What "Sacramentals" are allowable for Protestants?

[2ndGen]

What items does your Pastor “allow” you to use in worship (oil, altars, water, books, candles, pictures, images, etc…)?

 

[Publisher]

In a Friend’s Meeting, there are none of these…in “un-programmed” Meetings…there isn’t even a pastor.

 

[2ndGen]

In a Friend’s Meeting, there are none of these…in “un-programmed” Meetings…there isn’t even a pastor.

Jesus and The Apostles used them.

Plus God loved it when sacramentals were used to worship him with. The first sacramentals appear in Genesis with Cain & Abel.

 

[Publisher]

Jesus and The Apostles used them.

Plus God loved it when sacramentals were used to worship him with. The first sacramentals appear in Genesis with Cain & Abel.

I guess then you could say that each and every person at Meeting is a “sacramental”.

 

[2ndGen]

I guess then you could say that each and every person at Meeting is a “sacramental”.

You don’t use bibles, right?

 

[Publisher]

You don’t use bibles, right?

Some of us might read the Bible during worship, but the Bible doesn’t hold a special place in our Meeting Houses as they might in other places of worship.

I have attended an Episcopalian church in the past with some friends, they had a “gold” or brass covered edition of the gospels which the deacon carried elevated to the center of the meeting hall and read from during the gospel reading. I have attended a few Protestant churches where a large Bible had prominece at the front of the meeting house, but there are no…pictures, alters, books or candles in a Friend’s Meeting for worship. Our places of worship usually consist of plain benches or chairs arranged in a “U” shape. Most of us sit in the parrallel portions of the “U” facing one another on each side of the Meeting room. The Clerk and those who have the “care of the Meeting” that particular First Day sit in the area where the bottom part of the “U” would be.

There is the Clerk’s Table off to one side with a guest registry and pen on it…but that’s about it.

 

[2ndGen]

Some of us might read the Bible during worship, but the Bible doesn’t hold a special place in our Meeting Houses as they might in other places of worship.

I have attended an Episcopalian church in the past with some friends, they had a “gold” or brass covered edition of the gospels which the deacon carried elevated to the center of the meeting hall and read from during the gospel reading. I have attended a few Protestant churches where a large Bible had prominece at the front of the meeting house, but there are no…pictures, alters, books or candles in a Friend’s Meeting for worship. Our places of worship usually consist of plain benches or chairs arranged in a “U” shape. Most of us sit in the parrallel portions of the “U” facing one another on each side of the Meeting room. The Clerk and those who have the “care of the Meeting” that particular First Day sit in the area where the bottom part of the “U” would be.

There is the Clerk’s Table off to one side with a guest registry and pen on it…but that’s about it.

Well, there you have it. The use of a book for/during worship is considered a sacramental.

Your churches, those too are sacramentals.

 

[Publisher]

Well, there you have it. The use of a book for/during worship is considered a sacramental.

Your churches, those too are sacramentals.

Are the pews or chairs also considered “sacramentals”? What about the Meeting House?

 

[2ndGen]

Are the pews or chairs also considered “sacramentals”? What about the Meeting House?

If the pews are used for only worship, yes.

Anything used for worship that is not used for anything else (e.g. secular uses) is considered a sacramental.

If you go to a specific place set aside solely for worship, that is a sacramental.

 

[Publisher]

If the pews are used for only worship, yes.

Anything used for worship that is not used for anything else (e.g. secular uses) is considered a sacramental.

If you go to a specific place set aside solely for worship, that is a sacramental.

Then I guess my first answer is a bit incomplete…the world and all that that exists would be a “sacramental” for Friends. Our homes, our jobs, our cars, are all places that Friends seek to dedicate to the worship of the Eternal. Friends typcially don’t distinguish places of worship as “sacred”…our meeting houses are not soley for Meetings for Worship, but in times of need to shelter the homeless or feed the hungry which we see as a form of worship as well.

Each meal is a sacrament…each cup of water given to someone who is thirsty is a sacrament…and has I would daresay all the “holiness” that many Catholics reserve for the Mass…“that of God” is served…the face of Christ is seen in each hungry, needy or friendly face…we typically do not “separate” the mundane from the holy…life is holy and each of us is called to “incarnate” God in our lives.

