What Recourse Do I Have?

[holyrood]

Maybe the only answer really is continued prayer. But tonight was bad enough I actually considered legal options–or at least finally telling more of the truth to my children.

I am ‘on the outs’ with my family. My father is an alcoholic and (I believe) a pervert. As per a childhood memory later confirmed by a friend of a friend in a certain business, I believe my mother has spent 40+ years telling people I’m a liar, rather than face the truth.

I divorced XH because of his lying, cheating, gas-lighting, and tens of thousands of dollars disappearing, unaccounted for. I divorced him, in the end as legal protection of my own money (he was helping himself to my bank account, and it was the only buffer we had) to make sure I could keep a roof over the kids’ head.

I have in the past years, months, and even this week, heard from people the stories my mother and XH are telling about me–blatantly untrue–that I ‘have a wild imagination,’ that I ‘have men in and out of the house,’ that I tried to take the kids away from their father. NONE of these things is even remotely true.

Tonight, one of my sons–who is on the autism spectrum and has ADHD–had to be taken out of Mass. (And he’s well into the years that shouldn’t ever have to happen.) He informed me, in the hall, that he can’t wait till his older brother figures out a way to get the house back to dad, that ‘all the kids’ would rather have dad there than me.

I know my kids think the things they do–including about me–because of stories they’re being told by their father, grandparents, and aunts and uncles. I have been nothing but gracious to their father–welcoming him into the home, letting the kids go over any and all times, holding my tongue about his goings-on with 23 year old girls, having him over for every holiday, etc. I have invited my parents and siblings to graduation parties until I got tired of them coming into my home, enjoying my hospitality, and not so much as acknowledging my presence in my own home. l have held my tongue about what their father was up to, and have only addressed the alcoholism (but never the suspected perversions) only when all but forced to by my older children being upset that I won’t go near my family.

And now I’m paying the price for them saying things about me that are just blatantly not true, not even remotely. I suspect any legal repercussions would be more damaging than the benefit I’d gain–if there even *are *any legal repercussions about people lying about me. When is it wise to tell my children some of the uglier truths about their relatives and their father?

I have tried relentlessly to take the high road, to believe that the truth will win out in the end, to hope that simply being nice would eventually impact these people–and yet even this week, I hear more lies being told to my friends about me–by XH. I’ve heard from people at church the things my mother says about me, by people who know these things aren’t true. But I sit in church every week wondering what all the little old ladies must think, who *don’t *know me, who believe these things.

And I realize that despite my best hopes, my children are at least half believing these things, too.

What is the right answer? How do I deal with this?

 

[tweedlealice]

Dear Holyrood,
Prayer,Prayer,Prayer. Legal=prove perversion??alcohol=Prove?? Then,husband can only
see kids under supervision. Get permission to move w new job?
I am so sorry for the memories you have in your soul. Remember to forgive all. “CREATE IN ME A NEW HEART OH, LORD.”
I HAVE A PLAN FOR YOU, IT IS A GOOD PLAN. IT IS NOT A PLAN FOR EVIL. IT HAS A FUTURE AND PURPOSE," READ EPHESIANS 3: 14-21
BY HIS STRIPES YOU ARE HEALED.
in Christs name
tweedlealice

You are the victor in Christ Jesus.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

You should be talking to a professional counselor about these issues. Being angry and wanting revenge will accomplish nothing.

 

[Beryllos]

You should be talking to a professional counselor about these issues. Being angry and wanting revenge will accomplish nothing.

Okay, but I don’t think the OP is angry or contemplating revenge. She is a victim of slander and is asking what is the most charitable way to defend her good reputation and protect her children.

Dear Holyrood, I am following this thread with much empathy, but don’t have any great advice at the moment… except to note that the Catechism allows one to disclose another’s faults and failings when there is “objectively valid reason.” Therefore in your case it may be morally acceptable to speak up, saying as much as is necessary in order to correct the lies spoken against you. For example, you could say “My ex-husband and his family are quite bitter, and they are saying things about me that are untrue.” With your children and with some friends, you could add “If you are troubled by something you hear about me, feel free to ask me about it,” or words to that effect.

 

[Beryllos]

… When is it wise to tell my children some of the uglier truths about their relatives and their father? …

That is a good question, and you should think it over well so that you are not guilty of detraction:
CCC 2477: Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:
–of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;
–of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them;
–of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.
So there are two questions (at least):

First, is there objectively valid reason? If the untruths spoken against you are harming your children, or if your continued silence would put them at risk of other harm (e.g., molestation), then you have valid reason to disclose as much as is necessary to heal the injury already inflicted on your children and to prevent further harm.

