What new revelation does the holy Koran contain?

[Techno2000]

I’m beginning to see what these… Great New Revelations… are all about (drum roll)…UNITY… who cares about unity, the Catholic Church has a much greater Revelation…HEAVEN.

 

[TonyBS]

I’m beginning to see what these… Great New Revelations… are all about (drum roll)…UNITY… who cares about unity, the Catholic Church has a much greater Revelation…HEAVEN.

Ha ha what such a ludicrously silly statement.

You think Heaven does not contain Unity.

Regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

Why are you only concerned about this short little life, which is like a speck compared to Heaven ?

Are you under the impression that what you do in this life is not given account for?

Regards Tony

 

[Techno2000]

Ha ha what such a ludicrously silly statement.

You think Heaven does not contain Unity.

Regards Tony

Why that all you ever want to talk about.

 

[Techno2000]

You think Heaven does not contain Unity.

Regards Tony

This is fisrt time I have heard you talk about Heaven.

 

[Techno2000]

Ha ha what such a ludicrously silly statement.

You think Heaven does not contain Unity.

Regards Tony

You are using my words and twisting them.

 

[TonyBS]

Why that all you ever want to talk about.

The Koran buit us to Nations and Now we need to be United as Mankind.

“The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established”.

It is the next goal humanity has to reach.

Regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

You are using my words and twisting them.

I’m beginning to see what these… Great New Revelations… are all about (drum roll)…UNITY… who cares about unity, the Catholic Church has a much greater Revelation…HEAVEN.

What was twisted, or what did you really want to say.

I could understand if you do care about Unity.

Regards Tony

 

[Techno2000]

What was twisted, or what did you really want to say.

I could understand if you do care about Unity.

Regards Tony

“The only true Unity that there will be… is in Heaven”. #98Techno

“You think Heaven does not contain Unity”.#102 Tony

 

[Servant19]

Like I said we should welcome the guidance from God regarding how to run our political or social institutions.

However, I don’t believe any of the three above are Gods, so while we can examine their opinions and evaluate them, I don’t think we should take any of it as gospel truth.

I am no expert on such matters (government or social institutions) but religious books is not first place I would look for answers regarding them. As I said before, religion is about the nature of God, the purpose of life and means of personal salvation. For secular knowledge I prefer to look elsewhere.

If you are saying that value of the Koran is its advice on government and legal systems, I would say it is totally outdated today and I am not sure if it was ever very useful except for the Arabs of the seventh century.

Hi openmind,

Why, therefore, are you resisting the guidance given by God through Baha’u’llah?
What is it in your evaluation that suggests the guidance is not from God?

Religion has always had laws. These laws have evolved from its application to the physical human being in Judaism, to the spiritual human being and elements of community in Christianity, then the application of spiritual laws within society in Islam, to the application of spiritual laws to the global community in the Baha’i Faith.

Of course the Quranic laws for governance are outdated. Today the edifying laws of the Baha’i Faith are applicable in the world and they are far from outdated

.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Hi openmind,

Why, therefore, are you resisting the guidance given by God through Baha’u’llah?
What is it in your evaluation that suggests the guidance is not from God?

Religion has always had laws. These laws have evolved from its application to the physical human being in Judaism, to the spiritual human being and elements of community in Christianity, then the application of spiritual laws within society in Islam, to the application of spiritual laws to the global community in the Baha’i Faith.

Of course the Quranic laws for governance are outdated. Today the edifying laws of the Baha’i Faith are applicable in the world and they are far from outdated

.

That’s a very convenient statement but factually incorrect. Both Judaism and Christianity have societal laws that are applicable to the world. Besides you didn’t explain how a council of 9 men is better than a council of 5100+.

In addition, if this is your methodology, who’s to say next year there won’t be a greater revelation that outdated Baha’u’llah?

 

[openmind77]

Hi openmind,

Why, therefore, are you resisting the guidance given by God through Baha’u’llah?
What is it in your evaluation that suggests the guidance is not from God?

Religion has always had laws. These laws have evolved from its application to the physical human being in Judaism, to the spiritual human being and elements of community in Christianity, then the application of spiritual laws within society in Islam, to the application of spiritual laws to the global community in the Baha’i Faith.

