What radical step should be taken to restart the movement for christian unity

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Bodhi303 said:
Agreed Phil 19034 change must be organic and take time. Slow gradual process is the way the Holy Spirit always works. And if this process ever got off the ground it would absolutely be inspired by the Holy Spirit. And a 1500year delay in total unification would fully qualify as slow(I’d hope)

However, I would not categorize my motiviation as a generational fad. This is Christ’s prayer that I’d want to answer for him. For me its not something trendy its more a loving act of gratitude. I just sincerly believe just to get people to the table will take humility on everyone’s part. And whatever fruit that would’ve yeilded from this supposed “Council of London” (lets say) would be the Will of God. Because just getting people to the table would take an act of God.

Sadly based on the avalanche of critiques my post received getting people to the table will never happen. And that’s disappointing. I don’t care how many well thought out, eloquent, and (most likely) rehearsed rebuttals someone throws my way…its just a huge disappointment. And Im not disappointed for me. Im disappointed for Christ.
I had a little bit of hope when I saw reports of the Pope opening up discussion with the Orthodox Church and Pentecostals. But Que Sera…

Though we didn’t fully agree Phil19034 I appreciate the charity in your response. Thank you very much and God bless.
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Hello Bodhi303,
Please know I was not implying that your motives are based on generational fads. I too wish for unity. What I simply meant is that we cannot sacrifice Some of God’s Truth for generational fads; generational fads referring to the latest heterodox practice or belief.

There is plenty of room for theologically wiggle room, especially if we use new Rites for the returning groups, and even room for different cannons and disciplines; but we cannot compromise on Dogma. We cannot compromise by substituting Truth with false teachings.

God Bless and keep praying for unity.
 
po18guy said:
If everyone broke off from a unified Church (or broke off from someone else who did), how else can you expect unity?

We are not talking sports teams here. We are speaking of God’s revealed truth. It matters not one whit to the truth if someone does not believe it.
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Exactly.

What was required for unity in the family of the “Prodigal Son”?
The son returning to the father.

… and then, being greeted with all the love & joy that he could provide.
 
Bodhi303 said:
I agree with Mystophilus

There has to be a negotiation. And in any good negotiation everyone walks away feeling like they didn’t get fully what they wanted or demanded. Just some of it.

We’d have to be motivated not by politics and dogma, but by love of Christ.
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Do you know what dogma is? It is the divinely revealed truth.
You want to negotiate on that?

:nope:
 
Unity of any kind begins with persuasion over force, such as one of my favorite fables the north wind and the sun!

The story concerns a competition between the North wind and the Sun to decide which is the stronger of the two. The challenge was to make a passing traveler remove his cloak. However hard the North Wind blew, the traveler only wrapped his cloak tighter to keep warm, but when the Sun shone, the traveler was overcome with heat and had to take his cloak off.

so to promote unity we must all focus on our similarities, not differences. Just as we are the “United” states, we cannot and will not ever agree on everything, but if we look at our similarities and do our best to help and love our neighbor, the unity will come between all humankind, not just Christians.
 
BlueElf said:
Unity of any kind begins with persuasion over force, such as one of my favorite fables the north wind and the sun!

The story concerns a competition between the North wind and the Sun to decide which is the stronger of the two. The challenge was to make a passing traveler remove his cloak. However hard the North Wind blew, the traveler only wrapped his cloak tighter to keep warm, but when the Sun shone, the traveler was overcome with heat and had to take his cloak off.

so to promote unity we must all focus on our similarities, not differences. Just as we are the “United” states, we cannot and will not ever agree on everything, but if we look at our similarities and do our best to help and love our neighbor, the unity will come between all humankind, not just Christians.
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A world wide atheistic dictatorship could provide peace and unity. And it might come about through gentle persuasion. Would we want that?
Actually there was a religion at the time of the early Church that gently absorbed every religion in its path, rejecting nothing but incorporating all the “good” compatible beliefs into a soft, loving blend, open to all beliefs. Their slogan was what unites us is more important than what divides us, and those distinctive differences tended to melt away in the blend. This intoxicating Tolerance Tea was called Gnosticism.

