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OutinChgoburbs
Guest
This is the way it is in our diocese. HOWEVER, I can understand why it is the way it is in the OP’s parish. I’ts apriori. It’s the way it is.
My suggestion: If the school has a parish, join it.
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My suggestion: If the school has a parish, join it.
A
acadian
Guest
My kids made their sacraments with our parish, but the preparation at the parish level for the “Catholic School kids” was minimal. The parents attended a meeting, their were practices for both First Confession and First Communion, and I think their was a retreat one morning prior to First Communion (at least for 1 kid). The bulk of the instruction was done at school in their religion class.
It varies quite a bit from parish to parish, from what I understand.
Works for me.
It varies quite a bit from parish to parish, from what I understand.
Works for me.
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jmcrae
Guest
And it’s all about the least effort that we can get away with, isn’t it?
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netmilsmom
Guest
Sorry, that is a cop out for the schools. This is being left to parents who were let down to begin with and now you seem really comfortable with just letting these kids go. Man, you are hard!
If one is paying for a Catholic education, teach them what is Catholic. One of the biggest differences are our Sacraments. Otherwise, the Catholic schools that failed so miserably at educating the generation of parents are saying, okay you know nothing but now you need to learn so you can educate your child?!?
No wonder we are losing Catholics by the dozens! Who are we helping by this? The schools making the money or the children.
I would be really happy NOT to be responsible for these young immortal souls. Makes me wonder how many Education Directors for the Dioceses are going to be shocked when meeting Our Lord. And how many souls they are responsible for letting hang out to dry because they don’t HAVE to do this.
Give me strength. Just another group of souls to pray for.
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jmcrae
Guest
They have Catechism classes in the schools - which must not be mistaken for Sacramental Preparation courses, nor replaced by them.
They learn the theology of the Sacraments in Catechism classes at school, along with the rest of the teachings of the Church.
They memorize the prayers and they learn the “how to” in Sacramental Preparation classes.
No, they aren’t left on their own - remember that other building at the other end of the block - the one with the little cross and bell on the roof? The parents go to the parish for Sacramental Preparation classes, which is where they belong, because although we learn the theory about the Sacraments in school, the parish church is where we actually do them. Sacramental Preparation is where we learn how to do them.
Actually the souls we need to pray for are those of the previous generation who cancelled Catechism classes (which is the school’s job to teach) and replaced them with Sacramental Preparation classes (which is the church and family’s job to teach) thus depriving an entire generation of Catechesis, and thus landing us in this situation of people who think that Sacramental Preparation is the be all/end all of Religious Education, and have no idea whatsoever that there is all this other stuff that the kids are supposed to be learning, as well.
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Walking_Home
Guest
J
jmcrae
Guest
If they are doing Sacramental Preparation in school, then when and where are they supposed to do their Catechism?
Should the parents and church teach them their Catechism, then? Since the Religious Education classes are being taken up with Sacramental Preparation classes.
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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
The Catholic education that is supposed to be taught in a Catholic school is World History, American History, Geography, Etc. without the secular bias and removal of God, Christianity, or the Catholic Church from it.
The class “Religion 101” is of course expected to be Catholic in nature. but even parish based CCD/Faith Formation should have always been separate from Sacramental preparation.
I always say there is nothing I know that I didn’t learn and nothing that I know that any other adult Catholic can’t learn. Parents need to educate themselves in the Catholic Faith from the time they Baptize their child. By the time First Holy Communion comes around they should be in good shape.
We offer Adult Catechesis sessions on different topics and out of a parish we usually get 1% participation. Depending on the topic and who the presenter is maybe 5%.
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netmilsmom
Guest
Catholic in nature?? But not Catholic dogma? Why bother? Just like the people in my area who feel that the Lutheran School at the corner is just as good as the Catholic school, you are proving the point.
Not in the school I attended nor in the schools my nieces and nephews attended was there ever this attitude.
