What really happens after I die?

[Randy_Carson]

In an opinion piece posted at Fox News, Chip Ingram, pastor of Venture Christian Church in Los Gatos, California, teaches a number of theological errors.

After promoting what sounds like universal salvation, Ingram writes:

The Apostle Paul says, Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. (2 Corinthians 5:6)

True. We are not with the Lord in heaven when we are still alive here on earth. But then he goes on to make the following classic blunder:

To be away from the body is [emphasis added] to be at home with the Lord. One minute after you die and your soul departs your body, you will be in the presence of God. There is no delay. There is no purgatory. There is no reincarnation. At the moment a Christian takes their last breath, they are immediately in the presence of Christ.

Sorry, Chip, but it does not follow that when you leave the body you will instantly go to heaven. That’s not what the scripture says or means. Paul wrote, “We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.” (1 Co. 5:8) “And” does not mean “is to be” - as any good translation of the Bible will reveal.

Yes, Paul would prefer to be away from the body AND at home with the Lord, but that does not mean that he could not have been away from his body and in purgatory or even in hell.

We’re not all automatically going to heaven for eternity when we die, Chip. There’s more to eternal salvation than that, and in your efforts to write a puff-piece for the mass audience of Fox News, you have preached erroneous doctrines that may actually lead to the loss of the very souls you are seeking to win.

 

[Picky_Picky]

In an opinion piece posted at Fox News, Chip Ingram, pastor of Venture Christian Church in Los Gatos, California, teaches a number of theological errors.

After promoting what sounds like universal salvation, Ingram writes:

True. We are not with the Lord in heaven when we are still alive here on earth. But then he goes on to make the following classic blunder:

Sorry, Chip, but it does not follow that when you leave the body you will instantly go to heaven. That’s not what the scripture says or means. Paul wrote, “We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.” (1 Co. 5:8) “And” does not mean “is to be” - as any good translation of the Bible will reveal.

Yes, Paul would prefer to be away from the body AND at home with the Lord, but that does not mean that he could not have been away from his body and in purgatory or even in hell.

We’re not all automatically going to heaven for eternity when we die, Chip. There’s more to eternal salvation than that, and in your efforts to write a puff-piece for the mass audience of Fox News, you have preached erroneous doctrines that may actually lead to the loss of the very souls you are seeking to win.

What then is the sequence of events after death, Randy?

 

[Rbaker]

To be fair, he didn’t say that everyone automatically goes to heaven, he just said that we would be in the presence of God. Also, I think it is safe to say that Paul didn’t go to hell, considering the fact that he is a saint.

But I get your point. The whole bit about no purgatory and such is obviously contradictory to what as Catholics believe, and I think we all already know that we aren’t automatically going to heaven.

 

[superwimp]

Hello Randy,
Since Chip obviously isn't Catholic I don't see why should expect him to conform to Catholic theology.

 

[GEddie]

Hello Randy,

 Since Chip obviously isn't Catholic I don't see why should expect him to conform to Catholic theology.

Although, to be fair, even Catholics when faced with the sheer hideousness of death, sometimes assume that one goes on to “a better place.”

ICXC NIKA

 

[Usagi]

There is nothing in the core Catholic doctrine of purgatory that says it must take a measurable amount of time nor that it must be a third distinct “place” besides Heaven and Hell, so this is not really an issue from our POV.

 

[boldlygo]

There is nothing in the core Catholic doctrine of purgatory that says it must take a measurable amount of time nor that it must be a third distinct “place” besides Heaven and Hell, so this is not really an issue from our POV.

……

 

[JonNC]

There is nothing in the core Catholic doctrine of purgatory that says it must take a measurable amount of time nor that it must be a third distinct “place” besides Heaven and Hell, so this is not really an issue from our POV.

I believe it is this understanding that, at least in part, made possible the remarkable common understandings between Lutherans and Catholics regarding this subject in The Hope of Eternal Life, starting at paragraph 164.

Jon

 

[jlhargus]

In an opinion piece posted at Fox News, Chip Ingram, pastor of Venture Christian Church in Los Gatos, California, teaches a number of theological errors.

After promoting what sounds like universal salvation, Ingram writes:

True. We are not with the Lord in heaven when we are still alive here on earth. But then he goes on to make the following classic blunder:

Sorry, Chip, but it does not follow that when you leave the body you will instantly go to heaven. That’s not what the scripture says or means. Paul wrote, “We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.” (1 Co. 5:8) “And” does not mean “is to be” - as any good translation of the Bible will reveal.

Yes, Paul would prefer to be away from the body AND at home with the Lord, but that does not mean that he could not have been away from his body and in purgatory or even in hell.

We’re not all automatically going to heaven for eternity when we die, Chip. There’s more to eternal salvation than that, and in your efforts to write a puff-piece for the mass audience of Fox News, you have preached erroneous doctrines that may actually lead to the loss of the very souls you are seeking to win.

[Heb9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, **but after this the judgment:]

[2Cor5:10 For **we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.]

 

[Randy_Carson]

Hello Randy,

 Since Chip obviously isn't Catholic I don't see why should expect him to conform to Catholic theology.

Of course.

But his exegesis of 1 Co. 5:8 is completely wrong, and even a Protestant should know this.

Yes, the particular judgment occurs immediately after death, but this does not mean that the soul immediately enters heaven for eternity. Some will go to hell while others must undergo purgation.

The article is puffery - a feel-good piece for a low-information audience.

 

[Wannano]

Yes, the particular judgment occurs immediately after death, but this does not mean that the soul immediately enters heaven for eternity. Some will go to hell while others must undergo purgation.

And none go directly to heaven?

 

[Randy_Carson]

Randy Carson;13763301:

Yes, the particular judgment occurs immediately after death, but this does not mean that the soul immediately enters heaven for eternity. Some will go to hell while others must undergo purgation.

And none go directly to heaven?

Some do. Probably the small minority.

 

[TonyBS]

Much written on this subject in the Bahai Faith.

Here is one extract that is good for meditation

“It is clear and evident that all men shall, after their physical death, estimate the worth of their deeds, and realize all that their hands have wrought. I swear by the Day Star that shineth above the horizon of Divine power! They that are the followers of the one true God shall, the moment they depart out of this life, experience such joy and gladness as would be impossible to describe, while they that live in error shall be seized with such fear and trembling, and shall be filled with such consternation, as nothing can exceed. Well is it with him that hath quaffed the choice and incorruptible wine of faith through the gracious favor and the manifold bounties of Him Who is the Lord of all Faiths….”

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-86.html

Regards Tony