What next?

[nox]

Up until maybe a month ago I’ve largely been convinced that God is nonexistent and all who are religious are mislead. I have always had a strong belief in science and reason without room for faith, and a negative bias toward religion. Now I think I am beginning to understand how both science and religion can coexist in oneself.

I have very little religious background. My dad was brought up Jewish but the farthest he has gone with his faith as a father was the celebration of Passover and Hanukkah. I’ve been to a few Bar/Bat Mitzvahs of family members and friends, but never had one of my own.

Recently my beliefs have begun to change. A friend of mine who is Catholic has loaned me some books and told me much about her faith. I went to church with another friend a couple of times also.

I wonder what to do now in regard to faith. Protestant or Catholic? What does it mean to join a church? What is involved with being actively religious?

I’m going to a Catholic mass tomorrow with a friend, so I suppose that is a step. Any information/insight is appreciated.

 

[Matthias123]

I know this must be a very confusing time for you. Many have walked the same path you tread but have fallen away and have given up. Living a virtuous Christian life is the hardest thing you can do in this world. Our Lord Jesus Christ said before his passion:

“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law – a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household. Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.”—Matthew 10:34-38

When you take up your cross and follow Christ there will be much suffering. However, in this suffering you will become holy by uniting your suffering to our Lord’s sorrowful passion. God has a plan for you. It will ultimately lead you to happiness. Just think, has God ever disappointed anyone who has hoped in him?

Just remember, nothing that you do in life that is easy is ever worth doing. This is the motto I live by.

Also you must seek truth above all things. Protestant churches may make you feel better. Their parishes may be more spiritually alive. Their doctrines may be easier to follow. They me have better coffee and donuts. I say to you that none of that matters. I don’t care how a church makes me feel. In the wise words of Mother Angelica “I can get a good feeling from eating a big ole’ bowl of pasta” I can pretend I live in a lolly pop house on candy cane lane all I want. It will be worthless if it is not the truth. The Catholic Church has the fullness of the truth. It is the Church that was founded by Jesus himself. The rest are created by men. Why would you want to be anywhere else?

I encourage you to spend some time in front of our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. Tell him that you want to be closer to him. Then just sit there. Let him do the rest.

I love you, and I am praying for you.

 

[Matthias123]

Here are some links:
catholic.com/library/pillar.asp
catholic.com/library/Adam_Eve_and_Evolution.asp
ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/billramey/kalam.htm

 

[HelenaMT]

Up until maybe a month ago I’ve largely been convinced that God is nonexistent and all who are religious are mislead. I have always had a strong belief in science and reason without room for faith, and a negative bias toward religion. Now I think I am beginning to understand how both science and religion can coexist in oneself.

I have very little religious background. My dad was brought up Jewish but the farthest he has gone with his faith as a father was the celebration of Passover and Hanukkah. I’ve been to a few Bar/Bat Mitzvahs of family members and friends, but never had one of my own.

Recently my beliefs have begun to change. A friend of mine who is Catholic has loaned me some books and told me much about her faith. I went to church with another friend a couple of times also.

I wonder what to do now in regard to faith. Protestant or Catholic? What does it mean to join a church? What is involved with being actively religious?

I’m going to a Catholic mass tomorrow with a friend, so I suppose that is a step. Any information/insight is appreciated.

Welcome to the forum, nox!

If you’re not familiar with a Mass, the pattern of it, the responses everyone makes to the priest, the memorized prayers everyone knows, may be a little strange because you don’t know them. I would recommend while you’re there just praying to God to fill you with the awareness of His presence and to help you come to know Him.

Actually joining a church gives you a bigger community of friends, and a place where you can feel closer to God than in your house, or car, or other mundane places where you might pray. It gives you a mental focus.

I was raised in a secular household and it took a lot of self-education to realize that faith in God and belief in Jesus doesn’t make you a superstitious primitive.

Part of the reason I was drawn to the Catholic Church was studying history. So much of our scientific heritage can be traced back to Catholic monks and priests. The Catholic faith has never truly been in conflict with scientific inquiry. It is also the church whose roots go right back to Jesus !