 

[2ndGen]

Then I guess my first answer is a bit incomplete…the world and all that that exists would be a “sacramental” for Friends. Our homes, our jobs, our cars, are all places that Friends seek to dedicate to the worship of the Eternal. Friends typcially don’t distinguish places of worship as “sacred”…our meeting houses are not soley for Meetings for Worship, but in times of need to shelter the homeless or feed the hungry which we see as a form of worship as well.

Each meal is a sacrament…each cup of water given to someone who is thirsty is a sacrament…and has I would daresay all the “holiness” that many Catholics reserve for the Mass…“that of God” is served…the face of Christ is seen in each hungry, needy or friendly face…we typically do not “separate” the mundane from the holy…life is holy and each of us is called to “incarnate” God in our lives.

So then according to Christianity’s definition,the only sacramental you have is a bible?

 

[Publisher]

So then according to Christianity’s definition,the only sacramental you have is a bible?

Well, not even then as sometimes the Bible is used for a stool, or writing table…not solely for worship…so by your strict definition, no…not even the Bible…

But if you feel that Friends do in fact utilize “sacramentals” then you might want to include not only the Bible but the Koran, Vedas, Tao Te Ching, Testament of Devotion or any other “good book” that can speak to the “condition” of humanity in our search for insight into the Eternal.

 

[bengal_fan]

Jesus and The Apostles used them.

i"ll pretty much guarantee Jesus did not use images. he was jewish and that is forbidden.

that being said, this is a poor question seeing as there is no “norm” within protestantism. i would be free to use any of the mentioned items in worship (so long as they helped me to focus on Christ). other denominations would not permit it.

 

[BfloPolska]

Then I guess my first answer is a bit incomplete…the world and all that that exists would be a “sacramental” for Friends. Our homes, our jobs, our cars, are all places that Friends seek to dedicate to the worship of the Eternal. Friends typcially don’t distinguish places of worship as “sacred”…our meeting houses are not soley for Meetings for Worship, but in times of need to shelter the homeless or feed the hungry which we see as a form of worship as well.

This idea of all the world being a “sacramental” is much akin to that of the Sikhs as well. Sikhism tends to be a worldly faith, but not materialistic; all creation is sacred, and even our cars and jobs and things are sacred if we glorify God in their functions. The one thing in the religion analogous to the Sacramentals is the Holy Book (Granth-Sahib) and the “Kakkars” (so called because in the Punjabi language of the Sikh gurus, each item starts with the letter K) some of which include the long hair (think Samson) and the steel bangle (union to God) and a small ceremonial knife to remind us to stand up for righteousnes and for those who can’t defend themselves. and the temple is a place not only to worsip, but will provide food and shelter for those in need, regardless of race and belief. Even the food srved is sacred, for it is served in God’s name.

Blessed be,
Polska

 

[Publisher]

Publisher;3234677:

Then I guess my first answer is a bit incomplete…the world and all that that exists would be a “sacramental” for Friends. Our homes, our jobs, our cars, are all places that Friends seek to dedicate to the worship of the Eternal. Friends typcially don’t distinguish places of worship as “sacred”…our meeting houses are not soley for Meetings for Worship, but in times of need to shelter the homeless or feed the hungry which we see as a form of worship as well.

This idea of all the world being a “sacramental” is much akin to that of the Sikhs as well. Sikhism tends to be a worldly faith, but not materialistic; all creation is sacred, and even our cars and jobs and things are sacred if we glorify God in their functions. The one thing in the religion analogous to the Sacramentals is the Holy Book (Granth-Sahib) and the “Kakkars” (so called because in the Punjabi language of the Sikh gurus, each item starts with the letter K) some of which include the long hair (think Samson) and the steel bangle (union to God) and a small ceremonial knife to remind us to stand up for righteousnes and for those who can’t defend themselves. and the temple is a place not only to worsip, but will provide food and shelter for those in need, regardless of race and belief. Even the food srved is sacred, for it is served in God’s name.

Blessed be,
Polska

Our view of the sacred is very similar.

 

[2ndGen]

Well, not even then as sometimes the Bible is used for a stool, or writing table…not solely for worship…so by your strict definition, no…not even the Bible…

But if you feel that Friends do in fact utilize “sacramentals” then you might want to include not only the Bible but the Koran, Vedas, Tao Te Ching, Testament of Devotion or any other “good book” that can speak to the “condition” of humanity in our search for insight into the Eternal.

That sounds about right…anything used in worship (regardless of religion) is considered a sacramental.

