What Protestants believe

[alabaster]

Can anybody help me with this? I will be Catholic as of this Easter, and my protestant friends are worried. Specifically, they believe that Catholics believe that we can “buy” our way into heaven by good works.
When I ask them to show me where this doctrine is written down as a Catholic teaching, they fall back on the “everyone knows that about the Catholic church” type of reasoning. So where is the reasoning that “everyone knows”?
I ask this to refute it, as I know it to be false.

 

[jbarry]

Hello … first timer here.

You may have a great opportunity to give them a Catechism of the Catholic Church and ask them to find the “everybody knows” position… They will get to see for themselves.

Other than that, I really enjoy listening to the radio archives. Go there and start the ‘Search’ and for Description, type in ‘works’. It brought up a show entitled “Faith, Works or Both”. (No, I haven’t listened to that one) but I’ve hear Bob Sungenis and he is likely to air out the issue for you really well.

Praised be Jesus.

 

[Trishie]

Tell your Protestant friends to look up Matthew 25 verses 31-46.
Jesus can tell them in His own words that He expects kind acts of us if we want to be saved.

 

[Trishie]

In case they don’t have their bible handy, here are Jesus wordsthat prove that we are saved by faith with works:

“The Last Judgement”
“When the Son of Man comes in all His glory, escorted by all the angels, then he will take his seat on his throne of glory. All the nations will be assembled before him and he will separate men from one another as the shepherd separates sheep from goats.
He will place the sheep on his right hand and the goats on his left. then the King shall say to those on his right hand,” Come you whom my Father has blessed, take for your heritage the kingdom prepared for you since the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food; I was a stranger and you made me welcome. I was thristy and you gave me drink; I was a stranger and you made me welcome; naked and you clothed me; sick and you visited me, in prison and you came to see me.

Then the virtuous will say to him in reply, "Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you; or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you hungry and feed you; or thirsty and give you drink? When did we see you a stranger and make you welcome; naked and clothe you; sick or in prison and go to see you?

And the King will answer, " I tell you solemnly, in so far as you did this to one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did it to me."

Next he will say to those on his left “Go away from me with your curse upon you, to the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels, for when I was hungry you never gave me food; I was thirsty and you never gave me anything to drink; I was a stranger and you never made me welcome, naked and you never clothed me, sick and in prison and you never visited me.”
Then it will be their turn to ask, “Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty; a stranger or naked, sick or in prison, and not come to your help?”
Then he will answer, “I tell you solemnly, in so far as you neglected to do this to one of the least of these, you neglected to do it to me.” And they will go away to eternal punishment, and the virtuous to eternal life.

 

[Trishie]

From Scripture supporting that good works as well as faith is required for our entry into heaven is the following.

"Take the case, my brothers of someone who has never done a single good act but claims that he has faith. Will that faith save him? If one of the brothers or one of the sisters is in need of clothes and has not enough food to live on, and one of you says to them, ‘I wish you well; keep yourself warm and eat plenty’, without giving them these bare necessities of llife, then what good is that?: if good works do not go with it, it is quite dead.
This is the way to talk to people of that kind:'You say you have faith and I have good deeds; I will prove to you that I have faith by showing you my good deeds–now you prove to me that you have faith without any good deeds to show.

You believe in one God–that is creditable enough, but the demons have the same belief, and they tremble with fear. Do realise, you senseless man, that faith without works is useless. You surely know that Abraham our Father was justified by his deed, because he offered Isaac on the altar? There you see it; faith and good deeds were working together; his faith became perfect by what he did. This is what scripture really means when it says: Abraham put his faith in God, and this was counted as making him justified; and that is why he was called the friend of God. You see now that it is by doing something good, and not only by believing, that a man is justified." [James 2: 14-24]

“It is not those who call me ‘Lord, Lord’ who will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the person who does the will of my father in heaven.” [Matthew 7:21]
“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ but not do what I command? I will show you what someone is like who comes to me, listens to my words, and acts on them.
That one is like a person building a house, who dug deeply and laid the foundation on rock; when the flood came, the river burst against that house but could not shake it because it had been well built. But the one who listens and does not act is like a person who built a house on the ground without a foundation. When the river burst against it, it collapsed at once and was completely destroyed.” [Luke 6:45-49]
“Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption; but he who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. And let us not grow weary in well-doing, for in due season we shall reap, if we do not lose heart.” [Galations 6:7-9]

 

[wardrandolph]

Trishie,you are 100% correct.Also Ja.2:14-26.

 

[Dhugz]

We Catholics, we are in the True Church of Christ. . We all know that the claims of protestants are untrue and false. Their doctrines is the product of loose faith to Jesus Christ and to his Church. They interpret the bible on their own, they didnt consider or they avoid to study the history and the true tradition of early Christians or the Roman Catholic Church. . . Before we attack the Church, or before we consult other Churches, consult first or ask the Catholic Priest, for they are the Authourized To teach, to answer about the Truth of The Church doctrines, the Truth about Jesus Christ and God’s will.

 

[teachccd]

We only get to heaven by the merits of the death of Christ on the cross. Our good works crown this gift of redemption and are therefore a very necessary part of our salvation as noted by the posters above. So in Catholicism we know that a faith without works is dead (see James 2:26) therefore both faith AND works are necessary for salvation. No more than a Protestant would say that having great faith is a form of “buying” their way into heaven would a Catholic say that good works buys them heaven. We are saved by the grace of God, through faith and that faith can only be a saving faith if it is accompainied by love. (Galatians 5:6) So, as Catholics, we do not and never did “buy” our way into heaven. Your friends are wrong and they should not cheat themselves by continuing to believe such lies…teachccd

 

[manualman]

Strictly speaking, we aren’t saved by EITHER faith OR works. We are saved by the GRACE of God. It is a gift He gives to us. He has chosen to give it on the basis of the faith that we hold that becomes manifest in how we live our lives.