 

[grandfather]

Up until maybe a month ago I’ve largely been convinced that God is nonexistent and all who are religious are mislead. I have always had a strong belief in science and reason without room for faith, and a negative bias toward religion. Now I think I am beginning to understand how both science and religion can coexist in oneself.

I have very little religious background. My dad was brought up Jewish but the farthest he has gone with his faith as a father was the celebration of Passover and Hanukkah. I’ve been to a few Bar/Bat Mitzvahs of family members and friends, but never had one of my own.

Recently my beliefs have begun to change. A friend of mine who is Catholic has loaned me some books and told me much about her faith. I went to church with another friend a couple of times also.

I wonder what to do now in regard to faith. Protestant or Catholic? What does it mean to join a church? What is involved with being actively religious?

I’m going to a Catholic mass tomorrow with a friend, so I suppose that is a step. Any information/insight is appreciated.

I imagine that you will receive an awful ot of advice, some good and some not so good. Remember what people write here is their opinions, some well founded and others not.

So here is my opinion, or advice.

First is a comment that science, the natural sciences and religion have different areas of study in a sense. The natural sciences investigate different phenomena observable in the physical universe. They can make no observation of things in the spiritual world, but only about things that are measurable, weighable, touched, felt, smelt, tasted, or heard. If something exists outside the phsysical dimension and is real then it is a spiritual reality. If love exists it is a spiritual reality, for example. Mercy is a spiritual reality. If you have an immortal soul that will depart from your body at death and leave the physical world this is a spiritual reality. Science, or the natural sciences do not study this and can make no statement about it. Therefore it can not be in conflict with religion. Reason is different. Faith and reason are not at odds either, but that is too much to get into here.

Anyway, for a starter why not say a simple prayer. “God if you exist, please show me. Reveal yourself to me if you want me to know you. If there is truth to be found in religion please guide me to it. If you speak to me I am open to listen”.

God bless you.

 

[nox]

Thanks for the responses. The Catholic mass was interesting, a little confusing and foreign, but I’m glad i went. Everyone did seem alot more connected in this church; the songs were inspiring. Plus my friend who took me has a really good voice.

I think I’m able to put to rest my lifelong clash of faith and science as I finally understand how they really are not related like I used to believe they were.

I do like how in the Protestant church the service focused much more clearly on current life by directly addressing feelings and emotions and explaining parts of the bible in regard to such. This sermon was a bit harder to follow. However I definitely see how much more connected Catholics are just through their enthusiasm (by the way the place was packed) and how every Catholic church has the same 3 readings each day. Plus my friend was telling me about World Youth Day which sounded really cool.

Edit: Thanks for the advice specifically grandfather as I’ve been unable to really find the words to go about doing such.

I enjoy history too and the effects religion has had on it.

 

[Trishie]

I’m glad for you that you’ve begun this journey to and with the God of love. I ask God’s Spirit to guide you towards the whole truth of what Jesus came to teach and to give.

Good for you! Having the flexibility and honest to come searching even though you come from a family that didn’t appear to have much religious commitment!

My warmest regards, Trishie

 

[grandfather]

I think I’m able to put to rest my lifelong clash of faith and science as I finally understand how they really are not related like I used to believe they were.

I do like how in the Protestant church the service focused much more clearly on current life by directly addressing feelings and emotions and explaining parts of the bible in regard to such. Edit: Thanks for the advice specifically grandfather as I’ve been unable to really find the words to go about doing such.

I enjoy history too and the effects religion has had on it.

Religion can be very confusing. The world has many religions all claiming to offer something to people, or have some beneficial knowledge to share that is useful or necessary that is related to spiritual realities that we can not see. Logic says they may or may not exist. Christianity, Judaism and Islam claim that they are based on truths, or information that has been revealed by God, knowledge that humans did not figure out by power of intellect, but that was revealed from the spiritual realm. Logic says the claims of any religion may or may not be true.

