What political view should Roman Catholics hold?

[mpi]

In the US the Republican party best articulates Catholic values. This is clear and objectively true. The primary issue for Catholics should be respect for innocent life, which is created at conception. This issue is a slam dunk for Republicans.

 

[Ghoti]

In the US the Republican party best articulates Catholic values. This is clear and objectively true. The primary issue for Catholics should be respect for innocent life, which is created at conception. This issue is a slam dunk for Republicans.

Unfortunately, of the mainline parties in Canada, it is the Liberals.

Not that the Libs would endorse a pro-life platform party-wide: but they would allow a free vote of conscience in the House.

Not so the socialist NDP, who are totally pro-abortion as a fixed and immovable plank in the party platform – any candidate who voted pro-life would be immediately ejected from caucus.

Normally, if any of the big parties were to champion – or at least lean toward – a pro-life stance, it would be the “Tories” (Conservatives). Yet even though the party has taken a rather decisive shift to the right since the days of Joe Clark and the Red Tories, Prime Minister Harper has stated that he would forbid the matter from even coming up in the House.

Here’s who I had to vote for, last federal election:

• Conservative: No discussion of abortion
• NDP: Get rid of the Army before we get rid of abortion.
• Liberal: Open question, up to the individual candidate. My candidate refused to articulate his position (i.e., pro-abortion)
• Green: Club babies, not seals
• Animal Alliance: More or less ditto
• Independent: Grey man. Platform consists mainly of “I’m not beholden to a party”, but then again “I’ll listen to you, I won’t necessarily vote the way you want me to”, thus not beholden to the electorate either. And if he won’t tell you where his conscience lies…
• Marxist-Leninist: Oui, je suis Marxiste, mais tendence Groucho.
• Canadian Action Party: I’ve never liked parties with the word “Action” in their names.* Or hold to 9/11 conspiracy theories as part of their platform. Or that were founded by a politician who:
• started Liberal, and as Minister of National Defence oversaw the integration (and emasculation) of the armed forces;
• tried to form a new party made up of PC’s and Social Credit
• switched to PC
• found the PCs “not conservative enough”, and so switched back to the Liberals
• formed this new party which he tried to merge with the NDP
• believes in UFOs, and that Dubya was planning “Intergalactic War” against space aliens, and that the gov’t was concealing alien technology that would offset global warming :whacky:

I can’t even remember who I voted for. If Christian Heritage had run in my riding, I’d’ve voted for them. I thought I had, actually, only it seems to be a false memory I implanted in myself. I think I voted Lib on the least of all evils, but there wasn’t really a snowball’s chance in H-E-double-toothpicks that the NDP incumbent was going to be defeated (I won’t say who he is, only that he looks like V. Lenin’s less-menacing twin).

Lord, there are times I pray for a resurgence of the Parti Rhinoceros.

Footnotes:
*Or “Front”, or “Heritage” (usually), or “People’s”, or “Liberation”, or “Nationalist”, or “Red”, “White”, “Black”, “Pink” or “Green”, etc etc.

 

[JPUSC]

osjspm.org/majordoc_centesimus_annus_official_text.aspx

What do you have to back up your claim that Catholics should be economically liberal? The link above is the official vatican rejection of the welfare state by JPII (para 48).

All of the themes listed above suggest that a society is responsible for the welfare of others, especially the vulnerable. Every person has a fundamental right to life and a right to those things required for human decency. A basic moral test is how our most vulnerable members are faring. The economy must serve people, not the other way around. We are our brothers’ and sisters’ keepers, wherever they may be. Loving our neighbor has global dimensions in a shrinking world.

I’m a Republican, but it irritates me that on the ballot the Republican Party frequently tells its members to vote against propositions that help the poor, hospitalized and vulnerable in favor of lower economic impact. There is also no strong Republican movement to protect the working class. I’ve had ultra-conservatives tell me that they are pro-death penalty because inmates take up tax dollars and their death would cost taxpayers less money. That is a view that is contrary to the Church’s regard for the dignity of life - putting the importance of money over the well-being of humans.

Seven Key Themes of Catholic Social Teaching

The measure of every institution is whether it threatens or enhances the life and dignity of the human person.

We believe people have a right and a duty to participate in society, seeking together the common good and well-being of all, especially the poor and vulnerable.

Every person has a fundamental right to life and a right to those things required for human decency.

