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PJM
Guest
Does Obedience [and to who; or what] have a role in your faith practice?
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Disobedience in the beginning by Adam and Eve is what ruined it for us all , the original sin.
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Matt_707
Guest
Being a seminarian, obedience has a huge role in my faith. A lot of times it is what brings me to the chapel of the rough days at seminary. It is what pushes me to grow so that I can one day, God willing, be a holy priest. It is what is the nature of my calling to the priesthood - a response of obedience to the will of God. Obedience is very important.
God bless you,
God bless you,
L
Lost_Wanderer
Guest
I actually find it a test both on my part and on the part of the one I am obeying. If you are my superior, it is a test of my trust in you. On the superior’s side, it is a test of their ability to know better than the ones they ask obedience of.
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Publisher
Guest
When one becomes a Friend…one places themselves under the care of the Meeting…obedience to the Light is paramount…placing oneself “under the care of the Meeting” has definite responsibilites that go with it…obedience to the disipline is one of them
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ajcstr
Guest
As Scott Hahn points out, the first time St Paul uses the word “faith” in Romans, he calls it the “obedience of faith”. I would say obedience to Christ.
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PJM
Guest
THANKS Matt; ou just made my daily fray for list
Thank you and God Bless,
Pat
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GaryTaylor
Guest
I don’t believe obedience and faith cane be seperated.
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PJM
Guest
Hi Jon,
Interestering. Could you provide more details of what this means?
God Bless,
Pat
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Marie5890
Guest
May be a mater of semantics, but I don’t so much focus on “obedience” as I do “faithfulness”
I think it could be because there is a negative connotation on the word “obey” or “obedience” these days
But I find a more positive vibe from the idea of “being faithful”
I hope that makes sense.
I think it could be because there is a negative connotation on the word “obey” or “obedience” these days
But I find a more positive vibe from the idea of “being faithful”
I hope that makes sense.
J
Jehoshua
Guest
To paraphrase a certain St Ignatius of Loyola.
*“I shall believe that the black I see before me is white if the hierarchical Church so defines it” *
The divine truth of the Church is absolute and does not change with mere popular opinion. Thus as a faithful catholic I must trust in the Sacred Scripture, the Sacred Tradition and the Sacred Magisterium in full obedience in the knowledge of the Lords promises that ‘I will be with you always’, that "I will not leave you orphans’ and of course this
“You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church and not even the gates of Hell shall prevail against it. To you I shall give the keys of the kingdom of heaven, whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, whatsoever you loose on earth, shall be loosed in heaven”
*“I shall believe that the black I see before me is white if the hierarchical Church so defines it” *
The divine truth of the Church is absolute and does not change with mere popular opinion. Thus as a faithful catholic I must trust in the Sacred Scripture, the Sacred Tradition and the Sacred Magisterium in full obedience in the knowledge of the Lords promises that ‘I will be with you always’, that "I will not leave you orphans’ and of course this
“You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church and not even the gates of Hell shall prevail against it. To you I shall give the keys of the kingdom of heaven, whatsoever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, whatsoever you loose on earth, shall be loosed in heaven”
Hi Pat,
I’ll try.
The Augsburg Confession, ISTM, was not ordered haphazardly. It starts with article 1 - God, and continues with Art. 2 - Original Sin, followed by Art. 3 - the Son of God, Art. 4 - Justification, Art. 5 - the ministry, and then Art. 6 - New Obedience. So, Lutherans have a recognition that original sin made necessary that the Son of God come to bring salvation, that justification comes to us because of Grace through faith, that the Office of the Minstry brings this good news to us through word and sacrament. Our obedience to Him (sanctification) then follows, not out of fear, but out of joyful willingness, strengthened by the Holy Spirit.
Once we understand that justification by grace through faith comes first, which is necessarily followed by sanctification, the Gospel doesn’t seem to relay the idea of salvation without good works, as we see in James. We receive grace responsibly by responding through love, by doing the good works He has prepared us to do, strengthened by the Holy Spirit through word and sacrament, not because our good works themselves add to our justification, but because of our joyful thanksgiving for what God has done through His Son.
The Epitome of the Formula of Concord says:
*6. Accordingly, we also believe, teach, and confess that when it is said: The regenerate do good works from a free spirit, this is not to be understood as though it is at the option of the regenerate man to do or to forbear doing good when he wishes, and that he can nevertheless retain faith if he intentionally perseveres in sins.
12] 7. Yet this is not to be understood otherwise than as the Lord Christ and His apostles themselves declare, namely, regarding the liberated spirit, **that it does not do this from fear of punishment, like a servant, but from love of righteousness, like children, **Rom. 8:15. *
Jon
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PJM
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Thanks Jon; sems much like our Catholic beliefs… But another question if I may?
You mention “sacraments” several times: However a number of the Sacraments require DIRECT Apolostolic Succession; which Luther had but Forfeited in his schism and founding a seperate religion. Baptism and Marriage are somewhat universal in aceptance by Catholics and Chritians alike fo different reasons. The Other Five Sacraments; can in our view; only be valid and licit within the CC. What’s your take?
God Bless, pat
Thanks for a GREAt post!
As you might guess, Pat, we don’t have the same view on AS, and do not consider it necessary for a valid priesthood or sacrament. Lutherans consider Baptism, the Eucharist, and Confession/Holy Absolution as sacraments, though that’s not to say the other four are not important.
I’ll be happy to go into more detail if you wish.
Jon
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PJM
Guest
Another great response! Thanks… But it raises another question:
How does one reconcile this in view of these passages?
2 Tim.3 Verses 16 & 17:“All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.”
**John 10:16 **And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.
**Eph. 2:19-20 **“So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [singular] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [singular] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. “
**Eph. 4: 4 -8“**There is one body [Only One Church] and one Spirit, [Only One set of beliefs] just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, [Only One God] ONLY one faith, [Only One set of doctrine and dogma] one baptism, By water in the Trinity] one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. "
Matt. 16: 19 [note in singular tense]:“I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
I’ve not been able to reconcile these and your position; so mybe Jon, you can point out what it is that I’m missing?
God Bless,
Pat
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PJM
Guest
Hi Jon,
THANKS!
I am profoundly Catholic and have invested a great deal of time and effort learning not just what we believe; but also why we can beleive it. So when I am Blessed to encounter someone such as yourself; I see it as a great opportunity to learn about other faith beliefs.
I’m quite filmiliar with the Bible and use it extensively in both my post and in sharing my faith. Something that has puzzeled me for a long time is the [to me and my way of thinking]; the very obvious and huge amount of references to Only One Church and One Faith being founded by Jesus; a few of which I shared in my previous post.
If God only founded One Church; One Faith on On New Covenant; all positions that seem plainly evident in the Bible; on what basis; or what grounds are there competing Christian Faiths? I have struggled with this lack of understanding on my part for many years. Any light you can shed on the topic will be most appreciated.
God Bless you Jon,
Pat
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