What Providence kept out of World Youth Day

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otjm said:
The arches remind me of pictures I have seen of Angels facing each other, with their sings arching over the Christ Child.

Silly me for not seeing devils’ horns.

Then again, given some of the extremely negative (I am trying to be polite) comments by non-attendees of WYD, one should not be surprised that “devils horns” as a concept is making its way around.

Occasionally I am reminded of an old phrase: “Better to keep one’s mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and be proved as one”.
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I agree.

I kinda flinch at the comments of people referring to devil horns on a stage that is meant to be a Catholic place for our Pope.
 
otjm said:
The arches remind me of pictures I have seen of Angels facing each other, with their sings arching over the Christ Child.

Silly me for not seeing devils’ horns.

Then again, given some of the extremely negative (I am trying to be polite) comments by non-attendees of WYD, one should not be surprised that “devils horns” as a concept is making its way around.

Occasionally I am reminded of an old phrase: “Better to keep one’s mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and be proved as one”.
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That’s what I thought of, not devils but the two golden angels over the Ark of the Covenant in the Jerusalem Temple. That also led me to think of the two real angels they forshadow, the ones in Christ’s empty tomb who tell the women that He has risen.



-Tim-
 
I really don’t have a problem with it. You have to remember that an artist’s rendering of the final place is usually not exactly what it will look like when it is all said and done and everyone is in there. Plus, designing a church is one thing. Designing a place to have Mass for THAT MANY PEOPLE is quite another. Design elements must be minimal enough to allow for everyone to see and participate and to be safe for fire codes and things like that.

If I were the artist, I would probably connect the two things in front to form an arch to depict the Cross on the hill. We see lots of interpretations of the Cross, but few on the hill. It would be an interesting and unique way to present it.
 
I would attend a heavy metal concert at that church. Anyone have the concert schedule?
 
JReducation said:
As to the design, that’s where I say practice gentleness in your critiques. Remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions and very often traveled by whiners and critics.
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Or by well-meaning architects and designers, Brother. 😃
 
I think its important to remember that things like this are more a matter of taste than dogma. Modern art and architecture are extremely popular in Central and South America. For us from Western European backgrounds we might not like it, but for millions of other Catholics it has meaning. I think we should be a little more restrained in our judgments since its not our culture and we don’t always understand how they view things.

A few posters commented that it looks like Krypton. To us yes, to them maybe not so much. Are the Superman movies well known in that region of the world? It is possible that neither the designer nor the majority of the population have any idea what we’re talking about when we say it looks like Superman’s Fortress of Solitude.
 
NewEnglandPriest said:
I think its important to remember that things like this are more a matter of taste than dogma. Modern art and architecture are extremely popular in Central and South America. For us from Western European backgrounds we might not like it, but for millions of other Catholics it has meaning. I think we should be a little more restrained in our judgments since its not our culture and we don’t always understand how they view things.

A few posters commented that it looks like Krypton. To us yes, to them maybe not so much. Are the Superman movies well known in that region of the world? It is possible that neither the designer nor the majority of the population have any idea what we’re talking about when we say it looks like Superman’s Fortress of Solitude.
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Lol, yes South America is familiar with Superman and Krypton.

Other than that, great post! I personally think it looks beautiful… 👍
 
Debora123 said:
Lol, yes South America is familiar with Superman and Krypton.
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OK, I stand corrected. I once had a spanish parishioner ask me if the pictures of leprechauns were pictures of St. Patrick :eek:. So I don’t take it for granted that other cultures are familiar with western European images…
 
NewEnglandPriest said:
OK, I stand corrected. I once had a spanish parishioner ask me if the pictures of leprechauns were pictures of St. Patrick :eek:. So I don’t take it for granted that other cultures are familiar with western European images…
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Haha yeah leprechauns are unfamiliar, you are correct. 🙂
 
To those who are critical of the design, what should it have looked like? A replica of Notre Dame? I’m not a fan of church renovations that seem to eliminate anything Catholic and find some modern churches to be lacking in the elements of a Catholic church that Michael S. Rose wrote about (verticality, permanence, and iconography.) However, this event had many different things going on and the venue needed to serve different purposes and also needed to be visually striking from a distance. I don’t think it needed to look like an actual church or like the sentimental artwork on a old prayer card in order to inspire.
 
