What, precisely, has been immorally commanded?

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It’s really quite interesting. Cardinal Castrillon-Hoyos addressed this topic in a letter to Bishop Fellay. I thought I’d use him because you all like to quote his interviews so much. 😉
• “It cannot be denied that the dysfunction of the Catholic hierarchy, … omissions, silences, deceptions, tolerance of errors, and even of positively destructive acts, reaches even into the Curia, and unfortunately even in the Vicar of Christ. These are public facts that can be seen by ordinary men.” (Letter from Mgr. Bernard Fellay to Card. Castrillon, Menzingen, June 21, 2001).
This frontal attack on the hierarchy of the Catholic Church, including the Pope, and the reproach of having abandoned Tradition, constitutes in practice a dangerous pretention of judging the supreme authority. In line with the teaching of the First Vatican Council, Pastor Aeternus, we believe no one can arrogate to himself the right to judge the Holy See: “… than which there is no higher authority [and which] is not subject to revision by anyone, nor may anyone lawfully pass judgment thereupon.” Nicholas I said it already in the 9th Century, in the letter to Proposueramus: “The judge will be judged neither by the emperor, nor by the assembly of the clergy, nor by the princes, nor by the people. … The principal See will not be judged by anyone.”
Nor can one forget, in line with true Catholic Tradition, these other declarations of the First Vatican Council on the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church, in fact, “…received the keys of the kingdom from our Lord Jesus Christ, the savior and redeemer of the human race, and that to this day and for ever he lives and presides and exercises judgment in his successors the bishops of the Holy Roman See, which he founded and consecrated with his blood.” It is thus that “…by unity with the Roman Pontiff in communion and in profession of the same faith, the Church of Christ becomes one flock under one Supreme Shepherd. This is the teaching of the Catholic truth, and no one can depart from it without endangering his faith and salvation.” Also in Pastor Aeternus, one reads concerning the Apostolic See: “For in the Apostolic See the Catholic religion has always been preserved unblemished, and sacred doctrine been held in honor. Since it is our earnest desire to be in no way separated from this faith and doctrine, we hope that we may deserve to remain in that one communion which the Apostolic See preaches, for in it is the whole and true strength of the Christian religion.”
unavoce.org/castrillon_hoyos_to_fellay.htm
This letter is worth a read. It hardly backs up Gerards “paraphrasing”.
 
More from the letter…
• The Society of St. Pius X makes an accusation, saying that Truth has been abandoned by the Church that it calls, in a pejorative fashion, “conciliar”: “The Conciliar Church is like a termite that bores away from the inside. For 30 years and more, the same principles have been applied with an imperturbable coherence, despite their catastrophic fruits. … So, we prefer to keep our freedom to act for the whole Church rather than let ourselves be isolated in a zoo of Tradition. It is necessary to shake up the Catholic world, which slumbers in a post-Conciliar lethargy.” (Interview with Mgr. Fellay in the journal “Pacte” Summer 2001).
• In addition, in a letter you sent me, Your Excellency wrote: “It seems to me possible to affirm, from our point of view, that, following Popes Pius XII and Paul VI, the Church is presently in a literally apocalyptic situation.” (Letter from Mgr. Bernard Fellay to Card. Castrillon, Menzingen, June 21, 2001). I did not manage to find the exact words of Pius XII Your Excellency is referring to. I have no difficulty in recognizing, with Pope Paul VI, that the “smoke of Satan” has entered the Church, even if the context of the assertion was limited. In reality it seems that in all eras of the history of the Church, sometimes more sometimes less, one can speak of a situation of Apocalypse. But one should not be surprised by sin, since it is rather grace that is astonishing. Despite the decadence of the practice of the Faith that extends up and down the old European continent, despite the presence here and there of certain abuses in discipline and liturgy, it is disproportionate, false and unacceptable to claim that the Church and the Pope have left the Faith.
St. Catherine of Siena wrote to Barnabas, Viscount Lord of Milan: “He is insane who rises or acts contrary to this Vicar who holds the keys of the blood of Christ crucified. Even if he was a demon incarnate, I should not raise my head against him, but always grovel and ask for the blood out of mercy. And don’t pay attention to what the demon proposes to you and you propose under the color of virtue, that is to say to want to do justice against evil pastors regarding their fault. Don’t trust the demon: don’t try to do justice about what does not concern you. God wants neither you nor anyone else to set themselves up as a righter of the wrongs of His ministers. He reserves judgment to Himself, and He reserves it to His Vicar; and if the Vicar does not do justice, we should wait for the punishment and correction on the part of the sovereign judge, God Eternal.” (Letters, Vol. I. Letter No. 28).
To return to this situation, I should tell you my sorrow in noting that your publications, despite the praiseworthy desire to guard against certain faults and sins, lack this sensibility that is required in order to appreciate the positive elements that are also amid the faults.
 