Second question: Do your children already know his faults and failings? They may have heard it already from other sources, or they may be (as children often are) able to sense that your ex-husband and his family are not quite all right. Children pick up non-verbal behavioral cues (facial expression, posture, tone of voice, gestures, touches) that may make them feel uneasy about a person even though they couldn’t tell you why. Anyway, either verbally or non-verbally, your children may already have a partial and possibly erroneous understaning of your XH’s faults and failings. If you tell them “some of the uglier truths,” with charity and restraint, of course, you may simply clarify what they have already begun to see. And this could be very good for them.

God bless you and your children, keep you safe, and guide you.

Let us pray also for your dreadful XH and his family, and for your parish and community.

 

[holyrood]

Okay, but I don’t think the OP is angry or contemplating revenge. She is a victim of slander and is asking what is the most charitable way to defend her good reputation and protect her children.

Thank you for seeing that. This has nothing to do with revenge.

 

[holyrood]

That is a good question, and you should think it over well so that you are not guilty of detraction:
CCC 2477: Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:
–of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;
–of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them;
–of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them.
So there are two questions (at least):

First, is there objectively valid reason? If the untruths spoken against you are harming your children, or if your continued silence would put them at risk of other harm (e.g., molestation), then you have valid reason to disclose as much as is necessary to heal the injury already inflicted on your children and to prevent further harm.

Second question: Do your children already know his faults and failings? They may have heard it already from other sources, or they may be (as children often are) able to sense that your ex-husband and his family are not quite all right. Children pick up non-verbal behavioral cues (facial expression, posture, tone of voice, gestures, touches) that may make them feel uneasy about a person even though they couldn’t tell you why. Anyway, either verbally or non-verbally, your children may already have a partial and possibly erroneous understaning of your XH’s faults and failings. If you tell them “some of the uglier truths,” with charity and restraint, of course, you may simply clarify what they have already begun to see. And this could be very good for them.

God bless you and your children, keep you safe, and guide you.

Let us pray also for your dreadful XH and his family, and for your parish and community.

Thank you for this.

I have talked to one of my older children about why I stay away from my family, but my own mother is telling people I imagine things and make things up. My son ended up telling me he’s sure I ‘*think *those things happened.’

I have considered telling my XH he needs to stop saying these things, but honestly, I think knowing it’s affecting me would only encourage him. He’s very nice to my face, btw, and will drop off gallons of milk, or do yard work around here–I think it almost makes it more insidious, because he then can tell people all the nice things he’s doing for me. Then they just shake their head even more at these stories, completely unaware they’re entirely made up. Because he’s such a nice guy.

 

[tawny]

Praying to the Holy Spirit to give you guidance, direction, strength, fortitude & wisdom in your time of need.

 

[nodito]

Thank you for this.

I have talked to one of my older children about why I stay away from my family, but my own mother is telling people I imagine things and make things up. My son ended up telling me he’s sure I ‘*think *those things happened.’

I have considered telling my XH he needs to stop saying these things, but honestly, I think knowing it’s affecting me would only encourage him. He’s very nice to my face, btw, and will drop off gallons of milk, or do yard work around here–I think it almost makes it more insidious, because he then can tell people all the nice things he’s doing for me. Then they just shake their head even more at these stories, completely unaware they’re entirely made up. Because he’s such a nice guy.

Holyrood,

Have you talked to your mom about this? What does she say when confronted with the lies she is spreading? Does she really believe you sleep around or does she simply have no conscience?

 

[pianistclare]

Please see your priest. The sooner the better.

Secondly, don’t for a second believe that your children don’t know what he’s really like. They are lashing out because it’s difficult for them.
My children had a very abusive dad, and even after he took his own life, the ultimate in selfish acts, they still for 2 full years couldn’t tolerate anyone saying anything at all, good or bad, about him.
Children want that fairy tale life, because they perceive that everyone ELSE has it. They probably don’t, and pretending that all is well, doesn’t help, although I totally get where you’re coming from. Someone has to solider onward.
The entire family needs therapy. See your health dept. for family counseling. It won’t be easy, and they won’t want to go, but it’s necessary.
Maybe if they will talk to the priest he can hear them out, allow them to cry, and begin to deal with the loss of their father.
They are lashing out at you because really…who else are they going to blame? He’s gone. Grandma is blaming you…you appear to be fair game in their eyes.
Remember they are kids, they are hurting, just like you, and they need a shoulder.
You all do.
I will keep you in my prayers.
My heart breaks for you. I totally understand, and I AM praying.
Peace.

