What precisely Is the "self"?

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Mental activity is more significant than physical actions.

There is no evidence that **all **mental activity has a physical origin requires bodies…
Mental activity is more significant than physical activity, but itself requires a physical process, to wit, in the head, and in the body to subserve that head.

There is no more evidence for disembodied minds, any more than there is for mind requiring a body. In fact, there is empirical evidence that **human **mentation does not go on without a sufficiently functional body.

ICXC NIKA
 
If we are bodies it doesn’t make sense to refer to “our” bodies. Bodies would belong to nobody! They would just happen to exist… words would just happen for no reason or purpose… and nothing would make sense… including:
Nonsequiutur.

Although I am a body, I sometimes need to verbally distinguish between the physical self, and the mind that is subserved by it. The physical self and the mind have distinct needs and prerogatives, although they are inseparable.

One could also conjecture that it is only the brutal fact of death that gives rise to the mind body problem. In death, there is no more person, only “his or her body”. This creates the sense that mind and body are separate; they are not; it is the LIFE that is missing; only a living body can hold a mind.

ICXC NIKA
 
There is no evidence that **all **mental activity has a physical origin and requires bodies…
 
If the mind is only the cognitive process what is the source of voluntary decisions and actions?
For some reason metaphysicians love to use “the will” as a buzzword. It really isn’t one.

There is no reason why a reflexive cognitive process, centered in a moving, thinking live body, could not have desires and reflect and act on them.

ICXC NIKA
 
Nonsequiutur.

Although I am a body, I sometimes need to verbally distinguish between the physical self, and the mind that is subserved by it. The physical self and the mind have distinct needs and prerogatives, although they are inseparable.
It needs to be proved that the mind and body are inseparable…
One could also conjecture that it is only the brutal fact of death that gives rise to the mind body problem. In death, there is no more person, only “his or her body”. This creates the sense that mind and body are separate; they are not; it is the LIFE that is missing; only a living body can hold a mind.
If that is the case it follows that God has a body - given that we are made in the image of God… 🙂
 
For some reason metaphysicians love to use “the will” as a buzzword. It really isn’t one.

There is no reason why a reflexive cognitive process, centered in a moving, thinking live body, could not have desires and reflect and act on them.
Where would the voluntary aspect come in? Is the will an illusion?
 
It needs to be proved that the mind and body are inseparable…

If that is the case it follows that God has a body - given that we are made in the image of God… 🙂
It would likewise be necessary to prove that the mind is a spirit. I don’t imagine proof either way being forthcoming.

And God does, of course, have a body; that is what Incarnation implies. You’d never see Him if He didn’t. Seeing implies something to reflect light. Like a BODY!

ICXC NIKA
 
It would likewise be necessary to prove that the mind is a spirit. I don’t imagine proof either way being forthcoming.

And God does, of course, have a body; that is what Incarnation implies. You’d never see Him if He didn’t. Seeing implies something to reflect light. Like a BODY!
Did God have a body before the Incarnation?

Jesus said God is Spirit…
 
Where would the voluntary aspect come in? Is the will an illusion?
To an extent, our idea of the will is an illusion.

The will is not something perfect and independent and wholly, indubitably free.

It is the thinking body’s, or breathing mind’s, propensity to act on knowledge it has gained, both of itself and of the world.

ICXC NIKA
 
To an extent, our idea of the will is an illusion.

The will is not something perfect and independent and wholly, indubitably free.

It is the thinking body’s, or breathing mind’s, propensity to act on knowledge it has gained, both of itself and of the world.
A propensity is not a basis for responsibility.
 
A propensity is not a basis for responsibility.
You just brought in a new buzzword.

Responsibility is a factor assigned by the mind (or by others, eg the general society). It is not something separable from mentation.

Metaphysicians consider the will to be independent and perfect, but even civil society allows for “diminished responsibility.”

ICXC NIKA
 
If the self is an impostor, Robert, the mind is not only unselfish but selfless or evil! 😉
You need to take into account that in certain Eastern religions, the ‘self’ is considered evil and is eliminated.from the mind. 🙂
 
The exact relationship is still a matter of dispute even among Christians.
But I think that’s a different question concerning how the mind interacts with the body, and I would agree that this is not clear. But the question of what the mind is comparative to the brain is not a mystery once you recognise the absurdity that would result if one believes that the mind is identical in nature to the brain. Its like saying that ink is identical to the meaning found in written words. This should be enough to bring that question to a close.