A basic moral test is how our most vulnerable members are faring. In a society marred by deepening divisions between rich and poor, our tradition recalls the story of the Last Judgment (Mt 25:31-46) and instructs us to put the needs of the poor and vulnerable first.

The economy must serve people, not the other way around. Work is more than a way to make a living; it is a form of continuing participation in God’s creation. If the dignity of work is to be protected, then the basic rights of workers must be respected–the right to productive work, to decent and fair wages, to the organization and joining of unions, to private property, and to economic initiative.

We are our brothers’ and sisters’ keepers, wherever they may be. Loving our neighbor has global dimensions in a shrinking world.

We show our respect for the Creator by our stewardship of creation. Care for the earth is not just an Earth Day slogan, it is a requirement of our faith. We are called to protect people and the planet, living our faith in relationship with all of God’s creation. This environmental challenge has fundamental moral and ethical dimensions that cannot be ignored.

usccb.org/sdwp/projects/socialteaching/excerpt.shtml

Rerum Novarum - Pope Leo XIII

It is lawful," says St. Thomas Aquinas, “for a man to hold private property; and it is also necessary for the carrying on of human existence.”" But if the question be asked: How must one’s possessions be used? - the Church replies without hesitation in the words of the same holy Doctor: “Man should not consider his material possessions as his own, but as common to all, so as to share them without hesitation when others are in need. Whence the Apostle with, ‘Command the rich of this world… to offer with no stint, to apportion largely.’”(12) True, no one is commanded to distribute to others that which is required for his own needs and those of his household; nor even to give away what is reasonably required to keep up becomingly his condition in life, “for no one ought to live other than becomingly.”(13) But, when what necessity demands has been supplied, and one’s standing fairly taken thought for, it becomes a duty to give to the indigent out of what remains over. “Of that which remaineth, give alms.”(14) It is a duty, not of justice (save in extreme cases), but of Christian charity - a duty not enforced by human law. But the laws and judgments of men must yield place to the laws and judgments of Christ the true God, who in many ways urges on His followers the practice of almsgiving - ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive";(15) and who will count a kindness done or refused to the poor as done or refused to Himself - “As long as you did it to one of My least brethren you did it to Me.”(16)

The Church, moreover, intervenes directly in behalf of the poor, by setting on foot and maintaining many associations which she knows to be efficient for the relief of poverty. Herein, again, she has always succeeded so well as to have even extorted the praise of her enemies.

1. There is another and deeper consideration which must not be lost sight of. As regards the State, the interests of all, whether high or low, are equal. The members of the working classes are citizens by nature and by the same right as the rich; they are real parts, living the life which makes up, through the family, the body of the commonwealth; and it need hardly be said that they are in every city very largely in the majority. It would be irrational to neglect one portion of the citizens and favor another, and therefore the public administration must duly and solicitously provide for the welfare and the comfort of the working classes; otherwise, that law of justice will be violated which ordains that each man shall have his due.

vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_15051891_rerum-novarum_en.html

**Exsul Familia - Pius XII **

All people have the right to conditions worthy of human life and, if these conditions are not present the right to migrate.

 

[JPUSC]

Catechism of the Catholic Church

1908 Second, the common good requires the social well-being and development of the group itself. Development is the epitome of all social duties. Certainly, it is the proper function of authority to arbitrate, in the name of the common good, between various particular interests; but it should make accessible to each what is needed to lead a truly human life: food, clothing, health, work, education and culture, suitable information, the right to establish a family, and so on.28

1911 Human interdependence is increasing and gradually spreading throughout the world. The unity of the human family, embracing people who enjoy equal natural dignity, implies a universal common good. This good calls for an organization of the community of nations able to "provide for the different needs of men; this will involve the sphere of social life to which belong questions of food, hygiene, education, . . . and certain situations arising here and there, as for example . . . alleviating the miseries of refugees dispersed throughout the world, and assisting migrants and their families."29

1940 Solidarity is manifested in the first place by the distribution of goods and remuneration for work. It also presupposes the effort for a more just social order where tensions are better able to be reduced and conflicts more readily settled by negotiation.

1941 Socio-economic problems can be resolved only with the help of all the forms of solidarity: solidarity of the poor among themselves, between rich and poor, of workers among themselves, between employers and employees in a business, solidarity among nations and peoples. International solidarity is a requirement of the moral order; world peace depends in part upon this.

