What religion is correct if the Catholic religion isn't? Also, my doubts.

[truthnlight]

for the OP:

ask yourself where else will you go? who else has the Real Presence? and if you are not convinced then do whatever you need to do to convince yourself. read read read! pray pray pray!
ask ask ask! we all go thru spiritual dry spots and times of doubt. Speak to a trusted priest. go to a new place and find a new parish if you have to.
but don’t give up.

St. John chapter 6 verses:
51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world."
52
The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?”
53
Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.
54
Whoever eats 19 my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.
55
For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
56
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.
57
Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.
58
This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.”
59
These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
60
20 Then many of his disciples who were listening said, “This saying is hard; who can accept it?”
61
Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, “Does this shock you?
62
What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? 21
63
It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh 22 is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
64
But there are some of you who do not believe.” Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him.
65
And he said, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.”
66
As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.
67
Jesus then said to the Twelve, “Do you also want to leave?”
68
Simon Peter answered him, “Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
69
We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God.”

† Ravyn

Now, to sum this up, the Roman Catholic Institution teaches that you must believe that the bread, or host, consecrated in the mass actually becomes Jesus Christ and it is to be worshipped as God Almighty. This is why, back in 1554, a priest carrying the eucharist could stand before a family of Christians in Scotland, tied to posts with dried brush up to their waists. He’d hold that piece of bread before them and ask if what he held in his hand was actually the body, blood and deity of Jesus Christ. When they said, “No, it is only a symbol,” the priest’s assistant placed his flaming torch into the brush and set those Bible-believers on fire. As the victims screamed in agony, the priest held up his crucifix and said, “All this is for the greater glory of God.”
It holds firm, just as strong today, as it did in the time of the Middle Ages, that anyone who ridicules it, or says that it only represents Christ, is damned. The Vatican II Council re-affirmed this. Pope John XXIII said, “I do accept entirely all that has been decided and declared at the Council of Trent.”

 

[truthnlight]

and the point is…? Since the Catholic Church was the original Church it is irrelevant to quote scripture that clearly states it is something arising later in the game…kinda like the rise of Evangelical/Fundamentalist (Dispensationalists/Millennialists) Protestants in the last 150 years? You just don’t get it–Catholics do not believe in Scripture Alone (Sola Scriptura), we believe in God’s Word Alone–and God’s Word is Scripture, Tradition and Magisterium. So quote all the Scripture you want—it is apples and oranges. You can’t score a baseball game with the rules of football. Tradition- such as prayers that have been used for thousands of years- and official teachings of the Catholic Church (Magisterium) are just as valid as Scripture. And it just does not matter what you quote to deny it, it is only your opinion. (If I believed you were right I would not be a Catholic.) So it is a mute point.
And I pray in all sincerity that the OP comes to realize the beauty and truth to be found in his own Church.
God Bless
† Ravyn

Jer 007:018 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
007:019 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?

 

[truthnlight]

“I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.” -Isaiah 42:8
“Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them…” -Exodus 20:5

 

[truthnlight]

and the point is…? Since the Catholic Church was the original Church it is irrelevant to quote scripture that clearly states it is something arising later in the game…kinda like the rise of Evangelical/Fundamentalist (Dispensationalists/Millennialists) Protestants in the last 150 years? You just don’t get it–Catholics do not believe in Scripture Alone (Sola Scriptura), we believe in God’s Word Alone–and God’s Word is Scripture, Tradition and Magisterium. So quote all the Scripture you want—it is apples and oranges. You can’t score a baseball game with the rules of football. Tradition- such as prayers that have been used for thousands of years- and official teachings of the Catholic Church (Magisterium) are just as valid as Scripture. And it just does not matter what you quote to deny it, it is only your opinion. (If I believed you were right I would not be a Catholic.) So it is a mute point.
And I pray in all sincerity that the OP comes to realize the beauty and truth to be found in his own Church.
God Bless
† Ravyn

Mat 4:4It Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

 

[Gareth]

This thread has disintegrated into religious spam.
Catholics, congratulations you convinced me some time ago that Protestants could not be right.

Protestants, congratulations you convinced me that Catholics aren’t right ethier. Your arguments for sola scriptura and sola fide are weak in the extreme and utter failures in practice. Just as weak as catholic arguments for Papal infallibility are in light of world history.