I think some here may have rather high expectations for what is, after all, a stage. While I, like many on this forum, prefer the older styles of church architecture (rectangular and not half-circle for one…) to the newer, bare-bones stuff, this event did not call for that.The purpose and function of this stage are ultimately quite distinct from that of Notre Dame de Montreal or St. Peter’s. Also, I am curious about how exactly some of the critics here would have liked a more conservative style implemented. Any use of marble columns or a huge carved reredos would have been kind of wasteful in my opinion, considering that it is essentially a one-use structure, and furthermore they would not have given as striking and image from a distance, which is a necessity at a mass for 3,000,000. Ultimately, the lack of intricate details and foibles on this structure serve to both prevent waste and provide a more striking image from a distance.
 
JReducation said:
We have to be gentle folks. As St. Augustine tells us, we must always look for the good. I’m glad that the event took place in a more centrally located part of the city. I have never been to Rio, so the name of the original site said nothing to me. But if it was the case that it’s so far and difficult to reach, it was not a practical choice to begin.

As to the design, that’s where I say practice gentleness in your critiques. Remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions and very often traveled by whiners and critics.

I remember all the negative criticism that people posted when they saw the original design for the stage in London for the beatification of Bl. John Newman. When I saw the drawing, I thought it looked a little Treki too. However, when I arrived there and saw it, it was beautiful. It was not St. Paul’s cathedral, but it was not meant to be that. It was a modern structure.

However, it was functional, comfortable and aesthetically pleasing. The sketches don’t always do these things justice. My thinking is that the background is missing in the sketch. Colors are not well represented and you make changes as you build the thing. The sketch is not always the final product.

Euthanasia is a grave sin. 🙂 We have to be careful not to condemn something to death before its time. :yup:

I saw a view of the Rio cathedral as the helicopters flew over it. My reaction was not positive. The brothers who went and are still there, tell me that inside, it is stunning. From the air, it’s not a positive stunning. I have no idea how it looks from the ground. I’ve only seen pictures. I’d have to see it live.

The point is, like Augustine, look for the good and be slow to find the bad.
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Whiners and critics of an event that has been instituted by and sanctioned by the Church.

I’d like to know how many of the whingers have actually attended this event.
 
simple_soul said:
Thank you for sharing the link. I should have known and recognized the organ pipes. I like the folded hands for the arch. Now I envision them as being Our Blessed Mother Mary’s and Jesus’ hands praying for us. 🙂
I don’t really know much about what one style or type of art is called compared to another. It must help when seeing art and being able to see this elements and roots in it. Thank you for sharing that.
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You’re welcome 🙂 I promised myself that I’ll add some examples of Brazilian churches. Here they are - you’ll recognize a lot of elements.

St Francis of Assisi Church, Pampulha - years '40
goo.gl/DrtaF2
goo.gl/atAjUx

Cathedral of Stone, Canela - years '60-'80
goo.gl/RhT06y
goo.gl/jFie4o

Cathedral of Rio de Janeiro - years '60-'70
goo.gl/TCblo0
goo.gl/SvAia2

Cathedral of Brasilia - years '70
goo.gl/uLMjgM
goo.gl/6lYuzv

Cathedral of Maringá - years '70
goo.gl/RYNIMV
goo.gl/MM58Ot
 
I think one of the problems here is that one of the hallmarks of modern style art, architecture and design is that it is self-referential. For instance, a person looking at a modern style painting is usually intended to have their attention drawn to the fact that they are looking at a painting, as oppossed to having their attention drawn into the subject of the painting. Its the same with modern architecture and design, the viewer is usually intended to have their attention drawn to the fact that are looking at architecture, rather than to the artistic idea (the “subject”) that the architecture conveys.