Of course the Quranic laws for governance are outdated. Today the edifying laws of the Baha’i Faith are applicable in the world and they are far from outdated

.

I agree that the guidance of Bahaullah regarding unity of humanity and commonality between religions is good, but he is not the only one with these ideas. This thread is really about the usefulness of the Koran. The Koranic ideas of government and society (and putting mullahs in charge of everything) far from being useful is causing a lot of misery in the world (from Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq all the way to Pakistan - not to speak of Isis),

I think Bahaullah could have just skipped Islam and the Koran and based his whole religion on the NT. If he had done that, he would have lost nothing and in fact gained some better understanding of the Trinity. I think Muhammad although he may have been a Prophet, his mission was strictly for the Arabian peninsula and it is counter productive and regressive to use his teachings anywhere else. Of course, I still disagree that the Bab and Bahaullah represent in any way the Return of the Mahdi or the Christ - they are Prophets similar to Muhammad. Their message is good but not unique.

 

[Servant19]

That’s a very convenient statement but factually incorrect. Both Judaism and Christianity have societal laws that are applicable to the world. Besides you didn’t explain how a council of 9 men is better than a council of 5100+.

In addition, if this is your methodology, who’s to say next year there won’t be a greater revelation that outdated Baha’u’llah?

Where did I say that these statements were EXCLUSIVELY what the religions were about?
I appreciate all of them had societal laws, but let’s be honest, there are so many of the societal laws of Judaism and Christianity not practiced today at all, because society is unable to fathom making them applicable.

A Council of 9 democratically elected people, through secret ballot and zero electioneering is better than 5100 men because God explicitly revealed that the Authority of the 9 is binding and infallible, whereas I have yet to see the word “infallible” mentioned by Jesus for any institution created by His adherents.

Baha’u’llah has categorically stated that there will be no further Revelation from Hod for at least a thousand years from His Revelation, so it won’t happen.

However, God can do as He Wills, and if someone makes a claim, I would at least look at their claim…

.

 

[SyroMalankara]

A Council of 9 democratically elected people, through secret ballot and zero electioneering is better than 5100 men because God explicitly revealed that the Authority of the 9 is binding and infallible, whereas I have yet to see the word “infallible” mentioned by Jesus for any institution created by His adherents.

I’m more confused than ever. The Catholic Church claims infallibility comes directly from Christ for his Church in the Holy Spirit. The Catechism can tell you all the verses and history that relates to how and why.

Another reason why the claim makes no sense is that Christianity has always had many bishops in communion, Muhammad’s leadership regressed this a one man theocratic dictatorship. So even the Bahai claim makes Muhammad’s action seem further regressive, since there were ‘already "revealed’ more progressive than him.

Baha’u’llah has categorically stated that there will be no further Revelation from Hod for at least a thousand years from His Revelation, so it won’t happen.

Sure it can, 1000 spiritual years? Lunar Years? there’s lots of ways to interpret this.

However, God can do as He Wills, and if someone makes a claim, I would at least look at their claim…

Didn’t the Bab originally say in the 1800s that there would be no other revelation after him for a thousand years? Then suddenly the Bahaullah claim came?

 

[eddie_too]

almighty God is a Triune God. that is, One in Essence, but Three in Persons.

any attempt to unite mankind without acknowledging the true Nature and Existence of the Triune God will fail.

why would any one think or believe that the unity of mankind will be achieved by denying who God truly is?

that is why any group who tells us that God is not Triune can not be a group to listen to or follow. goodness can never come out of denying the True, Triune God.

it is also why it is pretty much pointless to discuss the unitey of mankind with groups and individuals who deny the Real, Triune Godhead. by their denial of God, they have already rendered any contributions they might make as error prone and likely to create division and animosity.

 

[Techno2000]

almighty God is a Triune God. that is, One in Essence, but Three in Persons.

any attempt to unite mankind without acknowledging the true Nature and Existence of the Triune God will fail.

why would any one think or believe that the unity of mankind will be achieved by denying who God truly is?

that is why any group who tells us that God is not Triune can not be a group to listen to or follow. goodness can never come out of denying the True, Triune God.

it is also why it is pretty much pointless to discuss the unitey of mankind with groups and individuals who deny the Real, Triune Godhead. by their denial of God, they have already rendered any contributions they might make as error prone and likely to create division and animosity.

