What new revelation does the holy Koran contain?

[openmind77]

Recently there was a thread about whether we can understand Islam by studying the holy Koran alone. We probably cannot, but I would still like to understand the Koran better.

I have not studied the Koran that much, I have read parts of it, but I don’t see anything unique or special about it (other than apparently being a great piece of literature). Rather than adding to our knowledge of divinity, it seems to be like a step backwards - it denies the trinitarian nature of God and also has some silly description of heaven with plenty of wine and freely available women.

It would be great if our Muslim friends (or anyone else who knows) could explain to me what unique knowledge of divinity and the purpose of life/salvation etc is contained in the Koran (which is not already there in the Bible).

The Bahai are of course welcome to contribute also but lets stick to the Koran and not talk about Bahaullah. (Also please no talk about the violence in the Koran, I think there is just as much violence in the OT).

 

[TonyBS]

Recently there was a thread about whether we can understand Islam by studying the holy Koran alone. We probably cannot, but I would still like to understand the Koran better.

I have not studied the Koran that much, I have read parts of it, but I don’t see anything unique or special about it (other than apparently being a great piece of literature). Rather than adding to our knowledge of divinity, it seems to be like a step backwards - it denies the trinitarian nature of God and also has some silly description of heaven with plenty of wine and freely available women.

It would be great if our Muslim friends (or anyone else who knows) could explain to me what unique knowledge of divinity and the purpose of life/salvation etc is contained in the Koran (which is not already there in the Bible).

The Bahai are of course welcome to contribute also but lets stick to the Koran and not talk about Bahaullah. (Also please no talk about the violence in the Koran, I think there is just as much violence in the OT).

The Koran has to be read in comjuncrion with the Understanding of The Station and Mission of Muhammad.

To me the purpose of Muhammad was to Unite mankind and give them the ability to do this by the step of Nation Building.

It also was required to correct mistakes that were creeping into mans knowledge of God.

I find it very relevant to The age it was revealed.

Regards Tony

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

The Koran has to be read in comjuncrion with the Understanding of The Station and Mission of Muhammad.

To me the purpose of Muhammad was to Unite mankind and give them the ability to do this by the step of Nation Building.

It also was required to correct mistakes that were creeping into mans knowledge of God.

I find it very relevant to The age it was revealed.

Regards Tony

What mistakes did the Quran correct?

 

[TonyBS]

What mistakes did the Quran correct?

Please consider this is not to become a debate as to the merits of the corrections, but to acknowledge they are there.

Thus please start another thread if you wish to debate the reply on any of the Koran Passages posted here. As it is known a Christian will not agree.

Muhammad stated in the Koran that Christianity had started making an incorrect interpretation of the Station of Christ by revealing;

“People of the Book, do not go to excess in your religion, and do not say anything about God except the truth: the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was nothing more than a messenger of God, His word, directed to Mary, a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers and do not speak of a ‘Trinity’—stop, that is better for you—God is only one God, He is far above having a son, everything in the heavens and earth belongs to Him and He is the best one to trust”. Qur’an, sura 4 (An-Nisa), ayat 17

It is important to know this “The term “People of the Book” in the Qur’an refers to followers of monotheistic Abrahamic religions that are older than Islam. This includes all Christians, all Children of Israel (including Jews, Karaites and Samaritans), and Sabians”.

It is also important to balance this Passage with others about the ‘Station’ of Jesus the Christ.

I repeat, there will be no debate of this subject. It is a Revelation contained within the Koran, that 622 odd years after Christianity, did indeed become 'New Revelation".

Regards Tony

 

[meltzerboy]

Please consider this is not to become a debate as to the merits of the corrections, but to acknowledge they are there.

Thus please start another thread if you wish to debate the reply on any of the Koran Passages posted here. As it is known a Christian will not agree.