Between the two of you you may have had a workable religion once, but as it is no chance. The truth is there’s nothing in this world that’s infallible. (and I’m not talking about God)

Good luck drifting if you’re even bothering to read this cack anymore.

Gareth

 

[cpayne]

Hi, Gareth. In case anyone else has said the following, excuse me: I sort of skipped from the third page or so over to here.

You may want to look in threads that are going on right now on the Resurrection (“What documented evidence is available for the “empty tomb”?”) and the existence of God (it has too long a title to type in, but it’s in the Apologetics section).

Paul spoke of the “joy and peace in believing.” And Jesus said “Seek and you will find.” Any inner turmoil you may be experiencing will eventually be resolved if you are sincerely seeking God. There IS joy and peace (and intellectual satisfaction, as well) in the life of faith. Best regards to you.

Same post as above. I just re-directed slightly. So long, everyone.

 

[truthnlight]

OMGOSH… it’s the sinners prayer… the hocus pocus, say it and be saved magic spell…

Really! And to think, Jesus never gave us that prayer!!! No thanks, I will stick with Jesus’s instruction on prayer:

Our Father, Who art in Heaven, hallowed be
Thy Name. Thy Kingdom come. Thy Will be done,
on earth, as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our
daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we
forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us
not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Amen.

Or how about something else from the Bible:

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is
the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners,
now, and at the hour of our death. Amen.

BibleBeliever… how do you explain this:
2 Thessalonians 2
14 Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle.

Doesn’t that mean that we should not depend on the Bible Alone?

Please understand that we are not saved because we pray a prayer; but because we believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ. It is certainly appropriate to ask the Lord in prayer to forgive and save us; but it is our faith which prompted us to pray the prayer. You could just as easily believe in your heart upon the Lord to be saved, and not pray at all. Salvation is of the heart, as we read in Romans 10:10, “For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness…”

 

[fellowChristian]

My doubts are:

1. Is the Catholic belief in the literal flesh and blood of Jesus in the communion wafer real, or is it made up by someone? Where is the proof of this? And what is the point of consuming Christ’s body in the form of a wafer?
2. Is the Catholic Communion of believers really the true Body of Christ? Where is the evidence to distinguish Catholic believers from other people to prove this claim?
3. Is the Catholic Clergy particularly holy, or is it a sort of secret society of unusual people who don’t fit into the mainstream of ordinary life. Sometimes it seems like a good old boys club. How can I have faith that these men have special gifts from God to turn wine into blood when they seem so flawed?

These are my 3 most main doubts.

Then there is the general doubt about the very existance of God, and if there is no God, why is there matter, how did matter get made, meaning how did all the atoms get started? Then again, how did God get started, since how could there not be a God? How could there, how could there not?

Now, if the Catholic religion is just one of many, and not the most true, then is there a truer religion? Or is religion just a cultural expression of Man’s need to explain the unexplainable?

1. You need to read the book of John chapter 6 verse:25 to 70

2)The “proof” is in time. From 1517 all the way back to Christ, No one had even heard of a “Protestant”. The protesters broke from the Catholic Church. Before that Martin Luther,John Calvin,King HenryVIII were all Catholic.

1. Jesus is both human and Divine. Jesus is one with His Church. His Church is both human and Divine because it is one with Jesus. The human part are the people who make up the body. The Divine part is the Holy Spirit who was sent to guide it like Jesus promised. The human part of His Church sin.

God changes the bread into His Body and the wine into His Blood. That is the Divine part of the Church. God chooses to use the people to carry out His work. That is the human part of His Church.
We are all called to be Holy.

The word religion is from the Latin word meaning to “bind” we bind ourselves to God.

I prefer to use the word Host instead of “wafer”. The word Host is from the Latin word meaning Victim.
You need to pray for answers to your questions.I will pray for you too.

 

[fellowChristian]

TNL-
In the book of James chapter 2 verse 19 it states that even the demons believe.

      Does that mean the demons are saved?
    
      And if you read all of James you'll see that believing is not enough. For your faith without works is dead.
 
       Matthew 25:31-46 we are being told that we have to work or else.

 

[Sixtus]

Truthnlight posted:

Roman Catholic Institution teaches that you must believe that the bread, or host, consecrated in the mass actually becomes Jesus Christ and it is to be worshipped as God Almighty.

It holds firm, just as strong today, as it did in the time of the Middle Ages, that anyone who…says that it only represents Christ, is damned.