SSPX. At least Protestants admit that they are NOT Catholic, and many of them wouldn’t be seen in a Catholic Church.

SSPX on the other hand, claim to be some sort of “super-Catholic”.

Just my opinion

:twocents:
Brother John, you are apparently confused and I would advise you not to comment on things which you clearly know nothing about. the SSPX doesn’t claim to be “super Catholic”; they merely claim to be Catholics who practice the faith as it was practiced for centuries prior to the disturbing liberal “reforms” of the Second Vatican Council. And additionally, no one in the Church hierarchy, including the Pope himself, has ever said that the SSPX are anything but Catholic. Pope Benedict XVI even said that it is an “internal Church matter” and that the SSPX are not in schism.
 
Was anyone who celebrated the clown MAss, the mariachi band Mass, the Halloween Mass, the monkey Mass, the folk Mass, the charismatic throw yourself on the floor MAss, the Peter Paul and Mary Mass, the cowboy Mass, the dancing girl Mass, etc., excommunicated, or was it only those who wanted the TLM who were excommunicated?
actually those who created bishops without permission then hand them ordain priests … that they also wanted the TLM does not make it OK
 
Who’s worse SSPX or protestants?
WHAT an asinine question, THurifer! You obviously know NOTHING about the SSPX. What do the SSPX do that’s so wrong? They only the same things that ALL Catholics did before Vatican II. If you condemn them for that, you must also condemn every saint and pope for the last 1,962 years before the “Great” Council. What heresy do they teach, THurifer? Hmm??

I always find it enraging but also puzzling when Vatican II people liken the SSPX to Protestantism…because the main reason the SSPX exists in the first place is to resist the Protestant tendencies that the liberal hierarchy forced upon the Catholic faithful after Vatican II, and to practice the TRADITIONAL Catholic faith. Nothing wrong with that!
 
I always find it enraging but also puzzling when Vatican II people liken the SSPX to Protestantism…because the main reason the SSPX exists in the first place is to resist the Protestant tendencies that the liberal hierarchy forced upon the Catholic faithful after Vatican II, and to practice the TRADITIONAL Catholic faith. Nothing wrong with that!
This is because the people who bought into the moderate “spirit of Vatican II” (ie. the conservatives) don’t have a sound understanding of the papacy.

They have adopted the Protestant caricature of the papacy as an irresistible demi-god with the only difference being that they approve and like that image of the papacy.

They ignore history, the teaching of the Church on true and false obedience the gifts of the Holy Ghost regarding the 'Sensus Catholicus"

I know it’s enraging to watch them lash out irrationally as they do but we have to try and be patient and bring them to an understanding of what they are missing.

Just as they like to encourage non-Catholics to find the “fullness” of the truth, they have to realize that they are not yet there as long as they are imbibing in a truncated spirituality mixed with modernist errors.
 
This is because the people who bought into the moderate “spirit of Vatican II” (ie. the conservatives) don’t have a sound understanding of the papacy.

They have adopted the Protestant caricature of the papacy as an irresistible demi-god with the only difference being that they approve and like that image of the papacy.

They ignore history, the teaching of the Church on true and false obedience the gifts of the Holy Ghost regarding the 'Sensus Catholicus"

I know it’s enraging to watch them lash out irrationally as they do but we have to try and be patient and bring them to an understanding of what they are missing.