Muhammad stated in the Koran that Christianity had started making an incorrect interpretation of the Station of Christ by revealing;

“People of the Book, do not go to excess in your religion, and do not say anything about God except the truth: the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was nothing more than a messenger of God, His word, directed to Mary, a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers and do not speak of a ‘Trinity’—stop, that is better for you—God is only one God, He is far above having a son, everything in the heavens and earth belongs to Him and He is the best one to trust”. Qur’an, sura 4 (An-Nisa), ayat 17

It is important to know this “The term “People of the Book” in the Qur’an refers to followers of monotheistic Abrahamic religions that are older than Islam. This includes all Christians, all Children of Israel (including Jews, Karaites and Samaritans), and Sabians”.

It is also important to balance this Passage with others about the ‘Station’ of Jesus the Christ.

I repeat, there will be no debate of this subject. It is a Revelation contained within the Koran, that 622 odd years after Christianity, did indeed become 'New Revelation".

Regards Tony

How is this important point then not a continuation of Judaism? What does Islam and the prophet Muhammad add to Judaism apart from the Messiahship of Jesus, which is interpreted differently from that of Christianity? Even the dietary laws are quite similar.

 

[drac16]

It brought man back to the central doctrine of Tawheed, which was taught by all the Prophets. There needed to be a final revelation because man largely strayed away from Tawheed. Tawheed is the concept that says that God is a single Divine person and that He is completely dissimilar to His creation. He has no physical likeness and nothing is equal to Him. Surah 112 says: “Say: ‘He is Allah, the One and Only’. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him”.

The purpose of life that the Qur’an gives is to worship Allah. In Surah 51:56, Allah says “I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me”. Worship encompasses everything, though. The Qur’an talks about people who remember Allah standing up, sitting down and lying down (i.e. at all times). Worship includes the five pillars of Islam, but we’re commanded to seek Allah’s Countenance-- to do all things in remembrance of Him, for His pleasure.

We sufis have a teaching known as ‘fana’ and it means ‘annihilation’. Not annihilation of the body-- it’s the annihilation of the ego. A devotee reaches fana when he/she renounces worldly pleasures and does all things, even down to bathroom etiquette, for the sake of Allah. Fana is achievable in this lifetime, as is seen throughout history (saintly individuals have come and gone throughout the ages). Moreover, each muslim [whether sufi nor not] seeks to develop ‘Ihsan’, which is to worship Allah as if you see Him.

 

[TonyBS]

It brought man back to the central doctrine of Tawheed, which was taught by all the Prophets. There needed to be a final revelation because man largely strayed away from Tawheed. Tawheed is the concept that says that God is a single Divine person and that He is completely dissimilar to His creation. He has no physical likeness and nothing is equal to Him. Surah 112 says: “Say: ‘He is Allah, the One and Only’. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him”.

The purpose of life that the Qur’an gives is to worship Allah. In Surah 51:56, Allah says “I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me”. Worship encompasses everything, though. The Qur’an talks about people who remember Allah standing up, sitting down and lying down (i.e. at all times). Worship includes the five pillars of Islam, but we’re commanded to seek Allah’s Countenance-- to do all things in remembrance of Him, for His pleasure.

We sufis have a teaching known as ‘fana’ and it means ‘annihilation’. Not annihilation of the body-- it’s the annihilation of the ego. A devotee reaches fana when he/she renounces worldly pleasures and does all things, even down to bathroom etiquette, for the sake of Allah. Fana is achievable in this lifetime, as is seen throughout history (saintly individuals have come and gone throughout the ages). Moreover, each muslim [whether sufi nor not] seeks to develop ‘Ihsan’, which is to worship Allah as if you see Him.

Thank you drac16 - Yes this is wonderful,thank you for your response, very heart warming

Regards Tony

 

[openmind77]

Please consider this is not to become a debate as to the merits of the corrections, but to acknowledge they are there.

Thus please start another thread if you wish to debate the reply on any of the Koran Passages posted here. As it is known a Christian will not agree.

