What my Priest told me in Confession-this cant be right can it!?

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an internet forum isn’t the place for a layperson to decide if a priest is giving bad advice in the confessional ,there are too many nuances and details left out for anyone to have an accurate take. this thread is an example,the op past posts indicate and the op has confirmed in those said posts a tendency to scrupulosity .the only appropriate responce is
porthos11 said:
First of all, given your scrupulous posting patterns, it is imperative that you believe and obey your confessor unconditionally. Do not second-guess him, and especially do not seek out second opinions from strangers on the Internet as the variety of answers, a lot of which could easily be wrong will not do anything for your scrupulosity

.

As for his comments, he probably only asked you to confess the kind and not the number because he deems your sins to be venial, which do not require confession in number. And yes, one must avoid the voluntary near occasion of sin; that’s part of firm resolve not to sin again.
porthos11;10763171:
I would suggest that for this particular poster, say nothing that could be construed as contradicting her confessor. At this point (and you can review her posts), her scrupulosity is at a really bad place and she should not be subjected to anything that can potentially confuse her. She has only one authority in matters of sin: her confessor and no one else.
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I agree though, that it’s highly unlikely that sitting next to a boy in a public place like a classroom constitutes a near occasion of sin for anyone. I’m even willing to bet that the what she thinks of as “sins” are not sins at all. But again, this is for her to discuss with her confessor, not here.
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Putting oneself (or remaining) deliberately in a near occasion of *mortal *sin - can yes be a sin (Iike for example a person knows that they will commit Y mortal sin if they go to P and willie nillie go to P). It depends on what it is and on ones reasons one is in it etc. There can be very good reason to do so …(like a police officer doing his duty etc).

Occasions to venial sins – well are all around us. So unless your going to put yourself into deep sleep and be shot out into space - they are going to not so easily avoided. But of course as one works on oneself one identifies what leads them into a particular venial sin they are working on and can thus work on such better.

As to numbers – if one confesses venial sins (one is not obliged to do so but it is good to confess some venial sins) --one does not have to give any number. One can even be rather general even as to the kind. But if one wishes one may add numbers for venial sins. Or give general numbers.

For *mortal *sins one is to give the number.

Anyone who struggles with scruple say - they might do better not to mention numbers for venial sins. Their confessor can guide them. They are to have a regular confessor to direct them in their difficulties.
 
It is the province of the confessor to determine whether or not one has committed a serious sin.
 
Putting oneself (or remaining) deliberately in a near occasion of *mortal *sin - can yes be a sin (Iike for example a person knows that they will commit Y mortal sin if they go to P and willie nillie go to P). It depends on what it is and on ones reasons one is in it etc. There can be very good reason to do so …(like a police officer doing his duty etc).

A person with a difficulty with scruples - may be seeing sins and near occasions of sin where they are NOT or seeing venial sins as mortal sins. They need to have a regular confessor whom the obey in all that is not manifest sin (like go murder my secretary). He might tell them -such and such is not a sin or it is not sinful for you to be in such and such occasion etc – they path for them there is obedience. For their compass is “off” at the time.

Occasions to venial sins – well are all around us. So unless your going to put yourself into deep sleep and be shot out into space - they are going to not so easily avoided. But of course as one works on oneself one identifies what leads them into a particular venial sin they are working on and can thus work on such better.

As to numbers – if one confesses venial sins (one is not obliged to do so but it is good to confess some venial sins) --one does not have to give any number. One can even be rather general even as to the kind. But if one wishes one may add numbers for venial sins. Or give general numbers.

For *mortal *sins one is to give the number.

Now there could be cases of scrupulosity where the person wants to confess all sorts of un-needed things etc …starts to fear mortal sins where they are not…their confessor may need to direct them --some scrupulosity can be very severe. They may be in a “different boat” due to their scrupulosity. Cases can vary largely.

That being said often what could be advised by their confessor could be to examine for certain mortal sin and confess only what is a certain mortal sin (with numbers --approximating if needed). Not directly mentioning doubtful things. And then picking a few venial sins.

“So I accuse myself of murder 2x (for I am certain it was mortal) and I committed some lies and I stole a piece of candy and all my other sins…”

And anyone who struggles with scruple say - they might do better not to mention numbers for venial sins. Their confessor can guide them. They are to have a regular confessor to direct them in their difficulties.
 
april32010 said:
It is the province of the confessor to determine whether or not one has committed a serious sin.
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For a person with scruples yes the regular confessor is of great importance in helping them in such matters. As I outlined above. For their compass is off. They need a *regular confessor *to guide them.