Just as they like to encourage non-Catholics to find the “fullness” of the truth, they have to realize that they are not yet there as long as they are imbibing in a truncated spirituality mixed with modernist errors.
I more liken them to Jansenists or Orthodox so I guess I’m OK. 😉
 
This is because the people who bought into the moderate “spirit of Vatican II” (ie. the conservatives) don’t have a sound understanding of the papacy.

They have adopted the Protestant caricature of the papacy as an irresistible demi-god with the only difference being that they approve and like that image of the papacy.

They ignore history, the teaching of the Church on true and false obedience the gifts of the Holy Ghost regarding the 'Sensus Catholicus"

I know it’s enraging to watch them lash out irrationally as they do but we have to try and be patient and bring them to an understanding of what they are missing.

Just as they like to encourage non-Catholics to find the “fullness” of the truth, they have to realize that they are not yet there as long as they are imbibing in a truncated spirituality mixed with modernist errors.
What was the immoral command that Lefebvre had to disobey???

Still haven’t heard that yet.

Hey look, bobzills…A Koran!!!
 
How is it a schismatic church if it’s an “internal matter”?
In line with general canonical opinion,[18] the Holy See holds that Archbishop Lefebvre committed a schismatic act,[19] but not that he created a schismatic Church. Accordingly, when Cardinal Edward Idris Cassidy presented a revised edition of the Vatican’s Directory for the Application of Principles and Norms on Ecumenism, he stated that “[t]he situation of the members of [the SSPX] is an internal matter of the Catholic Church.” Efforts to interpret this statement as implying that the consecration was not a schismatic act contradict canonical doctrine expressed, for instance, in the circular letter 10279/2006 of 13 March 2006 from the Pontifical Council for Interpreting Legislative Texts, which states that “heresy (whether formal or material), schism and apostasy do not in themselves constitute a formal act of defection” (emphases added) from the Catholic Church.
There is more in en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ec%C3%B4ne_Consecrations#Controversy_over_the_consecration
 
Sure he did, he put the salvation of souls at the forefront of his responsibility as a bishop. …

Not quite. A bishop has a certain responsibility as a Catholic that is higher than a layman or even a priest. He is a successor to the Apostles just as much as the Pope (without of course being the Pope)

The actions and inactions of the post-conciliar Popes were not building up the Church. LeFebvre was building up the Church (and his legacy continues to this day) The command to not consecrate bishops was an unequitable treatment of the law. Had the Popes been building up the Church and defending the Deposit of Faith from the liberals. There is no doubt that LeFebvre would have been in the forefront at the Popes’ side.
“Don’t build up the Church, Let it continue collapsing like I am.” was the command.

Does a war of self-defense against an invader involve only saying “no” or does it involve raising an army, building barricades and taking action to prevent those being resisted against from gaining any more advantage?
Simmer down, everyone. I have to study for a day and I come back and we’ve got a mixed bag on the thread. On the one hand, we’ve made some progress in developing specification of precisely what it was Abp. Lefebvre had to resist and in what way he had to do that. On the other hand, we have all sorts of distractions getting thrown into mix from both sides. Please keep posts on task.