Faith is believing information that we are told, but that we did not figure out for ourselves. We all live by some kind of faith, not necessarily religious faith. We have faith in a physician who tells us what illness we have and how to get well. We get directions to a place and believe them and follow them, on faith. Religious faith is believing what God has revealed.

Logic says that either all religions are false or one is true. Contradicting doctrinal positions can not all be true.

There are questions all peoples have in all cultures in all times that are unanswerable. These are questions about our existence and existence itself. Where do we come from? Where are we going? How do we get there? Why do we exist? Is there some purpose which we all share in our lives? How should I live? What is right and wrong? The answers to these questions are not discoverable by the power of human intellect. Man can not know why he exists, but he can speculate. We can not know where it all comes from and what its all about by figuring it out. If these things are knowable at all the answers have to be revealed to us. If they are revealed to us then they are knowable by believing the revelation. That is called religious faith, and it is a gift. It is a gift infused in the soul by God. There are two other essential gifts that come directly from God. They are hope and love.

Revelation tells us that each of us has a common purpose, the reason we exist. It is also our proper destiny.

It is impossible to get to the place you are supposed to go if you don’t know where it is. If you do not know where yo are going it does not matter what direction you take.

Why do you exist?

Every human being exists to love and be loved. That is your purpose. You are made to know and love God and your fellow man. We see that people do not always do that. They get lost. They get confused. The purpose of true religion is to help us stay on track, on the proper spiritual track.

Emotions can mislead us. Faith is knowledge about how to live the spiritual life that we obtain by believing what is revealed. This is in the intellect not the emotions. Emotions are good. God made us with emotions, but we do not know truth by feeling it. God also gave us intellect.

You can feel heat, but heat is not a feeling. You can feel love, but love is not a feeling. It is a spiritual reality.

There are many exciting things for you to discover on your journey and come to know. The first thing to know is that the Being who created you loves you. You are very important to God, of immeasurable infinite value.

 

[nox]

Very insightful. The main reason why I took an interest in religion is I haven’t been very happy with my life lately and felt pessimistic about the future, which I can relate to in your post.

 

[grandfather]

Very insightful. The main reason why I took an interest in religion is I haven’t been very happy with my life lately and felt pessimistic about the future, which I can relate to in your post.

What does the human soul need to be happy?

Every human being alive shares something in common. Every one does things to try to make itself happy. Every action taken is taken with the intent of finding happiness. When someone robs a bank or gets married the intention is to find happiness.

We can see that many things people do however, do not lead to happiness. People end up in places and create lives for themselves that are miserable instead of happy.

Look at celebrity culture in this country. How many are happy after achieving fame and wealth or stardom?

People are happy when their souls are at peace with God. People are happy when they know they are loved and they love.

You are made to love and be loved. If you do that you will be happy.

People are unhappy when they are afraid. Maybe they are afraid of the future. Maybe they are afraid of death, or poverty, or lonliness, or being rejected and unloved.

How we live, the way we live will determine whether or not we have peace or find love. These are spiritual things.

Spiritual things or conditions can not be achieved through material means. They can only be achieved spiritually.

Human beings are material and spiritual beings. We are body and soul. Both need care. There are thousands of ideas about how people should care for their bodies, what kind of food to eat, special diets of many kinds, what not to eat or do, or avoid. The soul is the same. There are tihngs we can do that will make our souls healthy and things that will make us sick. The things that will make us spiritually sick and maybe kill the life of our souls are called sins. They are acts that defeat the purpose for which we are made, to love and be loved. They cause harm to others.

We can not care for our souls on our own. We need help. We need God’s help. We call this help grace. Grace comes from the Latin word gratia, or gift.

We do not choose to exist. You were given existence. So the most fundamental essence of your being, your very existence is a gift. It is only natural that we want to know sometihng about the Being who gave us existence, who created us.

God created your soul out of nothing. That is a difficult concept to grasp, nothing. God called you or spoke you into existence. The Being who created the vast cosmos, the oceans, birds, fish, animals and insects, the elements, made you personally, and for a reason.

He made you to know Him and love Him and be known and loved by Him. Its that simple.