And even for other penitents they may be not sure about a matter and need to ask the Priest – would it be a sin if to do such and such or I am not sure if this was a mortal sin and need some guidance…(and the Priest in confession is a “judge” along with his other roles).

But it is to be noted for general readers — that it is the province of the penitent to examine their conscience and accuse themselves of any mortal sins.

Yes a person with scrupulosity may need *very specific direction from their confessor *on their confessions and their examinations. (see above). For their compass can be rather off. Cases too will vary.
 
Bookcat said:
Putting oneself (or remaining) deliberately in a near occasion of *mortal *sin - can yes be a sin (Iike for example a person knows that they will commit Y mortal sin if they go to P and willie nillie go to P). It depends on what it is and on ones reasons one is in it etc. There can be very good reason to do so …(like a police officer doing his duty etc).

A person with a difficulty with scruples - may be seeing sins and near occasions of sin where they are NOT or seeing venial sins as mortal sins. They need to have a regular confessor whom the obey in all that is not manifest sin (like go murder my secretary). He might tell them -such and such is not a sin or it is not sinful for you to be in such and such occasion etc – they path for them there is obedience. For their compass is “off” at the time.

Occasions to venial sins – well are all around us. So unless your going to put yourself into deep sleep and be shot out into space - they are going to not so easily avoided. But of course as one works on oneself one identifies what leads them into a particular venial sin they are working on and can thus work on such better.

As to numbers – if one confesses venial sins (one is not obliged to do so but it is good to confess some venial sins) --one does not have to give any number. One can even be rather general even as to the kind. But if one wishes one may add numbers for venial sins. Or give general numbers.

For *mortal *sins one is to give the number.

Now there could be cases of scrupulosity where the person wants to confess all sorts of un-needed things etc …starts to fear mortal sins where they are not…their confessor may need to direct them --some scrupulosity can be very severe. They may be in a “different boat” due to their scrupulosity. Cases can vary largely.

That being said often what could be advised by their confessor could be to examine for certain mortal sin and confess only what is a certain mortal sin (with numbers --approximating if needed). Not directly mentioning doubtful things. And then picking a few venial sins.

“So I accuse myself of murder 2x (for I am certain it was mortal) and I committed some lies and I stole a piece of candy and all my other sins…”

And anyone who struggles with scruple say - they might do better not to mention numbers for venial sins. Their confessor can guide them. They are to have a regular confessor to direct them in their difficulties.
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Presumably, the original poster’s confessor knows all this and is taking this into account when he advises her. Therefore, the same principle still applies: she must obey her confessor no matter what. If Father says do not mention the number, that’s that. I would also presume that if Father hears a definite mortal sin, he will interrupt and ask: “How many times?” Till then, obedience, obedience, obedience. There is no other way to get relief from scrupulosity.
 
Ok well he told me it didnt matter even if it was mortal, the number is not needed. His words not mine! Now what!?!
 
MaeganFlinchum1 said:
Ok well he told me it didnt matter even if it was mortal, the number is not needed. His words not mine! Now what!?!
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Obey him. Why do you still ask? Obey him and do not question him. Obey him UNCONDITIONALLY. He will be the one to judge whether what you’re confessing is mortal or not.

If you keep coming back here second-guessing your confessor you will never find peace.
 
porthos11 said:
Obey him. Why do you still ask? Obey him and do not question him. Obey him UNCONDITIONALLY. He will be the one to judge whether what you’re confessing is mortal or not.

If you keep coming back here second-guessing your confessor you will never find peace.
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Ok!
 
MaeganFlinchum1 said:
Ok well he told me it didnt matter even if it was mortal, the number is not needed. His words not mine! Now what!?!
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The divine law is that the confession be formally integral. (This is different than materially integral which means absolutely every serious sin comitted). Integral means you confess all the serious sins committed from your baptism that you remembered. ( In the eastern Catholic canon law one does not see kind and number mentioned, only integral is mentioned.) Sometimes is it permitted to confess without the number or even not at all (such as when physically or materially impossible to do so). Also a priest may not understand exactly what you mean sometimes, but nevertheless you have accused yourself before the priest and have contrition (perfect or imperfect), intend to not repeat the sins, and receive the absolution.
 