If you said the same thing to the Polish Felician Sisters that ran my school, they would look at you like you were a loon. NEVER did we have separate classes from our regular school day for Sacramental prep. I’m speaking of 1959 through 1982 when my nephew graduated. Two different schools that I personally know of. This is actually the first I have ever heard of such a thing. And knowing that we are bleeding Catholics in the country, something went horribly wrong. Telling parents to educate themselves to educate their children, is not the solution. Teaching the children so they can help their parents should be the rule.
Need to, for sure. Will do, pipe dream.
Great. We can’t get these people to come to Holy Mass every Sunday and now you think that they will put in an effort, time and money to teach what they are already paying for? Here in America? I don’t think so.
I said it before and I’ll say it again, the average Pete in the Pew, is not on Catholic Answers. They should be but aren’t. We owe something to the children of the people we neglected before this besides a simple, “You people should…”
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netmilsmom
Guest
Both were taught in my school. It’s not that hard. I see no reason why a Catholic school can’t take two days out of their 180 to teach how to go to confession and how to receive the Eucharist. If my school could do it, and my CCD classes now can do it, why can’t they. Except that they don’t “have to”.
Come on, the sarcasm is not needed, my friend.
I did the Sacramental prep classes. They taught me nothing but the people around me knew nothing about those Sacraments and those prep classes were doing nothing to change their minds.
I said it before and I’ll say it again. Both. Both should be done. Otherwise why bother to pay the big bucks for a Catholic School. The CCD class on Sunday is just as good, for the parent who sends the kid to a Lutheran school at half the cost. No secular influences and a good education. Why bother with the Catholic school. Afterall, if “God made the flowers” and “Jesus loves you” was good enough for mom and dad, why not for the kids too?
Someone is shirking duties and it isn’t the parents.
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netmilsmom
Guest
HUH?
Right now, as we speak, my daughter is preparing for First Holy Communion and First Confession. She attends class once a week for an hour and a half. She is able explain the first 50 entries of the CCC, recite the 10 Commandments and the Act of Contrition.
In first grade she was taught who Jesus was, what he did for us, who Mary was, who Joseph was, and in order to pass, had to be able to recite the Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory Be and Angel of God, which they learned by starting each class with a decade of the Rosary.
And they don’t have time to teach this in a 180 days six hours long? They can’t wedge in an hour and a half a week? What in the world are they teaching?
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jmcrae
Guest
Actually, CCD classes and Sacramental Prep classes are also taught separately, at least in my Diocese. I teach Catechism classes for Junior High, but I don’t teach the Confirmation courses at the same time as Catechism (I barely have time to teach Catechism all by itself) - they go to a second class for that.
Okay, so, two hours a day for Religion, instead of only one hour. And you’re going to fit the academics, the arts, and physical education into the other three instructional hours of the day, how?
I have no idea - unless they want academics taught from a Catholic point of view, instead of a secular point of view; if they want more than just finger-painting and recorder-playing in the arts program, and if they want a half-decent physical education program, instead of endless jumping jacks and games of dodge ball.
Why do you think that Catechism classes consist of nothing but “God made the flowers” and “Jesus loves you”? (And given your criticism of Sacramental Preparation classes, how would moving them to the school improve the results?)
I
InTheWilderness
Guest
Wow, this thread really hit home in some ways.
To whoever said there are no more parish schools, I beg to differ. There are. The one I attended from K-8 (ending in 1998) was and is a parish school with a history that traces back well over a century. There are even still some that don’t charge tuition and instead rely on the offerings given to the parish. Catholic education requires sacrifice, but one small community in our diocese proves even those with tiny resources can pull it off. Our diocese only has 3 Catholic High Schools. One of these is located in a tiny rural (and relatively poor) community that only has one small Catholic parish. They probably graduate 20 or so students per year, yet they are able to remain solvent when schools in larger communities supported by larger parishes could not. It comes down to commitment. (It should also be noted this entire community is very conservative, traditional, and orthodox in all measurable ways.)