But He did not make only you. He made all of us and wills that we love one another. We have to be taugfht to do this. If we look around we see people who do terrible things to others. They do not know how to do something so simple.

There is no secret to happiness. The way to happiness is shouted by religion. Be kind. Live your life in service to others. Give yourself for others. Care for the wounded and broken ones, physically and spiritually. Feed the hungry. Visit the sick, Comfort the dying. Love.

This is the purpose for which you are made and if you fulfill it you will be happy forever. We can only do these things with God’s help. He gives us the power to do them. Without that power we do harmful things instead.

This grace makes us holy people. When we look around we can see examples of people who achieved holiness and people who achieve the opposite.

What do you desire for yourself to achieve? You can have holy desires or evil ones. In his trip to Australia for World Youth Day, one of the things the pope said to the youth was that they should allow the God the Holy Spirit to form in them holy desires.

We are all viators, travelors. We are en via, on our way. What path will you take? Will it be the path of holiness? There is another choice. It is the path of darkness and many people go that way. It is your choice. There is only one way that will lead your soul to happiness, that will give you peace, that will lead you to eternal love.

God not only made you, but in this new stirring in you, in this new curiosity He calls you . He calls you out of darkness into light, divine light. Its your move. You have to answer, or not.

Love is like a magnate that pulls us and the closer we get to it the more violent the pull. God is love. When love gets hold of our souls it annihilates everything that is opposed to it. We become new creatures. Jesus said, “Behold, I make all things new”.

God bless you.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

nox,
keep in mind these two simple statements.

1. Faith, is God’s revelation of Himself to us, however that may happen.
2. Religion, is our response to that faith.

So, the first step is to receive faith, and that can only come from the source of faith, Jesus Christ. So, turn to Him in prayer, and ask for faith.

After you receive faith, you will desire only to following the will of God, and it is in following His will for you, that you will be led to the religion that He will feed you best in.

For me, it was and is, the Catholic Church. For you, it may be different.

But faith must come before religion, otherwise, your religion observance will be empty.

Jim

 

[grandfather]

nox,
keep in mind these two simple statements.

1. Faith, is God’s revelation of Himself to us, however that may happen.
2. Religion, is our response to that faith.
   Jim

Another slightly different way to say that is:

Faith is believing God’s revelation to us.
Religion is our response to that which is revealed, what we do with this knowledge that comes by faith.

There is only one reason to belong to any religion, or be part of any religion. That is you believe its doctrines, the things it teaches, are true.

Saying that a particular religion works best for me, but another one might work best for you, is probably not helpful. God did not reveal different versions of truth or different revelations to different people. Those differences are man made.

Saying what works for me works for me and whatever works for you is good for you is called relativism. That is the belief that everyone can have their own truth and there is no objective reality or truth about it that can be known.

Logic tells us that either all religions are false, or have some mistake in their doctrine, or one religion is true, has all of its doctrines correct.

It can seem arrogant to claim perfection. I am right and everyone else is wrong, or my religion is 100% right and everyone else’s religion has some error somewhere.

But if it is true, then it is not arrogant. Truth can not be arrogant. There can be many theories about the orignins of the universe in natural science, but there can only be one that is correct. If there is a math problem, what is two plus two, there can be many answers, but only one right answer. It is what it is and it is not arrogant to be right. The same is true about knowing spiritual truths. You are right or wrong. What is is.

How is it possible that any group of humans in any endeavor could be right about everything they believe about spiritual things when none of us has the ability to see the spiritual dimension?

It is possible if in fact God leads His Church, His people, in truth.

Jesus said to His apostles, “There is much that I want to tell you, but you can not bear (understand) it yet. But I will send you the Holy Spirit who will lead you into all truth”. “I will not leave you orphans (on your own)”. “I will be with you until the end of time”.

By God’s promises in His revelation, as recorded in the Bible, there has to be a Church somewhere who has all of its doctrines correct, or God’s promises are false.

The task is to find that Church.