Zekariya said:
One only needs to say the number with mortal sins. Accidentally/ignorantly not saying the number does not invalidate the confession. I have no idea about choosing to not say the number. The priest should ask for the number if the penitent does not say it. Remember that the number is only required for mortal sins. If the priest tells you to not say the number again, ask him why. He might have a good reason for saying that. 🙂
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i only recently heard about this number thing; and have never done it. i have never thought of counting my sins and no priest has ever asked me for the number. in an early confession - i am a recently returned catholic - i didn’t know how specific i should be concerning sex so i just alot of sex and like alot of kinds of sex. the priest did not ask for details.
 
MaeganFlinchum1 said:
In my last Confession my priest told me it is not a sin to put myself on an o ccasion of sin.and he also told me i just have to confess the ‘kind’ of sin not the number. For example: if i have been prideful 7 times i just go to Confession and confess: ive been prideful. And thats it. Is that right?i dont enjoy not trusting my confessor, but i have always heard u hav to confess number and kind (not just number) and u hav to avoid all near occasions of sin.
Thanks!
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The priest is wrong, you must confess number and kind. As for near occasion of sin, it can be a sin, if you place yourself willingly, knowing that it is, in that near occasion of sin. Repeatedly placing yourself, again willingly and knowingly, in occasions of sin is sinful as well.
 
JuantheTuba said:
The priest is wrong, you must confess number and kind. As for near occasion of sin, it can be a sin, if you place yourself willingly, knowing that it is, in that near occasion of sin. Repeatedly placing yourself, again willingly and knowingly, in occasions of sin is sinful as well.
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Again, for the sake of the original poster, this particular original poster, who has a severe case of scruples, PLEASE DO NOT CONTRADICT her confessor!!!

To the OP, Maegan: THIS is an example of why you should not be posting your questions on these forums. You will only get a whole mix of answers from total strangers who do not know you or the difficulties you’re going through. Your priest does. Listen ONLY to your priest. He is NOT wrong.
 
JuantheTuba said:
The priest is wrong
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No!

You have probably not read the whole thread. The OP is scrupulous. The only advice is for her to listen to her confessor and follow his instructions. Those instructions are not intended for other people – especially total strangers on an Internet forum. But they are intended for her.
 
JuantheTuba said:
The priest is wrong, you must confess number and kind. As for near occasion of sin, it can be a sin, if you place yourself willingly, knowing that it is, in that near occasion of sin. Repeatedly placing yourself, again willingly and knowingly, in occasions of sin is sinful as well.
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I back up listening to her confessor. He could be wrong yes but that isn’t up to the person confessing. For situations like you have with the op if there is ever a situation where you have conflicting reports or something that doesn’t sit right have a trusted priest who knows you maybe better then your spouse parents or friends, like having a spiritual director who you tell everything to. If a priest says something to you aren’t sure about go to your spiritual director he will settle it and should become the deciding factor in all instances.
 
catholictiger said:
I back up listening to her confessor. He could be wrong yes but that isn’t up to the person confessing. For situations like you have with the op if there is ever a situation where you have conflicting reports or something that doesn’t sit right have a trusted priest who knows you maybe better then your spouse parents or friends, like having a spiritual director who you tell everything to. If a priest says something to you aren’t sure about go to your spiritual director he will settle it and should become the deciding factor in all instances.
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Not just that, but we’re insulated by the OP both by the forum itself as well as space, that is, we do not know her as well as her confessor. Further, we do not know her confessor, which means it is for us to always presume he knows what he’s doing, and from what I see with my limited vision, he’s doing the right thing for this particular penitent, the OP.

This reinforced the need for scrupulous people like the OP to just stop asking “this this a sin” type questions on these forums and stick solely to her confessor. The priest is NOT wrong; it’s just that he knows better than the OP herself, hence, his instructions.

This is most likely because Maegan’s scrupulosity is actually rendering her unable to properly discern mortal sin, causing her to see it where none exists or where it’s only venial. I can easily see that the priest is not telling Maegan to break Church law, but rather, he sees that she is NOT guilty of mortal sin at all despite her protests to the contrary. That’s why the post above that just declared the priest “wrong” was imprudent and potentially spiritually harmful for the OP, because no matter what, the only proper advice for her is, again, obey, obey and obey her confessor unconditionally.
 
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