 

[Indigo_Cardinal]

I’m going to echo the counselling, and also suggest that maybe a long, open talk with your kids might be in order.

I’d say to stop ‘being nice’–I don’t mean start saying, “Well, your father is a lying son-of-a (bleep),” but sit down with your kids and explain that you had a troubled (and reading between the lines of what you wrote, abusive) childhood, and that women who grew up in such situations will frequently select partners who treat them the same way. Explain to them exactly why you’re staying away from your family. Explain to them why you left their dad–not just to protect yourself, but to keep your kids from seeing an example of an abusive marriage, that you didn’t want them repeating this in their lives later on… Stop protecting these people who have shown repeatedly that they don’t care about you. I realize (and completely sympathize) that you’re trying not to drag your kids into what you believe is your fight, but they need to recognize there are two sides to every story. Get a counselor to help you with this.

And personally, I’d confront your family and ex-husband with what you’re being told. You can do it ever-so-politely with your ex: “Hey, John, I’ve been hearing that you’ve been saying XYZ about me. For the sake of the children, I’d like to clear this up between us, could you explain to me what went on?” Most people, when confronted, will quickly start to shut up. A lot of people bank on the ‘victim’ not coming up to them and asking for an accounting of their behavior. I’d also ask your friends who are advising you of what’s being said if they’d be willing to testify in court if it comes to that…you may have to pull the threat of taking them to court for slander if it comes to that. (Start noting who tells you what, and when they told it to you.)

Good luck.

 

[pianistclare]

I’m going to echo the counselling, and also suggest that maybe a long, open talk with your kids might be in order.

I’d say to stop ‘being nice’–I don’t mean start saying, “Well, your father is a lying son-of-a (bleep),” but sit down with your kids and explain that you had a troubled (and reading between the lines of what you wrote, abusive) childhood, and that women who grew up in such situations will frequently select partners who treat them the same way. Explain to them exactly why you’re staying away from your family. Explain to them why you left their dad–not just to protect yourself, but to keep your kids from seeing an example of an abusive marriage, that you didn’t want them repeating this in their lives later on… Stop protecting these people who have shown repeatedly that they don’t care about you. I realize (and completely sympathize) that you’re trying not to drag your kids into what you believe is your fight, but they need to recognize there are two sides to every story. Get a counselor to help you with this.

And personally, I’d confront your family and ex-husband with what you’re being told. You can do it ever-so-politely with your ex: “Hey, John, I’ve been hearing that you’ve been saying XYZ about me. For the sake of the children, I’d like to clear this up between us, could you explain to me what went on?” Most people, when confronted, will quickly start to shut up. A lot of people bank on the ‘victim’ not coming up to them and asking for an accounting of their behavior. I’d also ask your friends who are advising you of what’s being said if they’d be willing to testify in court if it comes to that…you may have to pull the threat of taking them to court for slander if it comes to that. (Start noting who tells you what, and when they told it to you.)

Good luck.

Good advice.

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

I think you should consider confronting your mother about why she is spreading these lies about you. Ditto for your XH. Also, talk to your kids about what people have said is NOT true. I don’t think there is anything wrong with telling your kids that what is being said is not true. You will be defending yourself and that is a good thing, IMO.

If your mother won’t stop spreading lies about you, then I would suggest that you stop speaking to her. As for your XH, that will be hard, since he is the father of your children. I would say speak to him as little as possible, and don’t allow him to do the yard work and other favors he does for you.

 

[holyrood]

I think you should consider confronting your mother about why she is spreading these lies about you. Ditto for your XH. Also, talk to your kids about what people have said is NOT true. I don’t think there is anything wrong with telling your kids that what is being said is not true. You will be defending yourself and that is a good thing, IMO.

If your mother won’t stop spreading lies about you, then I would suggest that you stop speaking to her. As for your XH, that will be hard, since he is the father of your children. I would say speak to him as little as possible, and don’t allow him to do the yard work and other favors he does for you.

Thank you for all the answers.

The last time I spoke to my mother was 6 years ago. I talked to her at the time about a certain, unwarranted belief she has about me. I saw the veil lift for just a moment, the utter confusion in her eyes as she saw the truth of what I was saying…and then it was as if the veil snapped down, and she simply dismissed it, made an excuse to continue believing of me what she has for years, and went right past that fact she couldn’t deny or argue with.

I truly believe there’s an element of mental instability from years of an abusive marriage, such that no amount of confrontation is going to do much good. Such that anything I saw will only be used as more ammunition against me.