Muhammad stated in the Koran that Christianity had started making an incorrect interpretation of the Station of Christ by revealing;

“People of the Book, do not go to excess in your religion, and do not say anything about God except the truth: the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was nothing more than a messenger of God, His word, directed to Mary, a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers and do not speak of a ‘Trinity’—stop, that is better for you—God is only one God, He is far above having a son, everything in the heavens and earth belongs to Him and He is the best one to trust”. Qur’an, sura 4 (An-Nisa), ayat 17

It is important to know this “The term “People of the Book” in the Qur’an refers to followers of monotheistic Abrahamic religions that are older than Islam. This includes all Christians, all Children of Israel (including Jews, Karaites and Samaritans), and Sabians”.

It is also important to balance this Passage with others about the ‘Station’ of Jesus the Christ.

I repeat, there will be no debate of this subject. It is a Revelation contained within the Koran, that 622 odd years after Christianity, did indeed become 'New Revelation".

Regards Tony

So what you are saying is that main value of the Koran is that it says that the Christ was not a God and that he should not be worshipped? That does not sound like a very useful revelation, even if it was true (which I don’t agree - the Christ was definitely a ‘Son’ of God).

 

[TonyBS]

So what you are saying is that main value of the Koran is that it says that the Christ was not a God and that he should not be worshipped? That does not sound like a very useful revelation, even if it was true (which I don’t agree - the Christ was definitely a ‘Son’ of God).

No that is not a correct interpretation of what I said or what the Koran Says. It was forewarning that making Christ God would shut out the recognition of Muhammad.

The Koran is clear to me that it says Muhammad and Jesus both revealed God to mankind in Perfect Harmony of 'Station" and “Word”.

This does take some detachment in prior learning and for us to look with the purpose of knowing there is only “One God”.

Regards Tony

 

[openmind77]

It brought man back to the central doctrine of Tawheed, which was taught by all the Prophets. There needed to be a final revelation because man largely strayed away from Tawheed. Tawheed is the concept that says that God is a single Divine person and that He is completely dissimilar to His creation. He has no physical likeness and nothing is equal to Him. Surah 112 says: “Say: ‘He is Allah, the One and Only’. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him”.

So the main contribution of the Koran is denying the Trinitarian nature of God and that Jesus in not the ‘Son’? That God is separate from his Creation, eternal, not begotten is already there in the Bible.

The purpose of life that the Qur’an gives is to worship Allah. In Surah 51:56, Allah says “I have only created Jinns and men, that they may serve Me”. Worship encompasses everything, though. The Qur’an talks about people who remember Allah standing up, sitting down and lying down (i.e. at all times). Worship includes the five pillars of Islam, but we’re commanded to seek Allah’s Countenance-- to do all things in remembrance of Him, for His pleasure.

We sufis have a teaching known as ‘fana’ and it means ‘annihilation’. Not annihilation of the body-- it’s the annihilation of the ego. A devotee reaches fana when he/she renounces worldly pleasures and does all things, even down to bathroom etiquette, for the sake of Allah. Fana is achievable in this lifetime, as is seen throughout history (saintly individuals have come and gone throughout the ages). Moreover, each muslim [whether sufi nor not] seeks to develop ‘Ihsan’, which is to worship Allah as if you see Him.

The practices and techniques of worship by themselves don’t really add anything to knowledge about God or the purpose of life. There are many monks and even some lay people (Christians as well as non-Christians) who spend all their time contemplating God - that is not very new.

 

[openmind77]

No that is not a correct interpretation of what I said or what the Koran Says. It was forewarning that making Christ God would shut out the recognition of Muhammad.

The Koran is clear to me that it says Muhammad and Jesus both revealed God to mankind in Perfect Harmony of 'Station" and “Word”.

This does take some detachment in prior learning and for us to look with the purpose of knowing there is only “One God”.

Regards Tony

So purpose of the Koran or the revelation given to Muhammad was merely so that we would recognize Muhammad as a Prophet?