 

[glenaitken]

Up until maybe a month ago I’ve largely been convinced that God is nonexistent and all who are religious are mislead. I have always had a strong belief in science and reason without room for faith, and a negative bias toward religion. Now I think I am beginning to understand how both science and religion can coexist in oneself.

I have very little religious background. My dad was brought up Jewish but the farthest he has gone with his faith as a father was the celebration of Passover and Hanukkah. I’ve been to a few Bar/Bat Mitzvahs of family members and friends, but never had one of my own.

Recently my beliefs have begun to change. A friend of mine who is Catholic has loaned me some books and told me much about her faith. I went to church with another friend a couple of times also.

I wonder what to do now in regard to faith. Protestant or Catholic? What does it mean to join a church? What is involved with being actively religious?

I’m going to a Catholic mass tomorrow with a friend, so I suppose that is a step. Any information/insight is appreciated.

I thnk thath catholic is the best way to go (of course i am catholic, so i don’t know if that helps or not). catholics have alot in the way of everything. if you do like being scientific minded, that is really not a problem in the catholic church because we hold that natural truths and supernatureal truths have the same Author, and so they do not contradict each other and both are important- that may be a big plus. I’m sure that others on this forum will have alot of really good answers too. pray about it and study

 

[InLight247]

Saying what works for me works for me and whatever works for you is good for you is called relativism.

Yes.Truth has to be absolute, if it is relative, then it is not truth.

While the Catholic Church believes people in other religions may also go to heaven, it does not take away our responsibility of Evangelization.

Should we say to someone who is attracted to New Age, for example, “As long as it works for you, and it brings you close to God, I encourage you to be a new ager?”

Being **receptive **and being ambiguous are two different things.

If I don’t believe the Catholic Church is the true Church, I will not remain in it.
If I remain in it, I have the responsibility to spread the good news and help others to find the true Church.

We are not to twist people’s arms, but we are not to hold a relative position either.

 

[KarenElissa]

Up until maybe a month ago I’ve largely been convinced that God is nonexistent and all who are religious are mislead. I have always had a strong belief in science and reason without room for faith, and a negative bias toward religion. Now I think I am beginning to understand how both science and religion can coexist in oneself. …

You might want to check out this blog. Jenn was an athiest and is now a Catholic. Here is her little blurb about herself:

When I was 26, I had never once believed in God, not even as a child. I was a content atheist and thought it was simply obvious that God did not exist. I thought that religion and reason were incompatible, and was baffled by why anyone would believe in God (I actually suspected that few people really did). After a few years in the Bible Belt, I became vocally anti-Christian. Imagine my surprise to find myself today, just a few years later, a practicing Catholic who loves her faith (my husband and I both entered the Church at Easter Vigil 2007). This is the chronicle of my journey.

It really is a great read!

 

[JimR-OCDS]

grandfather

Well, I didn’t think the OP’s question should lead us into a debate, but since you brought it up.

There is only one reason to belong to any religion, or be part of any religion. That is you believe its doctrines, the things it teaches, are true.

You can believe in the doctrines, which many Catholics do, but it doesn’t mean you have faith. Even the Pharisees of Jesus time, believed in the doctrines of their religion, but they didn’t have faith.

Saying that a particular religion works best for me, but another one might work best for you, is probably not helpful.

Without faith, no religion works. The key is faith in God and trust in His divine guidance.

God did not reveal different versions of truth or different revelations to different people. Those differences are man made.

Differences between religions are mostly man made. However, faith in a divine being who created all things, is essentially the same. God’s love for his creation transcends all human understanding. If God speaks to a person who is not Catholic, who am I or anyone else, to say He doesn’t?

Saying what works for me works for me and whatever works for you is good for you is called relativism.

I never said this.

However, God leads we follow. It is God who will lead you to where He will feed you best, according to your capacity. Trust in His will and aligning oneself with it, is the goal of any saint.

That is the belief that everyone can have their own truth and there is no objective reality or truth about it that can be known.

On the contrary, to say that truth is only given to certain people, is false. Even the Church teaches that other religions, including non-Christian religions, have elements of truth and we should not reject those truths, just because they’re not Catholic.