As to religious ed, sacramental prep, etc., I seem to recall most of it being done in the school with only a very small bit done in the parish. We did get together with the kids that were in the public schools for those few bits, and then went through the actual sacraments in the parish as well. (Of coarse, it isn’t really true to say the sacraments are celebrated in the parish and not the school. I can’t tell you the number of school masses that had to be held in the gym or cafeteria over the years for various reasons.)
As to the non-religious part of the Catholic education being the distinguishing part, I think that is a nice theory but a load of bunk in practice in many places. Sure, there were times we added in a prayer in some other class, but generally the classes in the Catholic school are quite similar to those in a public school. While there is a distinctly Catholic way of approaching certain topics specifically and education in general, very few teachers have been trained in it. Most teachers were educated in public schools, have education degrees from public universities, and spent perhaps one week being trained when they were first hired. The key difference is the parents at least care a small bit about their kids, and are at least theoretically involved in the education of their children. (The same can not generally be said of the public schools.)
Catholic schools can only be distinguished in many cases for somewhat more traditional than the public schools. What Catholic education is now, probably every public school was a few generations ago. As a visible illustration of that, all of the very nice, framed Ten Commandments in every room of the school I attended were donated to the school by the local public school system when they were forced to remove them. (It goes without saying these are all of the Protestant variety.)
If people want to “take back” Catholic education (and prevent it from continuing to follow slowly in the lead of the degenerating public schools), the place to start is with the religious education, formation, and religious practices. Is sacramental prep part of this? I really don’t know if it should be or not. However, it is vitally important that this most Catholic element of Catholic schooling be done well.
To whoever said there are no more parish schools, I beg to differ. There are. The one I attended from K-8 (ending in 1998) was and is a parish school with a history that traces back well over a century. There are even still some that don’t charge tuition and instead rely on the offerings given to the parish. Catholic education requires sacrifice, but one small community in our diocese proves even those with tiny resources can pull it off. Our diocese only has 3 Catholic High Schools. One of these is located in a tiny rural (and relatively poor) community that only has one small Catholic parish. They probably graduate 20 or so students per year, yet they are able to remain solvent when schools in larger communities supported by larger parishes could not. It comes down to commitment. (It should also be noted this entire community is very conservative, traditional, and orthodox in all measurable ways.)
As to religious ed, sacramental prep, etc., I seem to recall most of it being done in the school with only a very small bit done in the parish. We did get together with the kids that were in the public schools for those few bits, and then went through the actual sacraments in the parish as well. (Of coarse, it isn’t really true to say the sacraments are celebrated in the parish and not the school. I can’t tell you the number of school masses that had to be held in the gym or cafeteria over the years for various reasons.)
As to the non-religious part of the Catholic education being the distinguishing part, I think that is a nice theory but a load of bunk in practice in many places. Sure, there were times we added in a prayer in some other class, but generally the classes in the Catholic school are quite similar to those in a public school. While there is a distinctly Catholic way of approaching certain topics specifically and education in general, very few teachers have been trained in it. Most teachers were educated in public schools, have education degrees from public universities, and spent perhaps one week being trained when they were first hired. The key difference is the parents at least care a small bit about their kids, and are at least theoretically involved in the education of their children. (The same can not generally be said of the public schools.)
Catholic schools can only be distinguished in many cases for somewhat more traditional than the public schools. What Catholic education is now, probably every public school was a few generations ago. As a visible illustration of that, all of the very nice, framed Ten Commandments in every room of the school I attended were donated to the school by the local public school system when they were forced to remove them. (It goes without saying these are all of the Protestant variety.)
If people want to “take back” Catholic education (and prevent it from continuing to follow slowly in the lead of the degenerating public schools), the place to start is with the religious education, formation, and religious practices. Is sacramental prep part of this? I really don’t know if it should be or not. However, it is vitally important that this most Catholic element of Catholic schooling be done well.
