the Catholic Church has the authority it claims, and still reject it.
But, which church has the right to define what constitutes the gospel? To whom do you turn when you find a matter of dispute between two Christians? The Bible, as you rightly pointed out earlier, can be interpreted in a multitude of very clever ways. But, obviously, not everyone who interprets the Bible is doing so correctly (or else all Christians would truly be one, as Jesus intended).
If you rely solely upon Christ’s work on the cross (which we also do as Catholics), then you need to consider everything else Christ did and said.
Do you believe that Christ gave authority to a church for teaching, interpretation, binding, and forgiveness?
D
djrakowski
Guest
Verita is 100% correct - the issue of authority is the most important issue in deciding whether to convert to Catholicism. Once it has been established that the Church has authority, then there’s only one response - and that is, to submit to that authority.
If you go down the list and try to pick apart every seemingly objectionable teaching of the Church, you may be here until the end of time. But if you accept the authority of the Church to bind and loose, then you will accept these doctrines on that basis, as I did.
(excellent post, Verita!)
If you go down the list and try to pick apart every seemingly objectionable teaching of the Church, you may be here until the end of time. But if you accept the authority of the Church to bind and loose, then you will accept these doctrines on that basis, as I did.
(excellent post, Verita!)
J
JimR-OCDS
Guest
Follow the two commandments Jesus gave us.
12:30. And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart and with thy whole soul and with thy whole mind and with thy whole strength. This is the first commandment.
12:31. And the second is like to it: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is no other commandment greater than these. Mark 12:30-31
Jim
M
MariaG
Guest
Have you ever tried a Novena?
I have friends who have asked God repeatedly for direction. It was not until they followed the example that Christ gave that their answer finally became clear. And then it was extremely clear and they could “see” where God had been talking to them all along.
Your sister in Christ,
Maria
M
MariaG
Guest
That is an excellent point.
I did not understand completely or necessarily agree with the Catholic Church on every issue. But I had become convinced of the Catholic Churches right to “make and change the rules” through scripture.
My walk with Christ was like this. I came to believe in the bible 100% and in Christ. It went hand in hand. Through Scripture, I came to believe in the authority of the Catholic Church. It was then that I could “see” the truth in the teachings of the Catholic Church as I delved into them.
God Bless,
Maria
D
djrakowski
Guest
Here’s another point I mentioned in an earlier post, but I think it may’ve been lost in all my wordiness.
It was the Catholic Church who, over the centuries, took care to translate, preserve, and canonize the various works of early Christian literature into what we now know as the Bible. If the Catholic Church is to be trusted in the process of canonizing the Bible, then why is it not to be trusted in interpreting it?
It was the Catholic Church who, over the centuries, took care to translate, preserve, and canonize the various works of early Christian literature into what we now know as the Bible. If the Catholic Church is to be trusted in the process of canonizing the Bible, then why is it not to be trusted in interpreting it?
I
irishmac
Guest
Gracelife, I will pray for the Holy Spirit to descend upon you and show you the way. But, if you consider that the Lord works in mysterious ways, the charitable and caring manner in which these posters have spoken with you, showing you the way, is indicative of the Holy Spirit coming to you, through these good children of God who are letting Christ work through them. Consider that and have peace that, maybe, if you can resign yourself, the Holy Spirit is already working for you.
Dominus vobsicum!
Dominus vobsicum!
G
gracelife
Guest
My head is spinning. Thank you for your patience.
That’s like saying, if I were Catholic, I’d be in mortal sin until this was fixed. (Tried confession a couple years ago, priest couldn’t absolve me). But, if I don’t hold to the CC authority, I’m not in mortal sin?
Yes, I have gone to Eucharistic Adoration prayed and begged for confirmation regarding these things. One way or the other.
Thank you. That means a lot to me. It has been a struggle.
When this thing happened, I didn’t know it was wrong, but I did do it. It is grave matter according to CC. Now I know what the CC expected of me. (background: baptized and confirmed in CC). Is that sin then “retroactive” even if I do not fully believe the CC claim to authority.
That’s like saying, if I were Catholic, I’d be in mortal sin until this was fixed. (Tried confession a couple years ago, priest couldn’t absolve me). But, if I don’t hold to the CC authority, I’m not in mortal sin?
Scripture defines the basics as this post started with of what we need believe.
It is sad that there is not the unity. That is one key thing that prompted by “search”. But we do have unity in professing Christ and what he has done for us. That is the core. Do the other things matter?
Could be, but I’m not sure.
G
gracelife
Guest
G
gracelife
Guest
My “gut” reply:
Because of all the other “side” issues (discussed above) that they have allowed to distract from the central teaching of salvation … because of the scars of CC history … because some of the things they bind in canon law seem like something the Pharisees would do/say…
So I ask,can they be trusted?