They believe 1 person Bahá’u’lláh… is 8 people (Abraham, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, Báb)… but they don’t understand how God can be 3 persons.

 

[Servant19]

I agree that the guidance of Bahaullah regarding unity of humanity and commonality between religions is good, but he is not the only one with these ideas. This thread is really about the usefulness of the Koran. The Koranic ideas of government and society (and putting mullahs in charge of everything) far from being useful is causing a lot of misery in the world (from Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq all the way to Pakistan - not to speak of Isis),

I think Bahaullah could have just skipped Islam and the Koran and based his whole religion on the NT. If he had done that, he would have lost nothing and in fact gained some better understanding of the Trinity. I think Muhammad although he may have been a Prophet, his mission was strictly for the Arabian peninsula and it is counter productive and regressive to use his teachings anywhere else. Of course, I still disagree that the Bab and Bahaullah represent in any way the Return of the Mahdi or the Christ - they are Prophets similar to Muhammad. Their message is good but not unique.

Hi openmind.

Which Divine Teacher prior to the Bab and Baha’u’llah has talked about the unity of humanity and the commonality of all religions?

I think a brief study of history will reveal where Arabia was in terms of development and progress before Muhammad, and where it went for a century or two after Muhammad.
I think He brought a lot
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

.

 

[Servant19]

They believe 1 person Bahá’u’lláh… is 8 people (Abraham, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, Báb)… but they don’t understand how God can be 3 persons.

Not one Person, one Spirit (the Word) which manifests itself on earth in a human form, as attested in the Bible Techno.

1 Tim3:6 And evidently great is the mystery of godliness, which was manifested in the flesh, was justified in the spirit, appeared unto angels, hath been preached unto the Gentiles, is believed in the world, is taken up in glory.

2 Tim1:10 But is now made manifest by the illumination of our Saviour Jesus Christ…

.

 

[openmind77]

Hi openmind.

Which Divine Teacher prior to the Bab and Baha’u’llah has talked about the unity of humanity and the commonality of all religions?

I think a brief study of history will reveal where Arabia was in terms of development and progress before Muhammad, and where it went for a century or two after Muhammad.
I think He brought a lot
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

.

Hinduism has talked about the commonality of all religions for thousands of years. Unity of nations and international organizations has been initiated by many secular and political leaders independent of Bahaullah/Bab (I still don’t think international relations is the domain of religious leaders, although they should always support them by preaching peace and unity).

Of course Muhammad created progress in the Arabian peninsula, but for Iran I think Islam was a step back instead of better progress (that’s when many Zoroastrian refugees escaped to India). For the other countries like Turkey, India - progress and development may have been just as quick (maybe quicker) without Islam - difficult to say.

Of course, once an empire is created by conquest and slaughter, the empire becomes a center for progress and development (the Roman empire also had progress in terms roads built, trade increased) - that is no reflection or the result of the religion practiced - perhaps it would have been even better with some other religion than with Islam.

But Arabia definitely needed Islam to get rid of tribalism, superstition, illiteracy and general backwardness…

 

[Servant19]

Hinduism has talked about the commonality of all religions for thousands of years. Unity of nations and international organizations has been initiated by many secular and political leaders independent of Bahaullah/Bab (I still don’t think international relations is the domain of religious leaders, although they should always support them by preaching peace and unity).

Of course Muhammad created progress in the Arabian peninsula, but for Iran I think Islam was a step back instead of better progress (that’s when many Zoroastrian refugees escaped to India). For the other countries like Turkey, India - progress and development may have been just as quick (maybe quicker) without Islam - difficult to say.

Of course, once an empire is created by conquest and slaughter, the empire becomes a center for progress and development (the Roman empire also had progress in terms roads built, trade increased) - that is no reflection or the result of the religion practiced - perhaps it would have been even better with some other religion than with Islam.

But Arabia definitely needed Islam to get rid of tribalism, superstition, illiteracy and general backwardness…

Lord Krishna talked about the unity of Hinduism with Islam??



I would like teachings given by God through which an independent religion is born, not man who sees it might be a nice thing to say.

.