The Vatican II Council re-affirmed this. Pope John XXIII said, “I do accept entirely all that has been decided and declared at the Council of Trent.”

Actually it has been believed by the Catholic ‘Institution’ as you put it since the time of Christ. St Paul certainly believed in it. Less than 100-years after Christ, ‘The Church’ decreed that none but ordained ministers should touch any vessel which contained the Sacred Host or Precious Blood!

Shame that you think not only the modern Institution but also the orginal Institution of the Blessed Apostles and St Paul himself all got it wrong!

However, the myth that the Pope has declared that anyone who does not believe is damned, is about as realistic and honest as families up to their waste in brushwood

 

[Sixtus]

fellowChristian posted:

demons believe

Does that mean the demons are saved?

And if you read all of James you’ll see that believing is not enough. For your faith without works is dead.

Matthew 25:31-46 we are being told that we have to work or else.

 

[truthnlight]

Rejecting the shed blood of Christ as your only hope of salvation, you will crucify to yourself the Son of God afresh;and if you willfully perish, you will have to tread upond the blood of God’s only begotten Son on your way to an eternal Hell (heb.6:6 10:29)God has done everything that can be done to save you. He died for you,but He will not force you to be saved. Turn ye turn ye…for why will ye die?(Ezek.33;11

You may be morally upright and a respectable person, even a church member or among the socially ellite, but if you persist in seeking to escape from the truth, there will come a day when the Hell you feared and tried to forget will become a terrifing reality to you forever.

Rev.021:007 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
021:008 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Prov. 014:012 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Isa.66:3,4 Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

Isa.56:5,6 : They hatch cockatrice’ eggs, and weave the spider’s web: he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper. Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works:
:bible1:

 

[Sixtus]

Truthnlight posted:

Rejecting the shed blood of Christ as your only hope of salvation, you will crucify to yourself the Son of God afresh;and if you willfully perish,

Who are you to say that I reject Christ’ sacrifice? I think that is a very condescending thing to say. You do not know me so how can you say such abominable things?

021:008 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
:

Who are ‘whoremongers?’

Prov. 014:012 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Isa.66:3,4 when I spake, they did not hear:

What is this strange word ‘spake’ do you mean ‘rake?’ When you go home do you say ‘I spaked to someone today?’ If not, then why do you try to make the word of God so inaccessible?

Isa.56:5,6 : They hatch cockatrice’ eggs,

What is a cockatriece egg?

Why do you quote so much from the Old Testament? Do you not know anytning from the New Testament!

 

[Sixtus]

If the CC is wrong then we are in the poop and up to our necks in haggases

 

[truthnlight]

I do no work for salvation. God in the flesh did all that work. The Shed Blood covers my sins. I now do work. From my heart.Now that I am saved, because I live for The Lord Jesus Christ I love Him with all my heart, all my soul, and all my thoughts. And I love you all as myself. ALL EVERYONE OF YOU . even the ones who hate me. I love telling the world what Jesus has done for me. No greater love then laying down your life. What more can I say. All I want to do is serve Him. The more I read and learn His word the more I love Him. I spend all of time learning and studying. I was saved late in life. I lost all of my desires for worldly things. Nothing in this world matters to me more than serving him and beign with him in heaven. These things I could not do at my own willpower. It was only after I truely accepted him into my heart that these desires were given to me of spiritual things not of wordly things. I cannot explain it I just know that it happened and that its real. Before I was saved I lived a life of drugs, alcohal, pornography, material things, and pride of life. I tried seeking happiness in all of these things and didn’t find it in any of them. Only emptiness. After i was saved my heart was filled. It is the most amazing thing that has ever happened to me in my life. All those things that I was into before i was saved i tried stopping on my own, but i couldn’t. It was only through Gods mercy, his power, and the blood of Christ. Now I owe him my life. I love you all in the Lord and i am always praying for you. In the name of my Lord and savior Jesus Christ. Amen.

 

[BelFarfalla]

I do no work for salvation. God in the flesh did all that work. The Shed Blood covers my sins. I now do work. …

So now you could go out an commit mass murder but you’re still saved? Wow what a deal!!

 

[Matisso]

Many people here on this forum had doubts about the Catholic faith. One of the things that I would suggest are the reading the writings of the Early Church Fathers. These are men who recieved the teachings of Christ from many of Christ’s disciples, including the Apostles. You may want to go to the main page of Catholic.com and see some of the articles posted about the faith.