Logic tells us that either all religions are false, or have some mistake in their doctrine, or one religion is true, has all of its doctrines correct.

This type of logic is what causes bigotry against people of other religions. We have the truth, they don’t, so stay away from them.
Pope John Paul II showed how to over come this flawed thinking.

But if it is true, then it is not arrogant. Truth can not be arrogant.

The two terms don’t coincide. Truth is truth, whether its held by the arrogant or humble. How we bring that truth to others is what matters.

There can be many theories about the origins of the universe in natural science, but there can only be one that is correct. If there is a math problem, what is two plus two, there can be many answers, but only one right answer. It is what it is and it is not arrogant to be right. The same is true about knowing spiritual truths. You are right or wrong. What is is.

Spiritual truths are often vague and hard to understand. Everyone will have a different experience in their spiritual journey, although, if truly from God, they are very similar. Our problem is usually how we attempt to communicate the experience. St. John of the Cross says that trying to tell some one who has no experience about the union with God, at the center of the soul, is folly. They won’t understand. Explaining the experience of faith is different than explaining mathematics.

How is it possible that any group of humans in any endeavor could be right about everything they believe about spiritual things when none of us has the ability to see the spiritual dimension?

Agreed. Its not possible for any group of humans to be right about everything they believe. Even Catholics have been wrong.

It is possible if in fact God leads His Church, His people, in truth.

The Catholic Church has the fullness of “revealed” truth. That doesn’t mean that all truth has been revealed to the Catholic Church.

Jesus said to His apostles, “There is much that I want to tell you, but you can not bear (understand) it yet. But I will send you the Holy Spirit who will lead you into all truth”. “I will not leave you orphans (on your own)”. “I will be with you until the end of time”.

Correct, and before they received the Holy Spirit, they were confused on what Jesus taught. So it is, when a person practices religion, without faith. Until they have the post-resurrection awareness that the Apostles had, which is faith in Jesus Christ, religion will be nothing more than an exercise.

By God’s promises in His revelation, as recorded in the Bible, there has to be a Church somewhere who has all of its doctrines correct, or God’s promises are false.

The task is to find that Church.

Without faith, the task is a mere search for religion and even if you find yourself in the Catholic faith, in time you’ll be leave frustrated or become a religious fanatic.

Jim

 

[grandfather]

You can believe in the doctrines, which many Catholics do, but it doesn’t mean you have faith. Even the Pharisees of Jesus time, believed in the doctrines of their religion, but they didn’t have faith.

The doctrines of any religion are true or false. Some religions have a mixture of both. One or none has doctrinal correctness on all.

The faith of an individual, what an individual believes about something has nothing to do with whether or not any doctrinal belief is true or not. If the individual’s faith, or what he believes happens to be (doctrinally) true, then he has true faith. I do not understand how someone can believe in a doctrine that is true and not have the gift of faith. Perhaps we have a different definition of faith.

Without faith, no religion works. The key is faith in God and trust in His divine guidance.

Of course. But one’s faith must be in that which is truly what God has revealed, not some corruption or distorted version of it.

Differences between religions are mostly man made. However, faith in a divine being who created all things, is essentially the same. God’s love for his creation transcends all human understanding. If God speaks to a person who is not Catholic, who am I or anyone else, to say He doesn’t?

God certainly does this. If or when He does He will not contradict Himself in what He reveals to another person. His revelation will be consistent. So if He reveals to mankind that God is Trinitarian, He will not reveal to a Jehovah’s Witness, Mormon or Unitarian, or Muslim that He is not. So when someone makes a claim that your Church refutes, you can say that this is not divinely revealed.

However, God leads we follow. It is God who will lead you to where He will feed you best, according to your capacity. Trust in His will and aligning oneself with it, is the goal of any saint.

God will lead us to the truth He reveals to all in public revelation. There is only one place to be fed properly. He will not lead people into false religions. “I am the bread come down from heaven. My Body is real food. My blood is real drink. Unless a man eat my Body and drink my Blood he has no life within Him.”