Now, Gerard has offered some arguments and I would like to ask some follow-up questions.
  1. What precedents from jurisprudence or moral theology would you bring to bear to back up your assertion that the command not to consecrate was unjust? After all, every single bishop in the world is under “standing orders” not to consecrate bishops without papal approval, seeing as how that is built into canon law. So if the pope actually took the time to consider this particular situation and then decided to expressly forbid the consecration (thereby expressing his mind as to the existence of exigent circumstances and the necessity of the consecration), what principles might you advance as to why we should judge this unjust? (Once again, it’s not impossible that it be unjust, but we can’t rely on assertion, we need argument).
My bishop didn’t consecrate any bishops today, and I’m unaware of his having been negligent thereby. You have to understand that saying “Lots of prelates were sitting by while the Church self-destructed” is going to be pretty easily understood on this forum, but the jump to “Therefore one particular bishop was morally compelled to consecrate who, when, and where he chose.” Could you give us the logical flow that fills in the space between those two sentences (and yes, feel free to modify the second one, although I do think that in light of the protocol signed by the bishop* that I am not greatly overstating the case).
  1. Why is it that resisting lax prelates, even a lax papacy, could only be done by consecrating bishops? For instance, when I think of what I, as a bishop, might be able to do to resist the inaction of other bishops, even the papacy, I think:
  • I could say Mass reverently, preach courageously, and teach others to do so as well.
  • If I could not do this in a formal setting for lack of approbation, I would be perfectly free to do this informally (in this case, I’m retired - I’ve got nothing else to do, anyway).
  • I could write books and have them published and distributed widely through the generous donations of faithful Catholics.
  • I could humbly ask the Holy Father or my brother bishop to reconsider his course of action and, when my plans were frustrated, I could be incredibly polite in my request to try again or try a different path (this strategy in lieu of the more combative, say, telling the pope he is enabling a Masonic overthrow of the Church and then demanding that I get my way).
  • I could find ways to get seminarians through other bishops’ seminaries but all the while be secretly augmenting their education with real Catholic formation (say during some summers or by regular visits). Cunning as a serpent, innocent as a dove.
If I did all of those things, are you saying it would still be morally necessary for me to consecrate bishops against the express command of the Holy Father? If so, could you give more detail as to why this would be the case?
  • In May, IIRC, the Vatican agreed to chose a priest of the SSPX to consecrate as bishop on Aug. 15, 1988. In early June, Abp. Lefebvre demanded that he consecrate three priests of his own choosing on June 30. When the Vatican insisted on its original agreement with Abp. Lefebvre, he opted to proceed in consecrating four men of his own choosing on the date of his choosing.
 
What was the immoral command that Lefebvre had to disobey???

Still haven’t heard that yet.

Hey look, bobzills…A Koran!!!
OK. It was necessary to avoid the bad example of kissing the Koran.
 
Please provide a reference for this assertion.
Some Catholics claim that Archbishop Lefebvre was excommunicated for consecrating four bishops without a papal mandate. This is not the case:

Cardinal Castillo Lara, J.C.D., President of the Pontifical Commission for the Authentic Interpretation of Canon Law, explained that, “The act of consecrating a bishop (without the Pope’s permission) is not in itself a schismatic act”, and so no exommunication applies. (La Repubblica, October 7, 1988).

Count Neri Capponi, D.Cn.L., LLD, the retired Professor of Canon Law at the University of Florence, well-known in Vatican legal circles and accredited to argue cases before Rome’s highest juridical body, the Apostolic Signatura, explains that for a schismatic act, it is not enough to merely consecrate a bishop without papal permission. “He must do something more. For instance, had he set up a hierarchy of his own, then it would have been a schismatic act. The fact is that Msgr. Lefebvre simply said: ‘I am creating bishops in order that my priestly order can continue. They do not take the place of other bishops. I am not creating a parallel church.’ Therefore this act was not, per se, schismatic” and so he is not excommunicated. (Latin Mass Magazine, May-June 1993).

Cardinal Edward Cassidy, the President of the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity, wrote the following reply, on May 3, 1994, to an inquiry about the status of the Society of Saint Pius X.

“Dear Mr. X…Regarding your inquiry (March 25, 1994), I would point out at once that the Directory on Ecumenism is not concerned with the Society of Saint Pius X. **The situation of the members of this Society is an internal matter of the Catholic Church.
** The Society is not another Church or Ecclesial Community in the meaning used int he Directory. Of course the Mass and Sacraments administered by the priests of the Society are valid. The Bishops are validly, but not lawfully, consecrated…I hope that this answers your letter satisfactorily. Yours sincerely in the Lord, Edward Cardinal Cassidy–President.”

