What of protestants?

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Is hearasy damnable?

Most of Church history, the Church certainly thought so…

But now the mood changed. Even though so many protestants have blatantly left the Catholic faith they originally had. This is hearsay, right? or is it?

Why the sudden change of tone to protestants?
I dont get it.
 
Nothing sudden. Around 1965, my Lutheran friend’s mother thought it was funny to have us pray the Our Father together, and then get all happy because “his was longer than mine.” Literally, and she was deadly sincere about it.

Until the last few decades, Protestants were also pretty good at throwing around Bible verses left and right like they actually knew what they were talking about whether they did or not. They loved to feel superior to Catholics because they could out-quote us. In the 60’s and 70’s it was the rare lay Catholic who cracked open the family Bible except to record a wedding or baptism in the front pages of it. No priest or nun ever would suggest we actually read the Bible. I don’t remember their saying it shouldn’t be done, it was just unheard of.

My mother was taught in no uncertain terms, in the 30’s, that all her little Protestant friends would go to hell. She would cry every night, and was not too happy at God for rigging the system that way.

So I guess it works both ways. We are right; they are wrong so they will go to hell. 🤷

My understanding of Catholic teaching is that non-Catholics do not necessarily need despair of being saved.
 
But now the mood changed. Even though so many protestants have blatantly left the Catholic faith they originally had. This is hearsay, right? or is it?

Why the sudden change of tone to protestants?
I dont get it.
As a Protestant Christian, I cannot and will not say that I ever left the catholic faith. I am a member of Christ’s Church on earth I am part of the catholic (universal) church.

Maybe I don’t totally understand your OP…can you clarify on the “hearsay” point you spoke about?
 
As a Protestant Christian, I cannot and will not say that I ever left the catholic faith. I am a member of Christ’s Church on earth I am part of the catholic (universal) church.

Maybe I don’t totally understand your OP…can you clarify on the “hearsay” point you spoke about?
heresy being rejecting the Catholic Church.

Of course my understanding is that its only heresy if one leaves the Church. The ROMAN Church.

Same did. Some havent. Thats why i am confused.
 
heresy being rejecting the Catholic Church.

Of course my understanding is that its only heresy if one leaves the Church. The ROMAN Church.

Same did. Some havent. Thats why i am confused.
I think that the reason you see the change in “mood” is actually quite simple.
As you say above, many have not left the Catholic faith because they were never formally or fully a part of it. How can they be said to have rejected that which they have never known or embraced? This is why the Catechism expresses it as it does here…
818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”
(Bolding Mine)
So what we see here is a recognition by the Church that there are many many people who are our brothers and sisters in Christ and yet are not in full communion. We cannot charge them with the sin of heresy…and we should not…

Peace
James
 
Is hearasy damnable?

Most of Church history, the Church certainly thought so…

But now the mood changed. Even though so many protestants have blatantly left the Catholic faith they originally had. This is hearsay, right? or is it?

Why the sudden change of tone to protestants?
I dont get it.
I think that, in the centuries after the Reformation, the Catholic Church has gradually come to understand the proper pastoral approach to our Protestant brothers.

Obviously, most Protestants hold beliefs that, objectively speaking, we cannot share completely. For example—to cite a common Protestant tenet—affirming that the Scriptures are the only admissible source of doctrine (to the exclusion of the Holy Tradition) goes against a core doctrine of the Catholic Church.

Moreover, Protestants do not enjoy the fullness of union with the Catholic Church, in part because many of them do not understand the “catholicity” (universality) of the Church in the same way we do.

However, that doesn’t mean that Protestants are not to be treated with the respect and dignity that all people deserve (all the more in the case of fellow Christians). Don’t forget that the vast majority of Protestants are validly baptized and hence are fully incorporated into the Body of Christ, just as we are. (The visible unity is lacking, it is true, but they truly possess the life of grace and adoptive sonship in the Lord, thanks to their Baptism.)

One issue is that the accusation of “heresy” (which is I think what you meant) is a very serious matter. It is important to keep in mind that formal heresy is defined as obstinate (that is, willful) doubt or denial of a core belief of the Catholic Faith.

