What questions can only be answered by Christianity?

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Thank you for the praise and the… encouragement?
Micorhizea said:
I am always truck by one glaring contrast: I am very much in awe of the effort and energy they have devoted to the conversion of many people, in the course of which they acquired experiences which yielded what anyone would call virtues, such as persistence, devotion. forbearance, patience, charity, etc., etc. But the theology they are promoting??? to me, very highly questionable. In fact, it is pretty clear to me that the missionary program of that church is designed to forge believers by means of exhorting the young 'uns to go forth and save people from hellfire by means of feeding them God’s Truth–which they thoroughly from infancy if they are part of any such devout family.
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I don’t think the missionary project is as much for the recipients as it is for the missionaries. When you go out and have to defend your beliefs to strangers, it forces you to question things you had simply assumed, practice finding answers for things, and build interpersonal skills.
This makes the Mormons articulate and well-reasoning, especially for their age, when the go out into the world. As you quoted “Preach always; use words if necessary.” These people will seem appealing to those around them, and therein lies the second wave of their ministry.
It’s a beautiful system, almost like the Starship Troopers of religion, where by requiring federal service to advance, they culture their membership.
 
LJH_80 said:
Thank you for the praise and the… encouragement?

I don’t think the missionary project is as much for the recipients as it is for the missionaries. When you go out and have to defend your beliefs to strangers, it forces you to question things you had simply assumed, practice finding answers for things, and build interpersonal skills.
This makes the Mormons articulate and well-reasoning, especially for their age, when the go out into the world. As you quoted “Preach always; use words if necessary.” These people will seem appealing to those around them, and therein lies the second wave of their ministry.
It’s a beautiful system, almost like the Starship Troopers of religion, where by requiring federal service to advance, they culture their membership.
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Yep, precisely what I mean. There is a certain kind of aura that comes with conviction that is independent of contents. And this is why I am always far more concerned with what might be considered the DOS of how people work than what they purport to believe. Belief is always contents. I’m ony really interested in the nature of the container independent of what concoctions folks put in it and mistake for reality. It isn’t at that level, however useful that might be either by consensus and its comfort or actual correspondence to reality as it is by Divine order beyond belief about it. That’s why I consider the contemplatives (not mystics so much) as more useful than dogma and precepts. But that is another book. 🙂
 
Micorhizea said:
It is said that if you put 20 words together in a coherent English sentence, you have said something that no one else ever has. That’s a fun factoid. But you bring focus to one of my favorite topics and pet peeves: critical thinking, or the astonishing lack of it, even in people who came through the Catholic school system as I did.

For me, the use of critical thinking is paramount, but it ought, in my view, go as well with personal maturity. Both appear to be hard to come by these days. I may be wrong, but that is what I see from the media and most social contact I have. I can count my friends on about one hand. You can imagine why. But you’d be wrong, lol!

But levity aside, it is possible to categorize human maturity into roughly nine levels, each with its fulcrum of transformation. At each point the nature of the awareness transforms, growing into a new level which is different and yet includes the previous level. As a race, we are not doing too well on that chart, being emotionally mostly stuck somewhere between two and twelve years old.

This is mostly due to a serious lack of introspection and examination of unconscious memes inherited from family, friends, and society as we grow up, all inculcated before the age of seven, and most of it non verbal. We are also entrenched in the belief the our personal view completely comprehends reality and all its dynamics. Until some sort of shock literally knocks one out of their personal belief system, we have nary a clue that any of that is going on or that it even exist, save for a few who might intellectually understand the significance of that dynamic. For someone who experiences it, it is a world and soul transforming event. And while that happens, I believe, to many, it is overall a rare thing, usually misinterpreted, and the person who goes through that is likely to become a pink monkey amongst brown ones and have his life in danger if he speaks.

All that is to say that I applaud your skepticism and valuing of critical thinking. I can only encourage you to become more active in this area. Git 'er done! 🙂
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I cannot understand your perception. You mention “memes” and then state them to be non verbal. A meme is a thought process translated by repetition, troan horse and or cognitave dissonance that require words.
 
CopticChristian said:
I cannot understand your perception. You mention “memes” and then state them to be non verbal. A meme is a thought process translated by repetition, troan horse and or cognitave dissonance that require words.
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Not so. A “high five” can be a meme not translated by words, as can the use of chopsticks. These are entities that exist within a mind and may be copied by other minds. And if imperfectly copied, they allow for evolutionary selection (I see someone use chopsticks, I try to emulate, and I might find a way that is better or worse at convincing others to emulate it).
 