The more you take an objective look at the Church, the more you can understand and discern if the Catholic faith is the true faith of Christ or not.

I hope this helps - God Bless!

Hello, if I may make a suggestion, why not look into the writings that the early fathers had to look at before they made their writings? The Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit and may be able to help with the mind that is searching for the truth. Just a thought. Thank you, Matisso.

 

[truthnlight]

Truthnlight posted:

Who are you to say that I reject Christ’ sacrifice? I think that is a very condescending thing to say. You do not know me so how can you say such abominable things?

Who are ‘whoremongers?’

What is this strange word ‘spake’ do you mean ‘rake?’ When you go home do you say ‘I spaked to someone today?’ If not, then why do you try to make the word of God so inaccessible?

What is a cockatriece egg?

Why do you quote so much from the Old Testament? Do you not know anytning from the New Testament!

I did not say anything to you. I dont know you. All that I said was Gods word not my word. sorry if it offends you. I love you in the Lord and For me obedience is the key. when I am I get power in prayer.

 

[Church_Militant]

I did not say anything to you. I dont know you. All that I said was Gods word not my word. sorry if it offends you. I love you in the Lord and For me obedience is the key.

when I am I get power in prayer.You sum it all up and actually refute your own beliefs with this statement.

Notice here what the Word of God really says as to how we all will be judged.

Matthew 25:31-46

31: “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
32: Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats,
33: and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left.
34: Then the King will say to those at his right hand, Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35: for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36: I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.' 37: Then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink?
38: And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee?
39: And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?’
40: And the King will answer them, Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.'** 41: Then he will say to those at his left hand, Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels;
42: for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
43: I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’
44: Then they also will answer, Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?' **45: Then he will answer them, Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.’
46: And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” You say you do nothing for your salvation? I say that you hold an unscriptural belief about it.

Certainly you say your life is changed, (And glory be to God for that!) but to assert that your actions (works) have no effect on your salvation one way or the other is not supported by the Word of God.

I’ve been Baptist, and Assembly of God, and Non-Denominational, and having checked their beliefs against the Word of God as well as the teachings of the Catholic Church, I am now Catholic and there is about a snowball’s chance in hell of that ever changing again. Read my testimony here.

 

[truthnlight]

So now you could go out an commit mass murder but you’re still saved? Wow what a deal!!

I frequently receive e-mails from people who are upset at the idea that a person can be saved simply by trusting Jesus Christ as one’s personal Saviour. In particular, they are upset at the idea that someone can profess faith in Christ and still continue to live in sin, in effect…A LICENSE TO SIN!
One man who e-mailed me was very sarcastic and thanked me for opening his eyes. He said that he was extremely happy now that he knew he could live in wild sin and still be saved. He said that my teachings on salvation had given him a license to sin.
I would like to just share a few thoughts with you on this matter and clear up any misunderstandings. I think the problem that quite a few people have is a lack of understanding about Biblical “repentance.” The word “repentance” in the Bible means “a turn around.” Making a U-turn is a good example of repentance. The Bible clearly teaches that repentance is necessary for salvation. It is impossible for anyone to be saved without repentance. But what exactly is repentance in the Bible? Repentance is when we make a U-turn in our mind concerning Christ and our sins. The unsaved person does not want to recognize the sinfulness of their sins, so they make excuses to condone evil.

I was watching the news one day and heard something disturbing to me as a Christian. A woman who makes money as a porn model claimed to be a Christian. She said that Adam and Eve were naked in the garden of Eden and she didn’t see anything wrong with being naked. She was seeking to justifying her evil deeds. We’ll Adam and Eve were the only two people in the world back then also. Do you see how mankind seeks to rationalize his sins into good. Jesus foretold the day when tyrants will murder Christians, thinking they are doing God a service. It is a dangerous thing to attempt to decide right from wrong apart from God’s Word.

My point is that the unsaved person does not regard God or His Word. When a person is convicted by God’s Holy Spirit to come to Christ for salvation, a decision MUST be made. Some people reject Christ as Saviour and continue their downward spiral into hell-fire and damnation. But a FEW people, and I mean only a few, decide to come to Christ. It is at the very moment that they decided to turn to Jesus Christ that repentance took place. They “turned” towards the Saviour, instead of wandering away from Him like the masses of society do. They turned “away” from their unbelief and turned “towards” the Loving Saviour