I asked this question to test those who do use things in worship (such as holy handkerchiefs, holy annointing oil, miracle water, etc…). We’ve been criticized and called idolaterers for using such impliments when they can all be traced to their usage by Jesus and by The Apostles.

But it seems that none of those Protestants that feel that we are idolaterers for using annointing oil like God told Moses to use, candles like God told Aaron to use, altars, tabernacles, incense, etc…are not online here today.

But I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut!

 

[2ndGen]

i"ll pretty much guarantee Jesus did not use images. he was jewish and that is forbidden.

God did when He told Moses to have statues of angels in His House (The Temple) also when He told Moses to build an ark with two statues of angels on top of it and also when He told Moses to build idols of snakes to use in healing people.

There are certain criteria (for example, idols of things in the sea are allowed like fish, but not of things in the sea that is “under” the earth (that’s a different body of water than the oceans which are “on top” of the earth).

that being said, this is a poor question seeing as there is no “norm” within protestantism.

 

[bengal_fan]

God did when He told Moses to have statues of angels in His House (The Temple) also when He told Moses to build an ark with two statues of angels on top of it and also when He told Moses to build idols of snakes to use in healing people.

none of those are used as corporate worship items. especially in Jesus’ day, so i stand by my statement that Jesus did not use images in worship.

There’s a pattern here with you. It seems so far today all my questions are deficient. I didn’t correct you the first time out of politeness, but I have to this time.

well aren’t you polite (LOL). i would say the pattern is with you and i was correcting you. but, it’s all in the point of view.

First of all, there “are” Protestants who are taught to “not” use sacramentals. This is a fact. And it is also a fact that the overwhelming majority of Protestants today don’t use sacramentals (items in worship). At least, they don’t believe that they do. So my question is not poor, but valid as is.

And while there is no uniform manner of worship among Protestants, there are key factors that make them what they are (which is pretty much the avoidance of any of the number of practices that universal Christians do).

i still stand by the fact that when you generalize all protestants, your questions will remain “defficient” as it shows a bit of a lack of understanding of protestants as a whole and it shows a definite “agenda” with your questions. they aren’t questions, they are statements and (i don’t think i’m going to far with this) attacks.

so you keep “correcting” me, but until i see that you are sincere in your questions and not just pushing an agenda, i’ll continue to comment as i see fit.

What denomination are you?

presbyterian, it says it in my profile.

 

[SyCarl]

With respect to images the Catechism of the Catholic Church confirms that under the Old Testament that images of God could not be made. It indicates that with the incarnation God introduced a new economy of images.

1159 The sacred image, the liturgical icon, principally represents Christ. It cannot represent the invisible and incomprehensible God, but the incarnation of the Son of God has ushered in a new “economy” of images:

Previously God, who has neither a body nor a face, absolutely could not be represented by an image. But now that he has made himself visible in the flesh and has lived with men, I can make an image of what I have seen of God . . . and contemplate the glory of the Lord, his face unveiled.27

However I see absolutlely no indication in the New Testament of this. With respect to Jesus I am extremely leary of any image being used. We have no idea what Jesus actually looked like while on earth and certainly nothing that shows what He looks like in Heaven. I feel using images of Jesus can fix a conception of what Jesus did look like in our mind. Such a conception would be wrong since we do not know what He looked like. No image from His life on earth is preserved and I think there is a reason for that.

 

[East_Anglican]

From The 39 Articles.

XXV. Of the Sacraments.
Sacraments ordained of Christ be not only badges or tokens of Christian men’s profession, but rather they be certain sure witnesses, and effectual signs of grace, and God’s good will towards us, by the which he doth work invisibly in us, and doth not only quicken, but also strengthen and confirm our Faith in him.

There are two Sacraments ordained of Christ our Lord in the Gospel, that is to say, Baptism, and the Supper of the Lord.

Those five commonly called Sacraments, that is to say, Confirmation, Penance, Orders, Matrimony, and Extreme Unction, are not to be counted for Sacraments of the Gospel, being such as have grown partly of the corrupt following of the Apostles, partly are states of life allowed in the Scriptures, but yet have not like nature of Sacraments with Baptism, and the Lord’s Supper, for that they have not any visible sign or ceremony ordained of God.

The Sacraments were not ordained of Christ to be gazed upon, or to be carried about, but that we should duly use them. And in such only as worthily receive the same, they have a wholesome effect or operation: but they that receive them unworthily, purchase to themselves damnation, as Saint Paul saith.