It seems that everyone is off track in this thread. In order to discover whether or not your question meets the criterion set forth in the OP, ask yourself “does Islam or Judaism have an answer to this question?”

We are only interested in questions that those religions do not have an answer for.
 
TheTrueCentrist said:
It seems that everyone is off track in this thread. In order to discover whether or not your question meets the criterion set forth in the OP, ask yourself “does Islam or Judaism have an answer to this question?”

We are only interested in questions that those religions do not have an answer for.
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How about: What is the Fundamental Philosophy of Life, which connects philosophy and theology?
 
jochoa said:
How about: What is the Fundamental Philosophy of Life, which connects philosophy and theology?
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That sounds good, but in practice it seems to me that religion as mostly practiced omits the foundational truths except as symbols and pointers. Mind you, that is good, but in some cases it appears to me to be too thick to usefully navigate. Maybe some simplification is in order?
 
Micorhizea said:
That sounds good, but in practice it seems to me that religion as mostly practiced omits the foundational truths except as symbols and pointers. Mind you, that is good, but in some cases it appears to me to be too thick to usefully navigate. Maybe some simplification is in order?
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You stand opposed to a thinker that many including myself respect. Scott Hahn says routinely that good Theology is the most practical Philosophy and aid to living the fullness of life in truth. Whether you practice or not is up to you.

Microsoft Word is a good program and the better you know it and navigate it the more you can do with it. You can write letters, produce brochures, make business cards, print labels…but if you do not investigate the fullness of what it can do then of course if all you do is write letters your practice of the use of microsoft word leads you to conclude that it is only a good word processing device.
 
CopticChristian said:
You stand opposed to a thinker that many including myself respect. Scott Hahn says routinely that good Theology is the most practical Philosophy and aid to living the fullness of life in truth. Whether you practice or not is up to you.

Microsoft Word is a good program and the better you know it and navigate it the more you can do with it. You can write letters, produce brochures, make business cards, print labels…but if you do not investigate the fullness of what it can do then of course if all you do is write letters your practice of the use of microsoft word leads you to conclude that it is only a good word processing device.
Click to expand...
Would you agree with the assessment that the two subjects start at different points?
Jesus didn’t start with the understood wisdom of the time and build a case up to what He taught. He taught the lessons, and in the last 2,000 years, many scholars have devoted their lives to doing the buildup.

That is, philosophy would start with “so we understand these three things about time… and that would mean the universe behaves in this way… which would imply a creator of it cannot be a creation of the universe… and this creator must be self created.”

Whereas religion says “The universe was created by a self-creating deity.” and moves jauntily along. Many scholars have since filled in the space, but the Bible itself doesn’t do that.
 
Micorhizea said:
Maybe some simplification is in order?
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Excellent points my friend! I especially liked the reference to this being a bit too thick to usefully navigate. Please consider the following simplification and development:

The fundamental philosophy of life is the same as the fundamental theology of life and is most simply and elegantly stated by the Holy Bible as: “You shall Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. Love your neighbor as yourself.” From this simple and wise declaration, as well as trying to master this commandment, there is much to be learned and gained. The following are some of the concepts of living which can be learned from the commandment.
-Since this is God’s request for us, He must be perfect at this.
-There must be a purpose of God wanting this from us.
-A hint of the blessings which are to come once in Heaven.
-The blessings which come from mastery while on earth.
-The components, as well as order, of being.
-It must be based on the first philosophy: “Love is greatest, where love is patient and kind.” Because patience generates freedom from disturbance given a world of persons which make mistakes from ignorance, freedom from disturbance is necessary to experience any level of happiness, and kindness generates happiness which is what we all want.
So from developing this commandment, we will get the fundamental of life, including God’s life aka theology.

Development with the basis of first philosophy, the commandment can be defined further as:
You should always be and spread the means to be perfectly patient and kind and motivated for God with all the heart, soul, mind, and strength equally towards others and the self.

Revelation of the components of being from the commandment:
-Heart is the center of the body, and the body feels.
-Soul is the center of the spirit, and the spirit is image, knowledge, and past-actions.
-Mind is the center of the thoughts, and the thoughts think.
-Strength is the center of the will, and the will acts.
-Although the body feeling and thoughts thinking are acts, they are not the fullness of acting/willing until all act in oneness.
Therefore the commandment can be developed further: You should always be and spread the means to be motivated for God with all your body, spirit, thoughts, and will equally towards others as the self.