Fr. Gerald E. Murray, J.C.D., of the Archdiocese of New York, received his doctorate in Canon Law at Rome’s famous Gregoryian University, probably the Church’s most prestigious institution of higher learning, in June, 1995, after a successful defense of the lenghty thesis entitled, “The Canonical Status of the Lay Faithful Associated with the Late Archbishop Lefebvre and the Society of Saint Pius X: Are they Excommunicated as Schismatics?”
“They’re not excommunicated as schismatics, because the Vatican has never said they are…You can…show that Lefebvre himself was not excommunicated and therefore no one else was…The Holy See has never stated that mere attendance at a Mass said by a priest in the Society of Saint Pius X constitutes a schismatic act. Could you go to a Society of Saint Pius X chapel to receive good doctrine? That seems better to me thatn hearing truly heretical sermons, e.g., denying hell, or that divorced and remarried people could receive communion.” (Latin Mass Magazine, Fall, 1995).

In Hawaii, Bishop Ferrario of Honolulu decided to excommunicated, on May 1, 1991, some followers of the Society of Saint Pius X, for supporting the Society and attending its Masses. Rome declared that the decision “lacks foundation and hence validity.” Bishop Ferrario’s attempted excommunication of Society followers was overturned by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, on June 28, 1993. “From the examination o fthe case, conducted on the basis of the Law of the Church, it did not result that the facts referred to in the above-mentioned Decree, are formal schismatic acts in the strict sense, as they do not constitute the offense of schism; and therefore the Congregation holds that the Decree of May 1, 1991, lacks foundation and hence validity.” (Apostolic Nunciature, Washington, D.C.)
 
Some Catholics claim that Archbishop Lefebvre was excommunicated for consecrating four bishops without a papal mandate. This is not the case:
Fr. Gerald E. Murray, J.C.D., of the Archdiocese of New York, received his doctorate in Canon Law at Rome’s famous Gregoryian University, probably the Church’s most prestigious institution of higher learning, in June, 1995, after a successful defense of the lenghty thesis entitled, “The Canonical Status of the Lay Faithful Associated with the Late Archbishop Lefebvre and the Society of Saint Pius X: Are they Excommunicated as Schismatics?”
“They’re not excommunicated as schismatics, because the Vatican has never said they are…You can…show that Lefebvre himself was not excommunicated and therefore no one else was…The Holy See has never stated that mere attendance at a Mass said by a priest in the Society of Saint Pius X constitutes a schismatic act. Could you go to a Society of Saint Pius X chapel to receive good doctrine? That seems better to me thatn hearing truly heretical sermons, e.g., denying hell, or that divorced and remarried people could receive communion.” (Latin Mass Magazine, Fall, 1995).
Dude, you might want to check your quotes in something other than an SSPX website or pamphlet.:rolleyes:

Let’s look at at Fr. Murray first.
Fr. Peter R. Scott, District Superior
c/o Regina Coeli House
2918 Tracy Avenue
Kansas City, MO 64109
Phone: 816-753-0073, Fax: 816-753-3560
June 14, 1996
I was recently sent a copy of your pamphlet, “Is the Society of Saint Pius X Schismatic? Excommunicated? Rome Says No.” In this publication you make use of modified quotations from my interview in the Fall 1995 issue of The Latin Mass. You have intentionally misquoted me and even put words into my mouth. I shall illustrate this flagrant dishonesty below.
But first some preliminary observations. You state that I have a doctorate in canon law (a J.C.D.). I do not have a J.C.D., and nowhere in my interview do I claim to have this degree. You made that up. You also assert that the Gregorian University, where I completed my license and where I am currently studying for a doctorate in canon law, “says that the Society of Saint Pius X is neither in schism, nor is it excommunicated… and that anyone can fulfill their Sunday obligation by attending the Society’s Masses.” The Gregorian has not said anything of the sort. The contents and conclusions of my license thesis are my own, not the Gregorian’s.
My license thesis was approved and graded solely by my moderator – who, by the way, did not agree with my conclusions regarding the possible invalidity of the declaration of excommunication issued by the Holy See against Archbishop Lefebvre and the other bishops involved. It was incorrectly reported in The Latin Mass that I successfully defended my thesis, thereby implying a public defense by an academic board, but that is not the case. No such public defense before the canon law faculty is required for a license thesis at the Gregorian (but it is required for a doctoral thesis).
In any event, even supposing a public defense, it should be clear that my thesis is my work, and the Gregorian University as an institution is not the author of my conclusions.
continued…
 
Some Catholics claim that Archbishop Lefebvre was excommunicated for consecrating four bishops without a papal mandate. This is not the case:

Cardinal Castillo Lara, J.C.D., President of the Pontifical Commission for the Authentic Interpretation of Canon Law, explained that, “The act of consecrating a bishop (without the Pope’s permission) is not in itself a schismatic act”, and so no exommunication applies. (La Repubblica, October 7, 1988).
Cardinal Lara is not correct here.

