What Religion Can Err on Matters of Faiths and Morals?

[AgnosTheist]

Faiths & Morals are 100% subjective. And so I dont think any religion could err on these matters. So let me challenge each one of you. Present a matter of faith & moral from any religion which you think is an error and I’ll try to defend it. My only condition is that your item has to come from what the religion considers as its highest authority. In Islam its the Koran. In RCC its the Magesterium speaking in ex-cathedra. In Protestant circles its the of bible verses.

 

[Steadfast]

You begin with the assertion that matters of “faith and morality” are “100% subjective” and you expect people who absolutely disagree to play along?

Nah…I’m not biting…

Besides, morality is pretty universal: there is little practical difference between, say, Buddhist and Christian ethics.

As for confession, or faith, it is a matter not of subjectivity but of ones acceptance of the vouchsafing authority. Now, you can say this is subjective if you like but for those who hear the Voice of the Master it certainly isn’t, if by that we mean relative or subject to verification.

 

[AgnosTheist]

You begin with the assertion that matters of “faith and morality” are “100% subjective” and you expect people who absolutely disagree to play along?

Nah…I’m not biting…

its the opposite. i dont expect those who agree to play along. but the only way to prove your disagreement is to play along.

Besides, morality is pretty universal: there is little practical difference between, say, Buddhist and Christian ethics.

how about playing those two against islam?

 

[Steadfast]

how about playing those two against islam?

Muslim ethics, as I understand them are remarkably consistant with Judeo-Christian ethics…

In fact one of the most striking criticisms Muslims will make about the West is that we have left this ethical base in favor of secularism, naturalism and relativism.

On all the typical issues Muslims tend to agree with Orthodox Jews and Conservative Christians.

 

[ralphinal]

I would say agnostic theism can err greatly.

I see your point. However, can it be said that some things are objectively good or bad? Also, what about a cult? Would you consider them a religion in the classical sense?

 

[Della]

In Protestant circles its the of bible verses.

Sorry to “cherrypick”, but this isn’t the case. Protestantism does not consist solely of “Bible Christians”. It also has denominations that have governing bodies that interpret the Bible in much the same way as the Catholic Magisterium does. So right there you are starting out with a false idea/assumption.

Also not all the world’s religions are historically based, claiming direct revelation from God.

As you probably know, not all faiths claim to be infallible on matters of faith and morals, either.

As I see it, this does not say a thing about any one faith’s correctness on matters of faith and morals. It only tells me that not everyone will accept that only one can make that claim and be right about it.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Muslim ethics, as I understand them are remarkably consistant with Judeo-Christian ethics…

there are similarities and there are marked differences. take for example islam’s treatment of women.

 

[AgnosTheist]

It also has denominations that have governing bodies that interpret the Bible in much the same way as the Catholic Magisterium does. So right there you are starting out with a false idea/assumption.

i did not make such assumptions. i know very well the protestants consist of various denominations whose beliefs sometimes contradict with one another.

when I defend a religion, i will take on their point of view. i will be a muslim. a catholic. a baptist. a methodist. a mormon. you name it.

As you probably know, not all faiths claim to be infallible on matters of faith and morals, either.

thats the challenge of it. even though some religions dont claim infallibility, i will reason out how its core beliefs are unerring on matters of faiths & morals.

 

[AgnosTheist]

I see your point. However, can it be said that some things are objectively good or bad?

Yes, I believe some things are objectively good or bad. like incest with a young child, its objectively bad.

Also, what about a cult? Would you consider them a religion in the classical sense?

No, certainly not in the classical sense. For me the classical understanding of ‘religion’ is that what you can find in Webster and that its supposed to be old & global in scope.

Otherwise, a cult is but a new religion. And religion is but an old cult.

 

[ralphinal]

Yes, I believe some things are objectively good or bad. like incest with a young child, its objectively bad.

No, certainly not in the classical sense. For me the classical understanding of ‘religion’ is that what you can find in Webster and that its supposed to be old & global in scope.

Otherwise, a cult is but a new religion. And religion is but an old cult.

well, shoot. I was going to point to cults that teach incest as a recommended behavior.

If you look at the objectively bad things and find a religion that teaches it as good, there is a problem.

 

[Della]

i did not make such assumptions. i know very well the protestants consist of various denominations whose beliefs sometimes contradict with one another.

But you did. Reread your own post.

when I defend a religion, i will take on their point of view. i will be a muslim. a catholic. a baptist. a methodist. a mormon. you name it.

No offense intended, but I really doubt you are fully informed enough about all these religions to do that.

thats the challenge of it. even though some religions dont claim infallibility, i will reason out how its core beliefs are unerring on matters of faiths & morals.

And we’re to accept your judgment? Once again no offense, but you have GOT to be kidding!

 

[AgnosTheist]

No offense intended, but I really doubt you are fully informed enough about all these religions to do that.

no i’m not. but i’m a good researcher!!!

And we’re to accept your judgment?

I dont expect you to.

 

[AgnosTheist]

well, shoot. I was going to point to cults that teach incest as a recommended behavior.

If you look at the objectively bad things and find a religion that teaches it as good, there is a problem.

spare me the cultist nut cases. i will only defend religions that withstood the test of time. withstood the gates of hell.

 

[Steadfast]

there are similarities and there are marked differences. take for example islam’s treatment of women.

It has been argued by Muslim scholars that this has more to do with custom than with Muslim moral teaching per se.