Revelation of the order of being when coming into existence: First, body. Second, spirit. Third, thoughts. Fourth, will.
From human perspective without consideration of God, we come to exist as a body (single cell) first. Once existing this single cell has a certain appearance, therefore is the first image and first existence of our spirit. Next we have the ability to think because of the generation of the mind. Then from the ability to think and feel, the fullness of our will is revealed by proceeding from our mind and body.
Although the science of God’s existence is different from ours, the order of His existence is the same. My concept of God, the Father’s, existence is: He has a body of a single cell. This cell has the image of the Eucharist, which is an instance of His Spirit. This cell could think of the plan to bring free-willed creations to love as He loves. Then by the procession of the thoughts and body of God, the will caused creation. If you want to know how God is bodiless before this, consider John 1:2 DRB. Although it first states Word(Laws/Nothingness) was first, since it follows with Word with God, God must have already been there for the Word to be with Him. If you need a method to reason that God’s body existed first, refer back to the second question scheme of post #215: Was the first physical/material thing to exist living or nonliving?

Revelation of the blessings which come from mastery while living on earth:
When one is patient and kind and motivated…
…with the body, one’s heart will be filled with peace and happiness and energy.
…with the thoughts, one’s mind will be filled…
…with the will, one’s relationships will be filled…
…with the spirit, one will generate peace and happiness and energy in others.
Given the ignorant nature of humans, as well as the highly selfish living of many, when a person sets out to be perfectly patient and kind in the face of impatience, unkindness, and meanness, s/he will have to sacrifice natural desires/”talents/interests” for the desires of peace and happiness for all, which in turn generates the blessings of perfect happiness with unbreakable peace while on earth.

Revelation of the concept of blessings which are to come in Heaven, and God’s purpose for wanting us to do this:
In the fullness of Heaven (where the resurrected body of Jesus is), everybody lives in perfect alignment with this commandment. And when two or more people live in oneness with these commandments, the blessings become a limitless happiness with unbreakable peace.
Therefore, the purpose of God wanting us to live accordingly is so that He may experience a limitless happiness with an unbreakable peace.

I will follow up with some ideas that share some of the Revelations of God’s Perfection at this commandment.

And given that we are ignorant humans and must grow towards oneness with living perfectly accordingly to the commandment, I have come to interpret the following definition of the commandment:
Always want to learn, perfect, and spread the means to patience and kindness and motivation for God with all the body, spirit, thoughts, and will equally towards others and the self, so that every relationship and the self may experience unbreakable peace, limitless happiness, and unstoppable energy.

Thank you very much my friend for asking for further definition. You have helped make my day better, and I look forward to further discussion.

Thoughts?
 
CopticChristian said:
You stand opposed to a thinker that many including myself respect. Scott Hahn says routinely that good Theology is the most practical Philosophy and aid to living the fullness of life in truth. Whether you practice or not is up to you.

Microsoft Word is a good program and the better you know it and navigate it the more you can do with it. You can write letters, produce brochures, make business cards, print labels…but if you do not investigate the fullness of what it can do then of course if all you do is write letters your practice of the use of microsoft word leads you to conclude that it is only a good word processing device.
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Thank you for the sage advice. I am versatile in MW, as I used it for producing printed material of several varieties. I am also versed in our faith by dint of a rather good Catholic school education in which I did very well both in theory and practice. That has been added to by several decades of comparative religious studies. I’m only saying that to establish that I’m not just talking through my hat, but have been considering all this for some many decades, I can only laud the sincerity of the young Doctor. But in this case I conclude that he has not gone far enough. Not by my experience, anyway. as respected as his accomplishment might deservedly be.
 
LJH_80 said:
Would you agree with the assessment that the two subjects start at different points?
Jesus didn’t start with the understood wisdom of the time and build a case up to what He taught. He taught the lessons, and in the last 2,000 years, many scholars have devoted their lives to doing the buildup.

That is, philosophy would start with “so we understand these three things about time… and that would mean the universe behaves in this way… which would imply a creator of it cannot be a creation of the universe… and this creator must be self created.”

Whereas religion says “The universe was created by a self-creating deity.” and moves jauntily along. Many scholars have since filled in the space, but the Bible itself doesn’t do that.
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I am not sure that there is an issue of agreement or disagreement. Jesus is the master, creator of thought. Whatever thought existed up to this time came as a result of that creation.