The Pontifical Council for the Interpretation of Legislative Texts says:
“The whole Lefebvrian movement is to be held schismatic, in view of the existence of a formal declaration by the Supreme Authority on this matter…Also the decree of the Congregation for Bishops makes explicit reference to the “schismatic nature” of the aforesaid episcopal ordinations and mentions the most grave penalty of excommunication which adherence “to the schism of Monsignor Lefebvre” would bring with it.”
And my favorite line:
“Doubt cannot reasonably be cast upon the validity of the excommunication of the Bishops declared in the Motu Proprio and the Decree. In particular it does not seem that one may be able to find, as far as the imputability of the penalty is concerned, any exempting or lessening circumstances. (cf CIC, can. 1323) As far as the state of necessity in which Mons. Lefebvre thought to find himself, one must keep before one that such a state must be verified objectively, and there is never a necessity to ordain Bishops contrary to the will of the Roman Pontiff, Head of the College of Bishops.”
And yes, consecrating a bishop without papal mandate is excommunicable as written by Pope Pius XII:
"47. From what We have said, it follows that no authority whatsoever, save that which is proper to the Supreme Pastor, can render void the canonical appointment granted to any bishop; that no person or group, whether of priests or of laymen, can claim the right of nominating bishops; that no one can lawfully confer episcopal consecration unless he has received the mandate of the Apostolic See.
  1. Consequently, if consecration of this kind is being done contrary to all right and law, and by this crime the unity of the Church is being seriously attacked, an excommunication reserved specialissimo modo to the Apostolic See has been established which is automatically incurred by the consecrator and by anyone who has received consecration irresponsibly conferred."
 
…continued
Following the publication of my interview and excerpts from my thesis in The Latin Mass, I have rethought and changed some of my conclusions, and I stated those emendations in a letter to be published in the Summer 1996 issue of the same magazine. I enclose a copy of that letter for your interest.
Now as to the specific fabrications and deceptions in your pamphlet, I include below my actual words from the interview in The Latin Mass, and your falsified version:
  1. You say that I said: “I have received a doctorate in canon law and I’ve studied this topic, the excommunication of Archbishop Lefebvre, for my doctorate thesis.”
I actually said: “I have received a license in canon law and I’ve studied this topic, the excommunication of Archbishop Lefebvre, for my license thesis.”
  1. You say that I said: “They’re not excommunicated as schismatics, because the Vatican has never said they are.”
I actually said: “They’re not excommunicated as schismatic as far as I can see, because the Vatican has never said that they are.”
  1. You say I said: “…You can…show that Lefebvre himself was not excommunicated and therefore no one else was.”
I actually said: “Or you can attempt to show that indeed Lefebvre himself was not excommunicated and therefore no one else was.”
  1. You say I said: “The Holy See has never stated that mere attendance at a Mass said by a priest in the Society of Saint Pius X constitutes a schismatic act.”
I actually said: “As far as I can see the Holy See has never stated that mere attendance at a Mass said by a priest in the Society of Saint Pius X constitutes a schismatic act.”
  1. You say I said: “Could you go to a Society of Saint Pius X chapel to receive good doctrine? That seems better to me than hearing truly heretical sermons, e.g., denying hell, or that divorced and remarried people could receive Communion.”
What I actually said in response to a question from the interviewer (“You’re not encouraging people to attend these Masses, but you’re simply saying – and by the way, Cardinal Ratzinger implied this, too, in a press interview – that just attending that Mass doesn’t mean they’re schismatic.” Ratzinger said he knew people who attend SSPX Masses ‘in the conviction that they are still in full communion with the Pope.’ He called for an 'attitude…of generosity towards these people, many of whom are anguished. 'So you’re on the one hand not advocating that people attend these Masses, but, on the other you’re saying that it is not a schismatic act, necessarily") was:
“Let’s say that you knew that the priest at your parish was teaching things contrary to the moral law or Catholic doctrine. Let’s say he denied the existence of Hell, or taught that divorced and remarried people could receive Communion, and you knew that he was being tolerated by your local bishop. Could you go to an SSPX chapel to receive good doctrine? That seems better to me than hearing truly heretical sermons. I may be wrong, but I think you have a more important right to be at peace in your Faith than to listen to heresy.”
You have misquoted me extensively in support of your propagandistic assertions. You naturally ignored my critical remarks directed towards the Society of St. Pius X in the interview.
I cannot expect you to cite what is not in your favor. But I can and do expect you to report my remarks truthfully and completely, and in their proper context, in your publication. Instead, you have fabricated and falsified my remarks. This is thoroughly dishonorable and disreputable. And it is entirely shameful to attempt to legitimize your claims by invoking my wrongly alleged status as a doctor of canon law.
I demand that you withdraw this publication from circulation immediately. To do otherwise is to engage in public lying about what I have said. The public record of my remarks in The Latin Mass contradicts you. You have an obligation in truth and justice not to spread falsehoods, and in particular not to represent me as saying things I did not say, while leaving out the things I did say, but which you wish I had not said.
A refusal to remove this misleading pamphlet from circulation would confirm for me that your misrepresentation of my words was indeed wholly intentional, and that you are remorseless regarding your falsification of my actual statements.
I expect you to do the honorable thing and immediately withdraw this pamphlet. If you refuse to remove this pamphlet from further circulation, I will be compelled to take action to uphold my right to be accurately quoted for publication.
Rev. Gerald E. Murray, Rome, Italy
sspx.agenda.tripod.com/id93.html (before you whine about the source, it’s a letter from Fr. Murray, not Bill Grossklass)
 