On the contrary, to say that truth is only given to certain people, is false. Even the Church teaches that other religions, including non-Christian religions, have elements of truth and we should not reject those truths, just because they’re not Catholic.

It is true that elements of truth are known by most religions. Elements or pieces are not enough, or Jesus would not have guaranteed that He would lead His Church into all truth. The consequences of believing error are severe.

This type of logic is what causes bigotry against people of other religions.

Wow! So are you saying that the Catholic claim to have fullness of truth is bigotry?

We have the truth, they don’t, so stay away from them.
Pope John Paul II showed how to over come this flawed thinking.

Who said we should stay away from anyone?

The two terms don’t coincide. Truth is truth, whether its held by the arrogant or humble. How we bring that truth to others is what matters.

Correct!

Spiritual truths are often vague and hard to understand.

They are both vague and as plain as could be. It is a paradox.

Everyone will have a different experience in their spiritual journey, although, if truly from God, they are very similar.

There is another paradox. Each soul is unique and expereinces uinique things, but we also are the same. The same things satisfy us and we have the same spiritual needs, or we would have nothing to share, nothing in common.

Our problem is usually how we attempt to communicate the experience. St. John of the Cross says that trying to tell some one who has no experience about the union with God, at the center of the soul, is folly.

This is true. We can not expalin an experience that some else has not had, but each soul is made for and longs for the same things and has the same needs, peace, love, mercy, joy. If one person has known these things he can speak to that longing in other souls.

They won’t understand. Explaining the experience of faith is different than explaining mathematics.

Yes, but there is some similarity. Suppose you were an expert in calculus or trigonometry and I had a severnth grade education. Suppose there were a problem that I needed to have the answer for and I could not solve it and you could do it easily. Suppose you solved it and told me the answer. I would know the answer by believing what you told me. I would know it by faith. Now suppose there were lots of supposed experts all claiming to have the answer. Who should I believe?

Agreed. Its not possible for any group of humans to be right about everything they believe. Even Catholics have been wrong.

Unless God gives them the answers.

The Catholic Church has the fullness of “revealed” truth. That doesn’t mean that all truth has been revealed to the Catholic Church.

Right, God has revealed to us only what we need to know. We can not know everything, because our minds are finite and limited.

Correct, and before they received the Holy Spirit, they were confused on what Jesus taught. So it is, when a person practices religion, without faith. Until they have the post-resurrection awareness that the Apostles had, which is faith in Jesus Christ, religion will be nothing more than an exercise.

There are lots of people who claim to have this awareness. They believe very different and contradicting doctrines. Are you saying it does not amtter what people believe as long as they have something called post-resurrection awareness? Are you saying that this awareness makes them on par with the apostels and they do not need to receive faith from the Apostles, but can have it on their own?

Without faith, the task is a mere search for religion and even if you find yourself in the Catholic faith, in time you’ll be leave frustrated or become a religious fanatic.

Were the saints religious fanatics?

This is probably very confusing to the OP. I think maybe it should be not continued.

 

[nox]

nox,
So, the first step is to receive faith, and that can only come from the source of faith, Jesus Christ. So, turn to Him in prayer, and ask for faith.

Well I think I’m going in the right direction then.

And thats alot of good information. Funny thing my friend and I were talking about saints as I was reading these last posts. Does sound a bit fanatical. Its hard to wrap my mind around that kind of stuff, how their bodies don’t decay and such.

 

[grandfather]

Well I think I’m going in the right direction then.

And thats alot of good information. Funny thing my friend and I were talking about saints as I was reading these last posts. Does sound a bit fanatical. Its hard to wrap my mind around that kind of stuff, how their bodies don’t decay and such.

There have been saints in every generation. It is part of human history that we are not taught in school. The things that happen in their lives are supernatutal, above nature. You can learn about their extraordinary lives simply by reading the history.

Some people disbelieve the things the saints did thinking that they are medieval fairy tales, but there are modern saints whose lives are recorded by modern historians as well.

I suggest you do a web search on the name Padre Pio.

 

[nox]

grandfather u and my friend think alike, we just had a conversation about him hah.