Does their fruit show me they are the one true church?
I know you don’t see them as side issues but as “completing”. Maria, said it well earlier, I don’t remember her exact wording, but it was beautifully said.
This scripture also comes to mind: Isaiah 40:7-8
You see, I KNOW I trust his word. I’m not sure I can trust the church.
I realize you trust the scriptures too.
G
gracelife
Guest
UGh! And then this comes to mind? 
Sorry.
Can the church improve on what Christ has already done?
If Jesus took care of it for us (from the start of this thread)
Why do I need the Catholic church?
Sorry.Can the church improve on what Christ has already done?
If Jesus took care of it for us (from the start of this thread)
Why do I need the Catholic church?
D
djrakowski
Guest
Absolutely no problem. Again, all for the greater glory of God :bowdown2:
Believe me, I know, and that’s why I’ve offered to help.
If you don’t accept the authority of the Catholic Church, then you don’t need to worry. In this case, you don’t ‘know’ that the Catholic Church has the authority to bind and forgive, and therefore, the sin is not mortal for you. And at the time, you didn’t know it was a mortal sin, so you’re not responsible, based on the second condition of full knowledge. Rest easy, my friend
By the way, were you still Catholic at the time you tried to confess that sin? I wonder what reason a priest had to deny you absolution
Where does scripture define the basics? This is a very important issue for Protestants, because nowhere in scripture is there a list of doctrines that are essential and must be believed, and those that are not essential, and can be disputed. After all, “man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD.” (Deut. 8:3).
Furthermore, scripture doesn’t even define in itself what is to be considered scripture. It took the councils of the Catholic Church, guided infallibly by the Holy Spirit, to define what should and should not be contained within scripture. Otherwise, you’re left with, as Calvinist preacher RC Sproul says, “a fallible collection of infallble books.” I don’t know how anyone can hold to that belief and remain a Christian (but that’s just me).
There’s nothing in God’s word that doesn’t matter. And, we do not have unity in professing Christ if we profess different doctrines, because doctrines do matter (Matthew 5:18-19, Ephesians 4:14, 1 Timothy 1:2-4, 10, 4:1-16, 6:3, 2 Timothy 4:3, Titus 1:9, 2:1-10, Hebrews 13:9, 2 Peter 2:1, 2 John 1:9-10). There’s nothing to indicate that division is good (John 17:11-21).
Nothing in scripture points to a list of essential vs. non-essential doctrine - it all points to the importance of every word that comes from the mouth of God. It isn’t really unity if there’s disagreement on doctrine, which is the case even amongst different branches of Protestantism (even wildly so).
God Bless,
Dan
G
gracelife
Guest
Gotta run. Will be back. For now, please keep me in prayer.
Again, thank you for your time. I’m listening.
It’s been quite the day!
Again, thank you for your time. I’m listening.
It’s been quite the day!
D
djrakowski
Guest
I think I know what you mean by “fruits,” but can it be said that Protestantism is without its sordid episodes? Look at the history of Europe immediately following the Reformation, and you’ll see that violence and checkered histories are not unique to Catholicism (and I’m not denying that we have plenty of blame to accept, as well).
What does it mean that Peter had the authority to bind and loose? If that’s true (and it is scriptural), then how can any dispute in doctrine be tolerated?
You may think some of the things bound in canon law and Church teaching sound Pharasaical, but there are good (and scriptural) reasons for all of them. If you want to discuss particular issues, feel free to email or PM me about them. I will show you how they not only distract from the message of salvation, but indeed, protect and enhance it.
But you don’t know you can trust the word without someone telling you so. Self-referencing arguments for truth are self-defeating, because they beg the question, on whose authority? Why do you believe the Bible? You can’t say, 'because it says it is the word of God," because the Koran and Book of Mormon make that claim, too. You can’t say, ‘because it is verified in history,’ because then your trust is placed in the secular world. There’s only one reason to trust the Bible - and that is on the authority of Christ’s Church, the one that was responsible for translating, protecting, canonizing and disseminating it. I’ll ask again: how can you trust the Bible if you don’t trust the Church responsible for bringing it to you?
Yes, I do… but not as the ultimate authority. Even scripture denies that scripture is the ultimate authority (1 Timothy 3:15, 1 Thessalonians 2:15, John 20:30, John 21:25).I realize you trust the scriptures too.
No, the Church cannot improve upon what Christ has done (and it does not claim to do so), but only make it present to the world (which happens at the celebration of the Eucharist in every Catholic Mass). Christ ordered the Church in this way for the salvation of souls, and he didn’t say that there are things on which we could disagree.UGh! And then this comes to mind?
Can the church improve on what Christ has already done?
If Jesus took care of it for us (from the start of this thread)
Why do I need the Catholic church?
- Status