Now onto Cardinal Castillo Lara:
Cardinal Castillo Lara, J.C.D., President of the Pontifical Commission for the Authentic Interpretation of Canon Law, explained that, “The act of consecrating a bishop (without the Pope’s permission) is not in itself a schismatic act”, and so no exommunication applies. (La Repubblica, October 7, 1988).
The real Cardinal Lara puts the record straight
The first thing we did was to write to Cardinal Lara, explaining that he was being quoted as stating that Archbishop Lefebvre was not in schism, and asking him to clarify exactly what he had stated on the occasion in question. Cardinal Lara’s reply was as follows:
"You bring to my attention a matter of importance. You asked if I could tell you what exactly I said in the interview of 10th July 1988. The substance of what I said is as follows:'In the case of Lefebvre and the four priests consecrated bishops by him, there are two offenses canonically speaking, that they have committed. The fundamental offense is that of schism, that is, refusing submission to the Roman Pontiff and breaking communion with the Church. This offence they had already previously committed. Only that, now, the second offense, that of consecrating bishops, formalizes, in a certain sense, and concretizes the first, and makes it explicit. Schism is a delict which can be personal. It does not require having a number of people. Individuals can do it on their own. Lefebvre and his followers, inasmuch as they refused submission to the Pope, were already, by that fact itself, in schism. The intent of the act of consecrating bishops is already to create a church with its own hierarchy. In this sense, the consecration of bishops becomes an act of schism. One should keep in mind, however, that the act of consecrating bishops is not in itself a schismatic act. In fact, in the Code, where offenses are treated, these two are treated in two distinct headings. There are delicts against religion and the unity of the Church. And these are apostasy (i.e. renouncing the faith), schism and heresy. Consecrating a bishop without pontifical mandate is, on the other hand, an offense against the proper exercise of one’s ministry. For example, there was an excommunication of the Vietnamese Archbishop, Ngo Dinh Thuc in '76 and '83 for an episcopal consecration, but it was not considered a schismatic act because there was no intent to break with the Church. Ngo Dinh Thuc represents a pitiable situation, as there is some mental imbalance.
With regard to Econe, Lefebvre and the four priests, they are under two excommunications: one for the offense of schism, the other, reserved to the Apostolic See, for the offense of consecrating a bishop without a pontifical mandate.’ I hope that this is helpful for you." (Letter to John Beaumont, dated May 26th, 1993).
We next obtained a copy of the report in La Repubblica. We found that Cardinal Lara’s statement to us was virtually word for word what he was reported as saying by La Repubblica (in the latter the cardinal then went on to answer other questions put to him by a journalist concerning the Lefebvre case).
From a Fidelity article:
sspx.agenda.tripod.com/id20.html
 