This is VERY different than us ‘earning’ or ‘deserving’ salvation through either faith or works.

Do you see the difference?

Catholicism has rejected the idea of earning salvation through works for CENTURIES before Martin Luther (the first real protestant) was born. Look up the heresy of “Presumption” in the catholic encyclopedia.

Good luck with your friends. Don’t expect them to readily understand or agree and don’t try to ‘win’ an argument with them on the subject (just explain your position and refuse to be baited). Expect to need a lot of patience and forebearance and pray for it!

 

[MarieCB]

Do you know what confuses me about this entire argument?

This thread so far (ie., the arguments for faith with works, etc) sound JUST LIKE many sermons I’ve heard from Protestant churches. Faith without works is useless, works without faith are empty. Work out your salvation … The tree is known by its fruit …

We can only be saved by God’s grace through faith in Jesus Christ. The salvation is by faith alone. A person could do all the good works they want, but without that faith - and the grace of God - it’s impossible to be saved.

However, once saved, an “aspiration to holiness” should follow. Sanctification leads to a regeneration of the spirit. A tree is known by its fruit, and if one is not showing the fruit of the Holy Spirit, well … I seem to remember Jesus being pretty harsh regarding a tree with no fruit.

There’s such a wide variation, though, in what Protestants believe.

However, with that said, I’ve personally known many Catholics who have insisted, “Of course I’m a Christian and I’m going to heaven. I was baptized and confirmed.” And then, immediately after Confirmation, stopped all contact with the Church and led a completely depraved and unChristian life. To Protestants, that seems ludicrous.

I know an older man who faithfully attends Mass every Sunday and considers himself a “good Catholic” (his words). When I asked him about the rosary and where he bought his, he said, “Hey, I’m a good Catholic, not a fanatic.” (He doesn’t have one, because he doesn’t feel he needs one) When I asked him if he wanted me to order some Fatima items for his very elderly mother, he said, “just because she’s old, doesn’t mean she believes all of those fairy tales.”

I chatted with a Gray nun who told me that she didn’t believe most of the Bible and she thought St. Paul was … well, rather less than worthy of sainthood.

I don’t believe that most Protestants are purposely trying to malign Catholicism, but I’ve known a lot of Catholics and I’ve only personally met ONE who was as devout and serious about his faith as the people I’ve been meeting online. One. So, to Protestants, it often seems as though Catholics believe that faith and belief are unnecessary.

 

[Tinkerbell]

I know an older man who faithfully attends Mass every Sunday and considers himself a “good Catholic” (his words). When I asked him about the rosary and where he bought his, he said, “Hey, I’m a good Catholic, not a fanatic.” (He doesn’t have one, because he doesn’t feel he needs one) ."

Catholics do not believe it is necessary to OWN or recite a rosary to get to heaven.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Specifically, they believe that Catholics believe that we can “buy” our way into heaven by good works.

Alabaster:

Look at it this way, as a child your parents bought you your food and clothing. They also gave you (note the word “gave” as in a gift) your allowance. In turn, out of love for your parents and a sense of family, you had chores to do around the house. Consider these chores “good works”. Now one day, your mother was too busy to take you to the store and you needed a coat for the new school year, so she gave you a hundred dollar bill and sent you to the store.

Please answer the following questions (or better still, have your Protestant friends answer them.)

Who bought your new coat? a.) your father who earned the money; b.) your mother who gave you the money; c.) you because you paid the store clerk for it; or d.) the tooth fairy left it under your pillow. (answer: a and b)

Did you buy your membership in the family by performing chores around the house? (answer: no)

When you used your allowance to buy things, since the money you used was a gift from your parents, did you really buy those things or were they in fact all gift? (answer: gift)

This is where Protestants become confused and say that Catholics try to “buy” salvation usually through “good works”. What they fail to understand is that what good works we manage to do are done out of love for God and are done only by God’s grace. Any merit we have came not from our works but from God’s grace, just as our salvation is God’s grace, and grace cannot be earned or given…

 

[Erich]

From Assurance of Salvation:

“As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I *will be *saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13).”

 

[alabaster]

Thanks to all of you who replied to my post. I have received really good and thought provoking answers.
Just as an aside, should we not have a “banging my head against a brick wall” icon for all of these “everybody knows that Catholics believe” situations?

 

[Newbie2]

Thanks to all of you who replied to my post. I have received really good and thought provoking answers.
Just as an aside, should we not have a “banging my head against a brick wall” icon for all of these “everybody knows that Catholics believe” situations?

:banghead:

We do.

 

[yesukristus]

I know an older man who faithfully attends Mass every Sunday and considers himself a “good Catholic” (his words). When I asked him about the rosary and where he bought his, he said, “Hey, I’m a good Catholic, not a fanatic.” (He doesn’t have one, because he doesn’t feel he needs one) ."
Catholics do not believe it is necessary to OWN or recite a rosary to get to heaven.

Yes it is not necessary to own or recite a rosary to get to heaven. But the old man’s response to praying the rosary is that it’s for fanatics only. Obviously that would not be a devout Catholic’s response. I wonder what else he considers for fanatic Catholics only…

 

[VociMike]

Can anybody help me with this? I will be Catholic as of this Easter, and my protestant friends are worried. Specifically, they believe that Catholics believe that we can “buy” our way into heaven by good works.

Ask them if they “buy” their way into heaven by faith.