It is said that Augustine Christianized Plato and Aquinas Christianized Socrates or vice versa. Whatever the scheme all thought that is outside of Christianity came from the creator and is incorporated into the thought of the Church or Theology. I don’t know why Jesus created it this way but that is how it is going.

Paul says to look in the world in Romans 1 to know about God and there is no excuse not to know. Well that means like Augustine and Aquinas take what you can from what the world discovers and look at it from a Creation point of view. I have done that with GS, NLP and Neurosemantics. I am not the first. It does make sense.

Theology does not exist within the Bible alone as Catholic Christians we are not Bible alone theologians. Theology is based on Scripture/Tradition/Magesterium…and so it goes.
 
jochoa said:
Excellent points my friend! I especially liked the reference to this being a bit too thick to usefully navigate. Please consider the following simplification and development:

**The fundamental philosophy of life is the same as the fundamental theology of life and is most simply and elegantly stated by the Holy Bible as: **“You shall Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. Love your neighbor as yourself.” From this simple and wise declaration, as well as trying to master this commandment, there is much to be learned and gained. The following are some of the concepts of living which can be learned from the commandment.
-Since this is God’s request for us, He must be perfect at this.
-There must be a purpose of God wanting this from us.
-A hint of the blessings which are to come once in Heaven.
-The blessings which come from mastery while on earth.
-The components, as well as order, of being.
-It must be based on the first philosophy: “Love is greatest, where love is patient and kind.” Because patience generates freedom from disturbance given a world of persons which make mistakes from ignorance, freedom from disturbance is necessary to experience any level of happiness, and kindness generates happiness which is what we all want.
So from developing this commandment, we will get the fundamental of life, including God’s life aka theology.

Development with the basis of first philosophy, the commandment can be defined further as:
You should always be and spread the means to be perfectly patient and kind and motivated for God with all the heart, soul, mind, and strength equally towards others and the self.

Revelation of the components of being from the commandment:
-Heart is the center of the body, and the body feels.
-Soul is the center of the spirit, and the spirit is image, knowledge, and past-actions.
-Mind is the center of the thoughts, and the thoughts think.
-Strength is the center of the will, and the will acts.
-Although the body feeling and thoughts thinking are acts, they are not the fullness of acting/willing until all act in oneness.
Therefore the commandment can be developed further: You should always be and spread the means to be motivated for God with all your body, spirit, thoughts, and will equally towards others as the self.

Revelation of the order of being when coming into existence: First, body. Second, spirit. Third, thoughts. Fourth, will.
From human perspective without consideration of God, we come to exist as a body (single cell) first. Once existing this single cell has a certain appearance, therefore is the first image and first existence of our spirit. Next we have the ability to think because of the generation of the mind. Then from the ability to think and feel, the fullness of our will is revealed by proceeding from our mind and body.
Although the science of God’s existence is different from ours, the order of His existence is the same. My concept of God, the Father’s, existence is: He has a body of a single cell. This cell has the image of the Eucharist, which is an instance of His Spirit. This cell could think of the plan to bring free-willed creations to love as He loves. Then by the procession of the thoughts and body of God, the will caused creation. If you want to know how God is bodiless before this, consider John 1:2 DRB. Although it first states Word(Laws/Nothingness) was first, since it follows with Word with God, God must have already been there for the Word to be with Him. If you need a method to reason that God’s body existed first, refer back to the second question scheme of post #215: Was the first physical/material thing to exist living or nonliving?

Revelation of the blessings which come from mastery while living on earth:
When one is patient and kind and motivated…
…with the body, one’s heart will be filled with peace and happiness and energy.
…with the thoughts, one’s mind will be filled…
…with the will, one’s relationships will be filled…
…with the spirit, one will generate peace and happiness and energy in others.
Given the ignorant nature of humans, as well as the highly selfish living of many, when a person sets out to be perfectly patient and kind in the face of impatience, unkindness, and meanness, s/he will have to sacrifice natural desires/”talents/interests” for the desires of peace and happiness for all, which in turn generates the blessings of perfect happiness with unbreakable peace while on earth.

Revelation of the concept of blessings which are to come in Heaven, and God’s purpose for wanting us to do this:
In the fullness of Heaven (where the resurrected body of Jesus is), everybody lives in perfect alignment with this commandment. And when two or more people live in oneness with these commandments, the blessings become a limitless happiness with unbreakable peace.
Therefore, the purpose of God wanting us to live accordingly is so that He may experience a limitless happiness with an unbreakable peace.