There were Gnostic Jews, Gnostic Christians, Gnostic Pagans, Gnostic many other religions. The early Church - at least the Catholics, united with the pope and bishops - rejected this religion, and rejected other Christianities too that lacked the fullness of Truth, even though they had lots of similarities. Dogma was crucial to those Catholics, because Truth was crucial. Should we be different?
 
cmodrmac;12356802]the core beliefs of the mainline Protestants and the Rroman Catholic church really are aligned-it is the issue of human sexuality and the issue of authority that will for ever keep us from real Unity
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Wow; I risk posting here, because I don’t have a clue to what the above statement means??
There is nothing to suggest that any movement is in the offing-I could think of a few good things that may point the way-it will take someone to make a radical move-ANY THOUGHTS? some I have heard
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What has to be exposed and agreed upon first;
  1. Those essential things divinely revealed, which are not subject to change, there can be no compromise on revealed Truth.
  2. How that Truth is expressed and practiced from one communities faith, is subject to change.
    a. This welcomes protestant expressions of faith from the Sola fide, Sola Scriptura camps, which already has different expressions of faith communities in these. So long that is agreed upon that the sola fide, sola scriptura reveals an expression of faith that is not forced upon believers as binding on all believers.
    Code: 
                 b. Sola fide, Sola Scritura cannot replace the sacred Liturgy ordained by God.
  3. The Liturgy has small openings where a culture, language, dress, vestments, song is expressed in faith which is subject to change, yet the Rock upon Jesus revealed His Liturgy of the Word and Liturgy of the Eucharist is never subject to change.
4, The Canon of scripture is closed by Trent and is no longer a subject of discussion. Jesus told Peter and the apostles; “what you bind and loose on earth, I will bind and loose in heaven”.
  1. Protestant Communities can remain in their independence, so long as they reconcile themselves to;
    a. apostolic succession
    Code: 
                          b. a valid holy priesthood (which the Catholic Church has many expressions of faith from here, such as the Benedictines, Oblates of St. Joseph, Dominicans, Augustinian's, Jesuits, and yes we have convert married priest in this fold.)

                      c. valid sacraments

                      d. Divine Authority from Jesus Christ revealed in and from the apostles and their apostolic successors
  2. Learn what the last councils taught on ecumenism and reconciliation
  3. Begin first with self; Work out your faith with fear and trembling in the disciplines of each communities expression of faith, holding to the Rock upon which Jesus built His Church.
 
It is important to note here, that the Roman Catholic Church is not limited to one expression of faith disciplines. The Roman Catholic faith is expressed in different historical ages from many different cultures, nations, tongues and peoples who keep the simple Rock of faith Jesus builds upon Peter and His apostles.

**If we can find that space, that can place protestant teachings and views in the form of a new introduced expression of Christian faith, as a discipline teaching, and not as a doctrine that conflicts or contradicts, but flows with and supports itself from the Rock of Apostolic sacred Scripture and Apostolic Sacred Traditions , that is expressed from their Faith and Scripture without the Sola binding. I believe both traditions has moved to allow each expression of faith to be practiced in the form of discipline not doctrine.

That Catholic Church would not be doing anything new here. She would be in keeping with her Traditions, as she has with many other nations, peoples, tongues and Tribes, who continue today the freedom to express their One Holy Catholic Faith from their traditions and disciplines that do not infect or defect the apostolic divine revelations and teachings.**

Maybe it is from this space, which Protestants originally protested for and sought their freedom to express their faithful faith in Jesus. If it could of been communicated to the Catholic Church in the reformation period, to grant the protestants freedom and liberty of their faith expression, disciplined from a new laity and or priestly orders to express their new faith as disciplines and not pit them against Apostolic Succession , Traditions and the Magisterium, we may not have had all the protestants leave their roots.