1881 Each community is defined by its purpose and consequently obeys specific rules; but "the human person . . . is and ought to be the principle, the subject and the end of all social institutions."4

2237 Political authorities are obliged to respect the fundamental rights of the human person. They will dispense justice humanely by respecting the rights of everyone, especially of families and the disadvantaged.

The political rights attached to citizenship can and should be granted according to the requirements of the common good. They cannot be suspended by public authorities without legitimate and proportionate reasons. Political rights are meant to be exercised for the common good of the nation and the human community.

2241 The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him.

Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens.

2288 Life and physical health are precious gifts entrusted to us by God. We must take reasonable care of them, taking into account the needs of others and the common good.

Concern for the health of its citizens requires that society help in the attainment of living-conditions that allow them to grow and reach maturity: food and clothing, housing, health care, basic education, employment, and social assistance.

vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

 

[mpi]

All of the themes listed above suggest that a society is responsible for the welfare of others, especially the vulnerable. Every person has a fundamental right to life and a right to those things required for human decency. A basic moral test is how our most vulnerable members are faring. The economy must serve people, not the other way around. We are our brothers’ and sisters’ keepers, wherever they may be. Loving our neighbor has global dimensions in a shrinking world.

I’m a Republican, but it irritates me that on the ballot the Republican Party frequently tells its members to vote against propositions that help the poor, hospitalized and vulnerable in favor of lower economic impact. There is also no strong Republican movement to protect the working class. I’ve had ultra-conservatives tell me that they are pro-death penalty because inmates take up tax dollars and their death would cost taxpayers less money. That is a view that is contrary to the Church’s regard for the dignity of life - putting the importance of money over the well-being of humans.

Centesimus Annus is the Vatican’s 100 year update of Rerum Novarum. In this document the Vatican condemns the welfare state for reducing the human initiative to work.

Those 7 principles you bring up. The key word is “society”. Society has an obligation to help the poor - NOT necessarily government. Many poor in the US are not as poor as those poor in more socialist nations. This is, I think, at the heart of what JPII stated i nCentesimus Annus.

 

[Mimi]

kpeople: Ahem…I feel my post is being ignored – what of political activism to attain or coerce people into being “charitable”. I would think that’s not authentic Catholic social justice.

Re: my post:
What would you think of a Catholic pastor who is belongs to (at least informally; goes to meetings) and urges parishioners to join and support a group whose goals and ethics are pretty much Liberation Theology? This group is like a little ACORN.

So far, we’ve been able to stay out, but there is a definite push. DH spoke with Fr. and he is v aware of this group’s affiliations (Gamaliel and Industrial Areas Foundation) and we are disappointed (to say the least) that he would threaten our tax exempt status by promoting this kind of thing.

Any of this happening in your area?

Mimi

 

[mpi]

kpeople: Ahem…I feel my post is being ignored – what of political activism to attain or coerce people into being “charitable”. I would think that’s not authentic Catholic social justice.

Re: my post:
What would you think of a Catholic pastor who is belongs to (at least informally; goes to meetings) and urges parishioners to join and support a group whose goals and ethics are pretty much Liberation Theology? This group is like a little ACORN.

So far, we’ve been able to stay out, but there is a definite push. DH spoke with Fr. and he is v aware of this group’s affiliations (Gamaliel and Industrial Areas Foundation) and we are disappointed (to say the least) that he would threaten our tax exempt status by promoting this kind of thing.

Any of this happening in your area?

Mimi

I don’t like liberation theology - not one bit.

 

[Michael96]

kpeople: Ahem…I feel my post is being ignored – what of political activism to attain or coerce people into being “charitable”. I would think that’s not authentic Catholic social justice.

Re: my post:
What would you think of a Catholic pastor who is belongs to (at least informally; goes to meetings) and urges parishioners to join and support a group whose goals and ethics are pretty much Liberation Theology? This group is like a little ACORN.

So far, we’ve been able to stay out, but there is a definite push. DH spoke with Fr. and he is v aware of this group’s affiliations (Gamaliel and Industrial Areas Foundation) and we are disappointed (to say the least) that he would threaten our tax exempt status by promoting this kind of thing.

Any of this happening in your area?

Mimi

Are you troubled by your church involving itself with politics, or involving itself in politics you disagree with?

 

[Mimi]

What I am troubled by is that these groups (I’ve been referring to them as Alinsky-style organizations, or org’s), are indeed pushing a left-wing agenda (somewhat covered), which will undoubtedly include abortion and other anti-life positions.