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netmilsmom
Guest
We are Catholic. We should be teaching the basics of the CCC. Read again in post 50 about how these classes are taught in my parish. No one says, “You need to come for regular CCD on Wednesday but because your child is in a Sacramental year, you also have to come on Fridays.”
They teach it all in that hour and 15 minutes. Maybe it’s the program you are using? I can send you a link to our books that cover the truth of Jesus and our liturgical year in K through 1. Eucharist and Confession in second, reinforcement in third, and onto the Bible in reference to our Sacraments in fourth and so on.
We need to stop concentrating on what is “Christian” and start concentrating on what is Catholic/Christian.
Your kids only go to school for five hours a day? And you’re paying for this?
We cover everything in One hour 15 minutes a WEEK. Add on homework, where the parents ARE involved because we must sign each paper before and after, and you have a whole two hours a week. Maybe it’s your program.
Hmmmm, the Lutheran school up the street does the same. It may not be a “Catholic” point of view, but it’s not secular either. And if the Sacramental Prep is not covered in a Catholic school, then a piece of our education is missing as well. And they charge less money, they don’t blackmail the parents into working 8 hours at the Parish festival and BUT because they parents have to pay for Sacramental Prep anyway, to the average Catholic who got “Christian heavy/Catholic Lite” in their own CCD classes, it looks like a money saver all the way around.
Because by concentrating on the Sacraments, one of the largest differences between Catholic and Protestant, one is given a much fuller Catholic education.
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netmilsmom
Guest
Amen!
The books used by the homeschoolers going through Seton or Kolbe, which are as Catholic as one gets, are rarely seen in the schools.
You are very wise.
P
puzzleannie
Guest
I see OP has not been back to say what her child’s Catholic school actually DOES teach for RE, so we are still not answering her question. Until she does reply no point in going. The bishop’s have said IMMEDIATE preparation for reception of sacraments happens in the parish. That does not equate to “Catholic schools shall not teach anything about the sacraments.” Until OP responds the discussion should cease.
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netmilsmom
Guest
Well, there are many people here including the OP. So, it begs the question, is this the norm in Catholic Schools?
I would be curious to know.
K
Karin
Guest
When my eldest was in Catholic elemantry school (k-8)…he had religion class every day of the week…they where prepared for the sacraments they where going to receive in those classes (age/grade appropriate) …so no extra CCD classes where needed…the only time he HAD to go to CCD class was 9th grade when he was preparing for Confirmation…even though he attended a Catholic High school and had religion every day the Church we attend wanted him to attend a once per week class for 2 hours to prepare for Confirmation…It was a great class…and the teacher (Steve Greydanus) was the best:thumbsup:
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DJgang
Guest
note, I haven’t read this entire thread, but will! soon!
I just registered (not accepted yet) my son in the local Catholic school. I am under the impression (and was told, outlined in overview of his grade) that he would be taught the Catholic religion, as far as the mysteries, etc, he will be attending Mass every week, etc, however, when age appropriate, the Catholic children will be seperated and taught the sacraments, etc.
Am I understanding this correctly do you think?
I just registered (not accepted yet) my son in the local Catholic school. I am under the impression (and was told, outlined in overview of his grade) that he would be taught the Catholic religion, as far as the mysteries, etc, he will be attending Mass every week, etc, however, when age appropriate, the Catholic children will be seperated and taught the sacraments, etc.
Am I understanding this correctly do you think?
P
puzzleannie
Guest
is what the norm? Op has not said what is or is not taught, other than sacramental prep.
Yes, it is the norm for immediate sacramental prep to be done in the parish. don’t you want to be in a Catholic school that obeys your bishops?
that does not necessarily imply CCD attendance on top of Catholic school, unless, the parents have previously neglected their child’s RE and we are playing catch up.
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