I will follow up with some ideas that share some of the Revelations of God’s Perfection at this commandment.

And given that we are ignorant humans and must grow towards oneness with living perfectly accordingly to the commandment, I have come to interpret the following definition of the commandment:
Always want to learn, perfect, and spread the means to patience and kindness and motivation for God with all the body, spirit, thoughts, and will equally towards others and the self, so that every relationship and the self may experience unbreakable peace, limitless happiness, and unstoppable energy.

Thank you very much my friend for asking for further definition. You have helped make my day better, and I look forward to further discussion.

Thoughts?
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You raise a question. Do we create our Theology on the Bible alone?
 
CopticChristian said:
You raise a question. Do we create our Theology on the Bible alone?
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Thank you very much for your time, consideration, and very interesting question, my friend. Please consider the following concepts:
-All-encompassing/Catholic Theology is not created. Instead, all-encompassing theology is revealed by the Holy Spirit because the nature of God and laws of Love have somehow always existed., and do not change.
-Now given the Bible is Truth, and Doctrine is Truth, and both reveal developments in Catholic Theology, I enjoy finding perspectives which validate both in alignment. And in turn, I come to understand Catholic Theology using both.
-Given the following: The Holy Bible comes from the Holy Spirit. The Holy Bible is the Word of God. The Word of God is the Holy Spirit. Doctrine comes from the Holy Spirit. Therefore, Catholic Doctrine is the Word of God, as well as, Catholic Doctrine is the Holy Bible. Somewhere in those givens and conclusions, recognizes that the answer to the question is Yes and No. It depends on what the interpreter limits the Holy Bible as being.
-Matthew 22:40 - “On these two commandments dependeth the whole law and the prophets.” Given Universal Theology has not been revealed on the Bible alone, the answer to your question is No. Given the Word of God states the whole law and prophets are founded on these two commandments, then one can find Catholic Theology from these two commandments alone. Therefore the answer to your question could be Yes.

You presented excellent food for thought my friend! Thank you very much for making my evening more enjoyable! Please share any more thoughts and critiques you may have, for I deeply enjoy refining the concepts to be more encompassing.
 
Micorhizea said:
That was kind of abrupt, but what ii mean is that it is so much simpler than that, and the simplicity of it is obscured by all of what I see as mental mechanizations.
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Hello and thank you for sharing further thoughts. I am unsure what exactly you are telling me. Would you please consider some questions of mine?
-What is so much simpler?
-What is your understanding of the Fundamental Philosophy which connects philosophy with theology?
-In recent discussions, I have had a friend mention to me that my understandings seem to make the “emotional” realm too mathematical/formula based. Are you using “mental mechanizations” similarly? If not, what do you mean by mental mechanizations?

Thank you once again for your time and consideration.
 
jochoa said:
Hello and thank you for sharing further thoughts. I am unsure what exactly you are telling me. Would you please consider some questions of mine?
-What is so much simpler?
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Accomplishment tends toward simplicity. All the parsings of theology and philosophy are useful for academic sparring. The sources of those philosophies and ideas are the intimate inner journeys of men and women who were either graced with or worked to be receptive to insight. Their reportage became the jumping-off place for others who were lesser and more literal minds who took the symbols of another’s interpretations as literal truth, relative or absolute.

While a genuine interior realization is utterly simple, attempting to put such an ineffable experience into words, especially to attempt to signify its meaning, is a taxing exercise in exactitude. Few are up to it, but there are some spectacular successes. And yet they all point toward utter simplicity.
-What is your understanding of the Fundamental Philosophy which connects philosophy with theology?
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That is a most practical question. The answer is that they are both thought.
-In recent discussions, I have had a friend mention to me that my understandings seem to make the “emotional” realm too mathematical/formula based. Are you using “mental mechanizations” similarly? If not, what do you mean by mental mechanizations?
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Could be, but I really don’t know for sure what your friend specifically means. I don’t know you, either, save as some electrons dancing on a screen, which phenomenon is a profoundly significantly symbol. But it is one thing to absorb and manipulate book learned ideas, and a radically different one to delve within one’s self or their ideas of God and discover fundamentally life-changing perceptions on their own. That takes hard work and devotion. Spirituality is not by any means solely an intellectual exercise. Understanding comes from doing, not from book learning. Another way to say this might be that only doing is real learning.
Thank you once again for your time and consideration.
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Of course! that is why we are here. Like it or not, lol!
 
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