Most concerning is how much our pastor is behind this, despite a few outspoken people being against joining. These groups have been proliferating in the US for the last 10 yrs (and more in some areas), and are going worldwide.

The Church, and by our affiliation, our parish, should not be aligned with any one particular group with ties to a particular party. That is what I have been taught, at least. Our pro-life group has been admonished to be careful about not endorsing any particular candidtate during elections, for example, or our tax-exempt status may be threatened.

Yet, I see no one in the Catholic news media talking about forming a coalition to counteract this activity and educate people.

Thank you for remarks, Micael96 and mpi. My research indicates this is a form of liberation theology and that is not how we do things in the USA.

Peace,
Mimi

 

[Michael96]

that is not how we do things in the USA.

And that is an important point. The Church exists in many different cultural and political settings, and always needs to somewhat adapt to the parochial “how we do things around here” mindset. I would say the Church is actually very good at that, which is a strength.

 

[Appleby]

Agree. Being not an expert in these topics, I am not sure about he proper “denominations”. For example, not sure if the UK is a democracy or not, as they have a queen, but as long as t is a system where PEOPLE have a voice and power to elect their representatives, it will be OK.

Britain (and Canada) are Constitutional Monarchies. They are not any kind of democracy.

Personally I believe with G.K. Chesterton that “Democracy is five wolves and a lamb voting on what’s for lunch.” I believe the Republic (which is what the United States actually is; it is not a democracy) is about the best form of government currently available.

 

[Michael96]

Of course we’re a democracy in the UK. All laws are created by an elected assembly.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

And that is an important point. The Church exists in many different cultural and political settings, and always needs to somewhat adapt to the parochial “how we do things around here” mindset. I would say the Church is actually very good at that, which is a strength.

Which is one reason why what might be true in the USA or somewhere else is not automatically valid for the UK. No foreigner has any business to dictate to us whether we are permitted to have a welfare state or not; we do not need permission, thank you very much ​

 

[Michael96]

No foreigner has any business to dictate to us whether we are permitted to have a welfare state or not; we do not need permission, thank you very much

Indeed - you are a democracy.

Of course foreigners are still allowed to express a non-voting opinion

 

[Appleby]

Which is one reason why what might be true in the USA or somewhere else is not automatically valid for the UK. No foreigner has any business to dictate to us whether we are permitted to have a welfare state or not; we do not need permission, thank you very much ​

Don’t you have a lot of Muslims in the UK dictating everything from whether people can have piggy banks on their desks to whether or not surgical nurses of the Muslim faith have to bare their arms to the elbow in order to scrub?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Indeed - you are a democracy.

Of course foreigners are still allowed to express a non-voting opinion

[Sigh of relief] ​

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Don’t you have a lot of Muslims in the UK dictating everything from whether people can have piggy banks on their desks to whether or not surgical nurses of the Muslim faith have to bare their arms to the elbow in order to scrub?

Most of them are British Pressure groups within a country are a different kettle of fish from foreigners ​

 

[eaglewing]

Social justice issues draw the line in the sand between conservative friends and me-Discussion zingers are usually pointed at my democratic leanings which were nurtured by Sisters of Mercy and enforced by a wonderful priest who worked tirelessly to bring Hispanics and Anglos together in his parish. My conservative friends rally feverishly around “nationalism” and raise their eyebrows when I suggest God doesn’t see borders-He sees his people(s). They truly believe everyone is born on an equal playing field in this country and dismiss the notion that some are “more” equal than others. My community has been economically devastated since the late 70’s, and yet, the line between conservative and liberal is as clearly defined as ever.

 

[JPUSC]

Social justice issues draw the line in the sand between conservative friends and me-Discussion zingers are usually pointed at my democratic leanings which were nurtured by Sisters of Mercy and enforced by a wonderful priest who worked tirelessly to bring Hispanics and Anglos together in his parish. My conservative friends rally feverishly around “nationalism” and raise their eyebrows when I suggest God doesn’t see borders-He sees his people(s). They truly believe everyone is born on an equal playing field in this country and dismiss the notion that some are “more” equal than others. My community has been economically devastated since the late 70’s, and yet, the line between conservative and liberal is as clearly defined as ever.

Social justice is a part of Catholic life and tradition. Abortion is a part of social justice. The Church is neither Republican nor Democrat and many people seem to forget that. My allegiance is to God and His Church alone, not to any political movement.

 

[eaglewing]

My point was that the Church is the guiding force and social justice issues must be recognized because of man’s failure to abide to the teaching.