**If it was not revealed from the reformation period to allow this space for protestants expression of faith. Why can’t we do it now!! **

Then the Lutherans and Calvinists, Baptists reconciled with their Mother Church the Catholic Church, they can evangelize their own denominated brethren such as the non-denominations back into their fold, when all are worshiping God from their disciplines and expression of faith, that can some how be celebrated within the Liturgy of the Mass in only those things that are subject to change.

I think it would be exciting to see a bible thumping, jumping bishop evangelizing and excited about Jesus, and then rest from his work in solemn celebration of Mass in the presence of Jesus body, blood, soul and divinity.

Heck, if we had evangelizing bible thumping, jumping faith believing, practicing catholic bishops like these, followed by a solemn Mass. Sunday football games would become a thing of the past for me.

Hail Mary full of Grace…
 
In my opinion, the distance between the Catholic Church and the Protestants comes down to three of the five solas.

The five solas:
  1. Sola sriptura (“by Scripture alone”)
  2. Sola fide (“by faith alone”)
  3. Sola gratia (“by grace alone”)
  4. Solus Christus or Solo Christo (“Christ alone” or “through Christ alone”)
  5. Soli Deo gloria (“glory to God alone”)
The Catholic Church teaches:
3. Sola gratia (“by grace alone”) and I feel the Catholic Church has no problem with; 5. Soli Deo gloria (“glory to God alone”).

I feel, from a Catholic view point the first radical step should be:

for the Protestants give up their belief in the following:​

  1. Sola scriptura (“by Scripture alone”)
  2. Sola fide (“by faith alone”)
  3. Solus Christus or Solo Christo (“Christ alone” or “through Christ alone”).
Also I feel, from a Protestant view point the first radical step should be:

for the Catholic Church to accept and teach the following:​

  1. Sola scriptura (“by Scripture alone”)
  2. Sola fide (“by faith alone”)
  3. Solus Christus or Solo Christo (“Christ alone” or “through Christ alone”).
A radical step towards the unity of Christianity would be achieved, with the willingness of either the Catholic Church or the Protestants to make a change in their beliefs, concerning the three solas.

God bless.
 
I believe that the prayer of Jesus in John 17 WILL be answered, and I believe that all Christians will eventually be ONE in this world.

I think what will make it happen is sin. As sin abounds and people become more evil, Christians will join together to defeat sin under the Lordship of Jesus Christ and His Church.

We’ve already seen it happening in the U.S. The heinous sin of abortion has brought about more unity between Catholics and Protestants, and amazingly, the Orthodox.

I grew up Protestant. I was fortunate to attend a Conference Baptist church in which the pastors were friendly with the Catholic priests in our city, probably because we have a police chaplain program that was started back in the 1970s by a Catholic priest who actively recruited not just Catholic priests, but Protestant pastors too. The pastors in my childhood church were very active as police chaplains, and this brought them into constant constant with priests, and I think that this helped them to see the love of Christ in Catholics and made them more accepting.

At any rate, even though my church was friendly with Catholics, many Protestant churches were not. When my husband and I moved to North Carolina in 1980, we attended a Christian and Missionary Alliance Church, and the pastor of THAT church refused for years to get involved with any pro-life work, even though he was strongly pro-life, because he refused to get involved with Catholics, who he believed were not Christians.

Most of the people in that church followed his lead and had nothing to do with Catholics, who they believed would “corrupt” them and their children.

My husband and I kept after him, and eventually, we persuaded him to attend a large pro-life rally at the capitol (Raleigh). When he announced that he would attend, many people in the church attended to, and it was the beginning of a much larger involvement of this church with pro-life activities in the city.