We can never judge the interior dispositions of a person, but it is possible that the original Reformers (Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, and so on) were guilty of heresy, because they all began as Catholics and were learned men. However, it is not possible for Protestants nowadays, who are now nearly 500 years removed from the Reformation.

Even the vast majority of the Catholics who join a Protestant denomination are not guilty of heresy; they leave because they perceive that the church they join gives them something (perhaps fellowship, contact with the Scriptures, or what have you) that the Catholic Church does not. Certainly, Catholics believe that these persons are missing out on the fullness of the Faith and the Sacraments, but they are not formally guilty of heresy.

This is something that it has taken the Church a long time to learn fully. For a long time, it was simply taken for granted that those who left the Church, or took part in a Protestant denomination, did so willfully and obstinately.

Perhaps part of the reason for the recent change in mood is the increasingly secularization of society. It has helped Catholics and Protestants to realize that they are, for the most part, on the same side, comrades-in-arms, so to speak. We also cannot discount the work of the Holy Spirit, Who constantly leads the Church into the truth.
 
heresy being rejecting the Catholic Church.

Of course my understanding is that its only heresy if one leaves the Church. The ROMAN Church.

Same did. Some havent. Thats why i am confused.
HERESY: The obstinate denial after Baptism of a truth which must be believed with divine and Catholic faith (2089; cf. 465).

Tthe vast majority of Catholics who leave their Church are very poorly catechized. They are not “leaving” their faith because they never really were grounded in it.

As far as Protestants, the vast majority give very little, if any, thought to Catholicism. They cannot be accused of separating from that to which they were never connected.
 
I think that the reason you see the change in “mood” is actually quite simple.
As you say above, many have not left the Catholic faith because they were never formally or fully a part of it. How can they be said to have rejected that which they have never known or embraced? This is why the Catechism expresses it as it does here…
818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”
(Bolding Mine)
So what we see here is a recognition by the Church that there are many many people who are our brothers and sisters in Christ and yet are not in full communion. We cannot charge them with the sin of heresy…and we should not…

Peace
James
Well stated as usual.🙂
Mary,
 
Heresay and people leaving are two very different topics so you really need to be careful in how you put them together.

A few things to consider.

Heresay- you need to define what it is. The definition has changed over the years especially with the ecumenical movement.

Secondly, you seriously need to look at the ecumenical movement especially since Vatican II with the degree on ecumenism which recognizes all non-Catholic Christians as their brothers and sisters in Christ. Since then, the Catholic church doesn’t condemn the Protestants for not being Catholic and hence the heresay in the past regarding their teachings has disappeared depending on church Protestant church you speak of.

Thirdly, you also should look at what is happening inside the Catholic church and realize that the majority of the Catholics that left the Catholic church was due to two big things. 1) They weren’t probably catechized when they were young so with age they left due to disbelief in God or the teachings of the Catholic church. 2) Over the years, the Catholic church has also hurt a great number of individuals through the sex scandals, and other things which caused people to leave.

All of these topics are huge and full of debate therefore you really need to use some caution when combing these two subjects.
 
In 1520 Luther was threatened with excommunication if he did not recant his errors.
He refused and was excommunicated in 1521, I believe it was.

Before 1521 he was a Catholic in communion with the Church.
After 1521 he was a Catholic out of communion with the Church.

He did not cease to be Catholic in the Church’s view, but was being disciplined by being deprived of the graces to be had from the Church until he repented.

All Lutherans “are” Martin Luther, in a sense. They are out of communion with the Catholic Church. But, in virtue of their Baptism, they are Catholic.

And I propose it is the same with protestants following upon any of their original protestors to the Catholic faith - they “are” their originator, Baptized but still out of communion with the Church - Catholic all, but out of communion until they return to the faith left by their originator.
 
Is hearasy damnable?
I would say that heresy is damnable, as in “that damnable heresy”, but technically speaking, only people are damned, and to do so they must willfully and knowingly embrace the heresy.

Hearsay is also damnable, being very close to gossip. 😃
 
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