Not to mention that all rational will to the truth and any attempt to have a truly rational conversation that can end in genuine acknowledgement of truth becomes logically impossible. Science becomes impossible. In fact you have to presuppose a real distinction between the nature of the rational mind and the nature of the brain before we can even proceed to have rational conversations. Do you see what I am saying?

The whole mind body debate is irrational to begin with since it is impossible to rationally know or acknowledge any truth if the mental activities in our brains are fundamentally made-up of non-rational activity.
 
tonyrey wrote:
I agree with most of your statements but if a person is not the same self he was how can he be responsible for what he has done?
A dog doesn’t have a “self”. He has no intellect and will.

Man’s habits of good and evil are part of what he is because quality is also a substance. God is goodness. God is love.

A man’s body and soul don’t change, but his habits can change. So his self can change in quality, but it’s still the same soul and the person has responsibility for his actions.
 
Self is a conscious device we use to protect our interests. All animals in varying degrees share this sense of self. It is virtually impossible to be a thinking and feeling human being without having a sense of self. One cannot have a sense of self without knowing that other “selfs” exist. Sometimes we make our self supreme (egoism); other times we direct it to serve the interest of others (altruism). The self can absorb both truth and lies, but in humans its function is to distinguish one from the other. In this it is not always successful, sometimes preferring lies to the truth, just as it may prefer evil to good. It follows that the self is a kind of battlefield on which warring factions strive to prevail. The self seeks peace when constant strife threatens its safety or very existence. This is why in Christianity the self is finally at rest in God. The physical locus of the self originates in the human brain. But this brain is nurtured by metaphysical forces that impose themselves upon it. Consciousness of God, human destiny, and the laws of mathematics are such forces which cannot be explained away merely by reference to the self-consciousness of of brain cells.
 
Self is a conscious device we use to protect our interests. All animals in varying degrees share this sense of self. It is virtually impossible to be a thinking and feeling human being without having a sense of self. One cannot have a sense of self without knowing that other “selfs” exist. Sometimes we make our self supreme (egoism); other times we direct it to serve the interest of others (altruism). The self can absorb both truth and lies, but in humans its function is to distinguish one from the other. In this it is not always successful, sometimes preferring lies to the truth, just as it may prefer evil to good. It follows that the self is a kind of battlefield on which warring factions strive to prevail. The self seeks peace when constant strife threatens its safety or very existence. This is why in Christianity the self is finally at rest in God. The physical locus of the self originates in the human brain. But this brain is nurtured by metaphysical forces that impose themselves upon it. Consciousness of God, human destiny, and the laws of mathematics are such forces which cannot be explained away merely by reference to the self-consciousness of of brain cells.
Are you just speculating here (it’s OK but should be cited as speculation) or do you have a source you can share?
 
Robert
**
Are you just speculating here (it’s OK but should be cited as speculation) or do you have a source you can share? **

It’s self reflecting on the self! 👍
 
The things our bodies do, the way our bodies act in the world is really the substantial basis upon which our ‘selves’ are built - we can have all the thoughts we like, but what do they mean if they do not result in action? Action requires bodies.
Very nice. I am a body. I am not two entities - a cogito and an “external” body. Just one entity - a body, a human body. But this body is mine, and not someone’s else’s. Where does the sense of “mineness” come from?

This question leads into another question. What is the meaning of “person”?

We know that a “human being” has traditionally been defined in terms of a genus and a specific difference (“rational animal”), and so designates an instantiation of a concept, a member of a class.

A “person” is a “human being” and is thus a member of a class.

But a “person” qua “that person” is not a member of a class, is not a “sortal” noun, is not definable in terms of a genus and specific difference, or a set of concepts.

Consider John Doe. Granted that he is a human being and, as such, is a member of a class, and is definable in terms of a genus and a specific difference, or some set of criteria used to identify human beings qua human beings.

But John Doe qua John Doe, not qua a human being, is not definable in terms of a genus and specific difference. There is no class or category of John Doe’s; John Doe is not an instantiation of a “John Doe” concept that could apply to other particulars. “John Doe” is not a sortal noun.

John Doe is unrepeatable and totally unique (qua John Doe).

That’s why there’s a big problem with proper names in logic.

And isn’t this why “self” is such a philosophical conundrum?

So, again, where does my sense of “mineness”, of being totally unique and unrepeatable, come from?
 
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