Count Neri Capponi, D.Cn.L., LLD, the retired Professor of Canon Law at the University of Florence, well-known in Vatican legal circles and accredited to argue cases before Rome’s highest juridical body, the Apostolic Signatura, explains that for a schismatic act, it is not enough to merely consecrate a bishop without papal permission. “He must do something more. For instance, had he set up a hierarchy of his own, then it would have been a schismatic act. The fact is that Msgr. Lefebvre simply said: ‘I am creating bishops in order that my priestly order can continue. They do not take the place of other bishops. I am not creating a parallel church.’ Therefore this act was not, per se, schismatic” and so he is not excommunicated. (Latin Mass Magazine, May-June 1993).
As for Count Capponi:

Here’s the rest of the interview with Count Capponi:
McCaffrey: “My own view is that no matter what you can say about 1988, the fact is that by 1990 or '91, three Lefebvre bishops consecrated another bishop for the diocese of Campos, Brazil. And they can play with words, but the fact is that the Pope had appointed a bishop to the diocese of Campos. Now the Lefebvre bishops said: ‘We’re consecrating this bishop for traditional Catholics in Campos, he’s not claiming jurisdiction.’ But de facto he is claiming jurisdiction in that diocese. And I claim that is schismatic in tendency - is schismatic. Do you agree?”
Capponi: “I agree perfectly.”
[Count Capponi went on to say] “Not only does this action in Campos definitely have a schismatic flavor about it, but I should say that some attitudes - not of all members of the Society of St. Pius X, but of quite a lot of them - are becoming increasingly schismatic.”
McCaffrey: “Well, let me give you an example. They have actually made a statement about the new code (of Canon Law), saying they don’t adhere to it. And that’s the only code we have - agree?”
Capponi: “Exactly. I think that they exaggerate there. It’s all very well for a jurist to criticize the technical wording of the new code, say that it is imprecise, say that it is ambiguous at times. But not to adhere to the new code is - well, there are schismatic tendencies.”
McCaffrey: “There is such a thing as a ‘spirit of schism’ - and I think there is a spirit of schism among the leaders of the Pius X Society. Do you agree?”
Capponi: “Exactly.”
McCaffrey: "In America, (the interview took place in the Count’s apartment overlooking the Arno River) some will accuse me of aiding and abetting the Lefebvrites because of your response to schism and attending Mass, and fulfilling one’s obligation (the Count had said that if you have a three-ring circus at your church and an SSPX offered Mass was down the street, a Catholic would fulfill his obligation by attending Mass at a Society mission or chapel). In this there is no argument. But, it should be obvious that if one will experience a diminution of the faith because of a steady diet of Novus Ordo nonsense, then one may well also experience a diminution of the faith with respect to an ongoing association with the SSPX because of the content of its sermons, writings and publications. Therefore one must be continually on his guard when around the SSPX.
Capponi: “I don’t mean to be laudatory about the Society of St. Pius X. The Society has many faults. I don’t agree with lots of things that they do. I mean their attitude in moral theology is very strongly Jansenistic. Their attitude is sometimes extremely uncharitable. And, as I say, there’s a strong spirit of schism now in the Society that did not exist at the time of Msgr. Lefebvre. In a sense, curiously enough, Msgr. Lefebvre kept that spirit out.”
McCaffrey: “Except at the end. Did you know that after he broke with Rome, he wrote to Archbishop Mayer of Campos, urging him to consecrate a bishop for the diocese of Campos?”
Capponi: “That is going in the schismatic direction.” [6]
There’s also more interesting things in this article that addresses all listed in post I’ve been responding to.

matt1618.freeyellow.com/treatise8.html
 
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