I’ve seen this over and over again over the last 30 years. Many pro-life efforts are led by Catholics, including the pregnancy life care centers. Protestants, mainly Evangelical Protestants, have jumped on board and in the process, have learned a lot about Catholicism, made friends with Catholics, and become more willing to explore Catholicism.

The horrible sin of abortion has forced us to work together to overcome this sin.

To a smaller extent, the Orthodox have also gotten more involved with Catholics and Protestants in their efforts against abortion.

I think we’ll see still more of this as sin becomes more commonplace in the U.S. and in the world. Already we see an alignment of Catholics and Evangelical Protestants against the various mandates of the Affordable Health Care Act that are sinful to Christians. We also see an alignment of effort to hold back laws supporting gay marriage (although sadly Christians have lost that battle in the U.S.–we waited too long to recognize what was coming).

When sin is at its peak, Christians will unite.
 
Cat said:
We’ve already seen it happening in the U.S. The heinous sin of abortion has brought about more unity between Catholics and Protestants, and amazingly, the Orthodox.
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I was going to say :confused: but then I thought, Heh there’s probably someone in the world saying “Our interdenominational efforts have gotten participation from … and, amazingly, even Roman Catholics.”
 
appreciate all the posts-

ovreall quite discouraging

referred to us a “Pharisees” there are many things that Episcopleans are but Pharisees are surely not one

“But never Mary. It’s an enigma. Frankly I think God has told the devil He will not allow him to blaspheme her, or else! So the Protestants need to start accepting her for a start”

we have always honored and “accepted” Mary period-just not with the same emphasis as Rc -SHE is the “Theotokos”
 
Christian Unity is achieved in the following manner.

RCIA.

The Roman Catholic Church is not the perpetrator of division. She is like the father in the parable of the prodigal son. The prodigal must return. Then our already existing unity may be made more perfect.

Christian unity already exists. It has never not existed. Schismatics being outside the Church is not a state of Christian disunity any more than Mohammedans or Shintoists being outside the Church is a state of Christian disunity.

Come home. We love you. We miss you. When you come home, we will slay the fattened calf. All we desire is the return of our separated brethren. But this cannot come by compromising the revealed truth of God’s living Word, in scripture, in tradition, and in teaching authority. Unity is already here. Come and partake of it.
 
PolycarpMeans said:
Christian Unity is achieved in the following manner.

RCIA.

The Roman Catholic Church is not the perpetrator of division. She is like the father in the parable of the prodigal son. The prodigal must return. Then our already existing unity may be made more perfect.

Christian unity already exists. It has never not existed. Schismatics being outside the Church is not a state of Christian disunity any more than Mohammedans or Shintoists being outside the Church is a state of Christian disunity.

Come home. We love you. We miss you. When you come home, we will slay the fattened calf. All we desire is the return of our separated brethren. But this cannot come by compromising the revealed truth of God’s living Word, in scripture, in tradition, and in teaching authority. Unity is already here. Come and partake of it.
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Thank you for the invitation. Your kindness and charity demonstrate the revealed truth of God’s love for us.

We are studying 1Peter in our pastor’s Bible Study class and this past week we were expanding on what it means to purify our souls; on obedience and brotherly love - and how if we love Christ, we are to respond with love for our brothers and sisters.

Keep calling. We are listening.
 
Stilldreamn said:
Thank you for the invitation. Your kindness and charity demonstrate the revealed truth of God’s love for us.

We are studying 1Peter in our pastor’s Bible Study class and this past week we were expanding on what it means to purify our souls; on **obedience **and **brotherly **love - and how if we love Christ, we are to respond with love for our brothers and sisters.

Keep calling. We are listening.
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So true!

I thank God a new generation of orthodox Catholics has grown up, ready and (sometimes) well prepared to defend the Magisterium, and defend the common foundation of Judeo-Christian truths, against attacks from all directions. That being said, I think we - at least I myself - sometimes forget the truths you mentioned in your post. It’s easy to lapse in your prayer life, lapse in virtue, easy to forget to love Christ and people.
We can’t surrender an inch on the Truth, but people have to see the love in us before they will hear our presentation of that truth.
 
