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Vonsalza
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That’s ultimately where you’ve “got him” and where he’s not willing to give a clear answer.JonNC:
Could I start my own “Church” and have the power to bind and loose?
What percentage of Protestant theology is based on the Bible?
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It depends. Do you, first, believe in the power to bind and loose? If you don’t think that is within the power of the Church, you probably wouldn’t care.JonNC:
Could I start my own “Church” and have the power to bind and loose?
But apostolic is more than succession, and more than being in communion with one bishop.
It is interesting how you always seem to view this as a “gotcha contest”. That usually results in a shut down of dialogue. I understand why you in particular might want that, but I have never looked at it that way.
See my response above.
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ltwin
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There is no one Protestant theology, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a commonality to Protestantism–namely the principles of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide. Obviously, there are differences too, but at least in theory all Protestant churches accept Sola Scriptura as the basis for determining doctrine.
I think most would say that "infallible " is a claim one bishop makes for himself, quite honestly. So, no. While I can’t speak for anyone but me, I don’t think they would say that.
Well, they Gould refer to councils. Lutherans do it a lot. There’s no inconsistency in doing so.
they actually take a rather conservative view, that being to evaluate books based on how the early Church and Fathers did.
So, again, it seems a futile effort to group “sola scripturists” or "Protestants " as s single monolith
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AugustTherese
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I just started my own “Church”. I believe in the power to bind and loose and that I have the power to bind and loose. Does my “Church” have the power to bind and loose?
I’m sure you would use the Orthodox Church as evidence here. But, how can one who starts his own “Church” maintain Apostolic Succession?
I guess it depends on who you categorize as Protestant. If you include Anglicans, and maybe Methodists, you might get push-back.
Then have at it. I’m probably not joining, however.
Actually, Anglicans are evidence, and even Lutherans.
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ltwin
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Not from any Methodist who understands the historical meaning of Sola Scriptura (Some Methodists like to distinguish Sola Scriptura from “Prima Scriptura”, which is what they say Methodists believe but the distinction is kind of pointless). And the Anglicans you’re talking about don’t think they are Protestants anyway so, shrug.
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Vonsalza
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Because I love, LOVE debate-hall-style apologetics.
And lets be frank, most religious views are held chiefly from emotional attachmemt, so I don’t presuppose that I can change your mind by gently showing the gaps in your systematic theology.
I do it for fun.
And lets be frank, most religious views are held chiefly from emotional attachmemt, so I don’t presuppose that I can change your mind by gently showing the gaps in your systematic theology.
I do it for fun.
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AugustTherese
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Why not?! What does your current “Church” have that mine does not?
I’ll throw you a bone and say you have a compelling argument with the Anglicans, although they do not have Apostolic Succession via the AC (Apostolicae curae). Claiming that Lutherans have Apostolic Succession is quite the stretch!
That’s why I said depends on who you categorize as Protestant.
The other issue is what does sola scriptura mean. How is it implemented as a hermeneutical principle? We can say they are all sola scripturist, or sola fide, and it doesn’t necessarily inform us on what they believe
The problem is your attempts usually fail, and are often overshadowed by your approach
Mine has an ordained clergy. So does Rome.
Sure we do. And since the western Church has used presbyter ordination, do are Lutherans who ordain thus. Apostolicae curae iswhat You are taught. Please don’t be offended if we discard it
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Vonsalza
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Spoken like a true believer!
But unfortunately we don’t decide who fails, despite your pleas one way or another. So back to it:
The “gotcha” moment was your inability to positively define who is in the church in a way that isn’t obviously capricious.
Predictably, you’ve deployed obfuscation on the matter, which is fine. But that’s a de facto concession of the fact on your part.
But unfortunately we don’t decide who fails, despite your pleas one way or another. So back to it:
The “gotcha” moment was your inability to positively define who is in the church in a way that isn’t obviously capricious.
Predictably, you’ve deployed obfuscation on the matter, which is fine. But that’s a de facto concession of the fact on your part.
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Vonsalza
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As does the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.AugustTherese:
Mine has an ordained clergy. So does Rome.
It seems these credentials might need to be vetted?
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AugustTherese
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So does mine! Cannot I use the same proposed elements for valid Orders as does your “Church”?
I am not ‘offended’ by what individuals protest and ‘discard’; empathetic for souls, yes, but offended, no. Claiming you have Apostolic Succession is a claim. You would need to roll out your lineage of succession back to the original Apostles to substantiate your claim. The Catholic Church and Orthodox Church can and do! The Anglican and Lutheran denominations cannot.
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And again, in your attempt to simply be arrogant, you missed the point of Baptism. Your communion recognizes the baptism of mine, meaning, even from their perspective, I am a member of His Church. What’s the term, separated brother in Christ?
There is no gotcha in that, other than Christ gets us both equally, triumphalism notwithstanding
And I don’t care about them. What they think is irrelevant.
Probably so
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Vonsalza
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No I didn’t; it’s essentially what we’ve been asking and what you’ve refused to answer. You just keep changing the wording of the question. So in this case:Vonsalza:
And again, in your attempt to simply be arrogant, you missed the point of Baptism.
Who decides who’s validly baptized?
Oneness Pentecostals? Mormons?
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