This is a problem when the art or architecture in question is religious in nature, because the purpose of religious art/architecture should be to draw our attention past itself and to its “subject”, which is God or the transcendent. With a modern design like this stage, our attention is drawn to architectural ideas, like lines vs curves, architectual space, etc, not necessarily to the subject of God.

I think this is why a number of us are reacting negatively to this stage; since it is modern in style it tends towards architecture for the sake of architecture, not architechture for the sake of God.
 
McCall1981 said:
I think one of the problems here is that one of the hallmarks of modern style art, architecture and design is that it is self-referential. For instance, a person looking at a modern style painting is usually intended to have their attention drawn to the fact that they are looking at a painting, as oppossed to having their attention drawn into the subject of the painting. Its the same with modern architecture and design, the viewer is usually intended to have their attention drawn to the fact that are looking at architecture, rather than to the artistic idea (the “subject”) that the architecture conveys.

This is a problem when the art or architecture in question is religious in nature, because the purpose of religious art/architecture should be to draw our attention past itself and to its “subject”, which is God or the transcendent. With a modern design like this stage, our attention is drawn to architectural ideas, like lines vs curves, architectual space, etc, not necessarily to the subject of God.

I think this is why a number of us are reacting negatively to this stage; since it is modern in style it tends towards architecture for the sake of architecture, not architechture for the sake of God.
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Yes, but how are you supposed to put the focus on the subject when the altar-stage is going to be viewed from such a distance? The answer, in my opinion, is by way of simple, dis-ornamented figures. It would doubtless have been more beautiful to have a number of altar panels portraying the Stations or some such, but what’s the point when no one can see them? Besides, I think you are overstating by saying that it is impossible to see God as the subject of these altars.

One thing that does bother me about both structures is the absence of a crucifix–there are only crosses. It seems dubious to me that it would have been too difficult to fabricate a simple Christ-figure that would have stayed in line with the minimalist design of the altar without costing too much.
 
Ive been praying and pondering about this and I believe that if one looks at this stage and can not see how it draws past itself to Jesus I honestly beleive they themselves are the ones who are not looking past the architecture. It is they who are looking at the architecture and making it the subject. If they weren’t they would be able to look past it and see how it does point to God and His Mysteries.

You know, I caught something the other day on TV, I believe it was CarholicTV out of Boston, it was some kind of program and in it they were talking about Merton, I believe his name is Thomas Merton. I have never read his works and do not know much about him except for reading his name referenced in a post now and then. But anyway. they were talking about him and how every one he saw he saw beauty in them and he genuinely loved them for who they were. In that moment where they are in thier journey to God. Well I believe that was what they were saying about him. The other thing they said he said is that ones idea of God tells more about the person than about God. In the first part I beleve this is what he is saying. He found beauty in every one. In the last part I believe what he is saying is that if we see God as a condemning God then we are going to go around seeing things in people that we condemn them for thinking it is God who is condemning them for the perceived sins. If we go around seeing the good in others and not condemning them for their perceived sins we are showing them mercy thinking it is God is showing them Mercy. Maybe a better way of saying it is if we know God as having un-condemning love and mercy then we are going to see everyone with un-condemning love and mercy. If we know God as condemning us for every mistake or wrong move we make or might make we see we are going to see every one and what everyone does the same way.

Understanding this is making me wonder if this is what is happening with this architecture and the architects who make them. We are either going to condemn it for everything that is perceived wrong with it or we are going to see what all was good about it and for give any imperfections in it.
 
World Youth Day 2013 in Rio is over unfortunately, but the celebration continues on the Vatican’s new website. Pope Francis is trying to get the youth more involved in the Church and he is doing so by taking the Catholic Church digital! If you guys are interested in World Youth Day or getting the youth more involved with the church go to the new website Pray With the Pope and see for yourself what it is all about
 
I thought the Church of Steel looked really cool. The pillars behind it all remind me of the Heavenly Host, ready to give homage to our Lord in the Eucharist.
 
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