Commentator, couldn’t agree more.

When I see various proposals of sorts, my spirit actually winces.

What is needed is a new evangelization of Catholic Christianity, after all the abuses of solid catechesis following Vatican II and the secular media world.

What is needed, and it is already happening, are highly educated Catholic lay men. I saw it this morning on EWTN, Catholic television.
 
More interactive activity within all Christianity, this is seriously lacking and I don’t say it to place fault. The progression through the V-II onset till today socially has been advanced very rapidly in technology, we in general, I believe have became less social which is contrary really to humans. However, I also think the technical communication has bought a great deal of helpful communication and interaction. So its more of synthesizing the two aspects.

Further I think EWTN and the above post is correct, people should do as EWTN suggests and give the Church another look with an open mind, imho, be it of Christ we owe it that.
I believe that the prayer of Jesus in John 17 WILL be answered, and I believe that all Christians will eventually be ONE in this world.
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I believe so also, and that its already happening.
 
Great posts, Gabriel!

Cat, appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut on Catholics and Evangelicals coming together.

I am hoping to provide inserts to parish bulletins each week that describe misconceptions about Catholicism and the answer, written by a former Evangelical. I shared the book with a convert to our adult faith group, and the lady was greatly helped. But this is a parish known for dissenting ideas, that is now finally led by a most orthodox and jolly pastor.

He moved the tabernacle out of this closed room back to the main altar where now the church is again God’s dwelling place, along with the sanctuary light.
  1. Big key for unity…is the Eucharist.
It is the Breaking of the Bread at the evening after the walk to Emmaus that the apostles could finally understand the Living Word of God. It is the Mass that is the key in understanding the mysteries of the Book of Revelation. The Mass IS heaven on earth, fulfilling the Lord’s promise He would always remain with is. It is Peter and his successors who hold the keys to heaven. The Jews all understood the significance of one person holding the key as sign of authority, in the 100 year period after the death and resurrection of Our Lord; not a declaration of faith. Priests who have been through alot within church travail share that it is the Eucharist who nurtured and kept them going.
  1. Nobody can just make Eucharist. Eucharist is communion; Eucharist is based on the apostolic succession who witnessed the Lord, not charismatic individuals living almost 2000 years after the event.
It has to be the consecrated clergy to bring us the Eucharist, who are Ministers of the Blood, who provide us the 7 sacraments – the 7 Eyes of the Lamb, of the Lord Who constantly watches over us.

The Catholic faith is beyond us…the Church is beyond us. We must take one step into the Lord, into His Church to be nurtured and guided by it to bring us fully to Him. Then we will see we do not dictate the conditions based on our own take, but that given to us by the Apostles.
 
What is Christian unity? What does it look like? Here’s a radical thought for all of us to meditate on more, myself at the top of the list:

Colossians 3:12 So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; 13bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you. 14Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity. 15Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful. 16Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God. 17Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father.

John 13:34“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35“By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

1 John 4: 7Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him. 10In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us. 13By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 14We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
15Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. 18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. 19We love, because He first loved us. 20If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.
 
Kliska,

You have to go back to see the structure of the Church to see how people actually lived out and worshipped the Lord in such unity.

Otherwise, if you look at Scripture without the Church, you are looking at it through your opinion shared by others.

Yes, we agree with your reference, but again, for all those who follow Sola Scriptura we have thousands of individual sects and ecclesial communities who refuse to worship the one Lord together.

The ancient liturgy has the same parts as today, the same spirit and tone…the Lord’s Covenant of the Blood, where we are actually made one with the Lord, – Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity…the LIturgy of the Word and the LIturgy of the Eucharist, this is what the Mass is, the Word Made Flesh, not the Word in isolation without the Body.
 
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