But the point is that the revelation does not seem to have much substance, so in fact we don’t learn anything new from Muhammad which we did not already know before. In fact we learn some incorrect stuff - like denying the Trinity, the incorrect description of heaven etc.

 

[Techno2000]

Which is it … Koran OR Quran

 

[TonyBS]

So purpose of the Koran or the revelation given to Muhammad was merely so that we would recognize Muhammad as a Prophet?

But the point is that the revelation does not seem to have much substance, so in fact we don’t learn anything new from Muhammad which we did not already know before. In fact we learn some incorrect stuff - like denying the Trinity, the incorrect description of heaven etc.

No it was given to unite barbarians from groups and tribes that could not contemplate Unity of thought and action.

It was a religion of Nation building and brought about great results in the Unity of Nations. If the Christians could have seen the God given purpose, then the world would be different.

But consider, it was not to happen, man was not ready and Prophesy in the Bible already knew we would not be ready.

regards Tony

 

[openmind77]

Which is it … Koran OR Quran

I think it is Qur’an or Koran - either will do.

 

[TonyBS]

I think it is Qur’an or Koran - either will do.

The Quran (/kɔːrˈɑːn/ kor-AHN; Arabic: القرآن al-qurʼān, literally meaning “the recitation”; also romanized Qur’an or Koran)

Regards Tony

 

[openmind77]

No it was given to unite barbarians from groups and tribes that could not contemplate Unity of thought and action.

It was a religion of Nation building and brought about great results in the Unity of Nations. If the Christians could have seen the God given purpose, then the world would be different.

But consider, it was not to happen, man was not ready and Prophesy in the Bible already knew we would not be ready.

regards Tony

Actually I agree with this. The purpose of Islam and the Koran was to unite and in fact ‘civilize’ the groups and tribes of Arabia. But I think it had no purpose or use beyond that land. Even Persia already had a well developed culture and civilization, it did not need Islam. In fact the introduction of Islam to Persia was a step back for the persian people and did not teach them anything new or useful.

As far world unity is concerned, Christianity serves that purpose just fine. Islam does not add anything (but actually takes some stuff away) - in other words although Islam was great for the Arabs, for everyone else it was a regression.

 

[Techno2000]

Why should we choose Muhammad over Jesus, Muhammad was not known for miracles.Jesus came loaded with miracles just to prove who he was.

 

[Dorothy]

Why should we choose Muhammad over Jesus, Muhammad was not known for miracles.Jesus came loaded with miracles just to prove who he was.

That is correct. Muhammad did not have signs and wonders.

 

[worldcitizen]

Why should we choose Muhammad over Jesus, Muhammad was not known for miracles.Jesus came loaded with miracles just to prove who he was.

Hi Techno,

One can’t believe in Muhammad over Jesus. Because to belive in Muhammad one must accept Jesus it’s mandatory.

As far as miracles are concerned. Muhammad was an illiterate man yet here we are 1400 years later still trying to understand a Book revealed to Him. How can an illiterate man produce a Book that can have 1.6 billion followers?

 

[drac16]

So the main contribution of the Koran is denying the Trinitarian nature of God and that Jesus in not the ‘Son’? That God is separate from his Creation, eternal, not begotten is already there in the Bible.

The practices and techniques of worship by themselves don’t really add anything to knowledge about God or the purpose of life. There are many monks and even some lay people (Christians as well as non-Christians) who spend all their time contemplating God - that is not very new.

Tawheed is more than disbelieving in Jesus as the second person of the Trinity. Tawheed not in the in the New Testament-- the opposite is there. Trinitarians believe that God died on a cross. The Old Testament says that God neither sleeps, nor slumbers, but in the book of Mark, Jesus is sleeping on a boat.

Believing that God died is the opposite of Tawheed, because people die. Allah is beyond death, so to say that He died is contrary to Tawheed.

Is Tawheed it in the Old Testament, though? that is debatable.