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ShellKell

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One of the things Jesus dealt with from others, especially from the Pharisees was that they never understood the spiritual meaning behind his teachings. The Pharisees always seemed to refer back to the “Laws”. I believe that is what we are seeing here. Those disciples were not looking at the Spiritual meaning of what Christ was teaching. That is why Christ said in **Joh 6:63 **It is the Spirit that makes alive, the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit and are life. This verse was Jesus trying to clerfy what he was talking about, but they just didn’t get it. Verse 64 tell us the Jesus knew who wouldn’t believe, that is why he let them walk. **Joh 6:64 **But there are some of you who do not believe. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who is the one betraying Him.
Verse 65 seems to point that they did not have the Faith that comes from God , **Joh 6:65 **And He said, Because of this I said to you that no one can come to Me unless it was given to him from My Father.
Verse 66 says that they went back to the life they lived before **Joh 6:66 **From this time many of His disciples went back into the things behind, and walked no more with Him.
We must look at the whole encounter, not just a few hand picked verses.
 
One of the things Jesus dealt with from others, especially from the Pharisees was that they never understood the spiritual meaning behind his teachings. The Pharisees always seemed to refer back to the “Laws”. I believe that is what we are seeing here. Those disciples were not looking at the Spiritual meaning of what Christ was teaching. That is why Christ said in **Joh 6:63 **It is the Spirit that makes alive, the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit and are life. This verse was Jesus trying to clerfy what he was talking about, but they just didn’t get it. Verse 64 tell us the Jesus knew who wouldn’t believe, that is why he let them walk. **Joh 6:64 **But there are some of you who do not believe. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who is the one betraying Him.
Verse 65 seems to point that they did not have the Faith that comes from God , **Joh 6:65 **And He said, Because of this I said to you that no one can come to Me unless it was given to him from My Father.
Verse 66 says that they went back to the life they lived before **Joh 6:66 **From this time many of His disciples went back into the things behind, and walked no more with Him.
We must look at the whole encounter, not just a few hand picked verses.
This is true. And consider also, the parable of the sower. Not all seeds were productive depending on the soil and other surroundings they fell on.

Let me ask you - do you think the apostles understood what Jesus meant when He said “eat my flesh…drink my blood” in John 6?
 
from the Haydock Bible Commentary

Ver. 62. If you cannot believe that I can give you my flesh to eat, now that I am living amongst you, how will you believe, that, after my ascension, I can give you to eat my glorified and immortal flesh, seated on the right hand of the majesty of God? (Bible de Vence)

Ver. 63. If then you shall see, &c. Christ, by mentioning his ascension, by this instance of his power and divinity, would confirm the truth of what he had before asserted; at the same time, correct their gross apprehension of eating his flesh and drinking his blood, in a vulgar and carnal manner, by letting them know he should take his whole body living with him to heaven; and consequently not suffer it to be, as they supposed, divided, mangled, and consumed upon earth. (Challoner) — The sense of these words, according to the common exposition, is this: you murmur at my words, as hard and harsh, and you refuse now to believe them: when I shall ascend into heaven, from whence I came into the world, and when my ascension, and the doctrine that I have taught you, shall be confirmed by a multitude of miracles, then shall you and many others believe. (Witham)

Ver. 64. The flesh profiteth nothing. Dead flesh, separated from the spirit, in the gross manner they supposed they were to eat his flesh, would profit nothing. Neither doth man’s flesh, that is to say, man’s natural and carnal apprehension, (which refuses to be subject to the spirit, and words of Christ) profit any thing. But it would be the height of blasphemy, to say the living flesh of Christ (which we receive in the blessed sacrament, with his spirit, that is, with his soul and divinity) profiteth nothing. For if Christ’s flesh had profited us nothing, he would never have taken flesh for us, nor died in the flesh for us. — Are spirit and life. By proposing to you a heavenly sacrament, in which you shall receive, in a wonderful manner, spirit, grace and life. These words sufficiently correct the gross and carnal imagination of these Capharnaites, that he meant to give them his body and blood to eat in a visible and bloody manner, as flesh, says St. Augustine, is sold in the market, and in the shambles;[3] but they do not imply a figurative or metaphorical presence only. The manner of Christ’s presence is spiritual and under the outward appearances of bread and wine; but yet he is there truly and really present, by a change of the substance of bread and wine into the substance of his body and blood, which truly and really become our spiritual food, and are truly and really received in the holy sacrament. — The flesh[4] of itself profiteth nothing, not even the flesh of our Saviour Christ, were it not united to the divine person of Christ. But we must take care how we understand these words spoken by our Saviour: for it is certain, says St. Augustine, that the word made flesh, is the cause of all our happiness. (Witham) — When I promise you life if you eat my flesh, I do not wish you to understand this of that gross and carnal manner, of cutting my members in pieces: such ideas are far from my mind: the flesh profiteth nothing. In the Scriptures, the word flesh is often put for the carnal manner of understanding any thing. If you wish to enter into the spirit of my words, raise your hearts to a more elevated and spiritual way of understanding them. (Calmet) — The reader may consult Des Mahis, p. 165, a convert from Protestantism, and who has proved the Catholic doctrine on the Eucharist in the most satisfactory manner, from the written word. Where he shows that Jesus Christ, speaking of his own body, never says the flesh, but my flesh: the former mode of expression is used to signify, as we have observed above, a carnal manner of understanding any thing
 
One of the things Jesus dealt with from others, especially from the Pharisees was that they never understood the spiritual meaning behind his teachings.
If you are in some way refuting the Eucharist, consider the fact that God is not spirit alone but trinity and the reality of the incarnation. (Yes, Jesus lives both in flesh and spirit, and he is king of kings, just like it has been promised). Did Jesus not say, I will be with you always? What then? Only in spirit? Of course not! But in the breaking of the bread he makes himself known (See end of Luke).
 
One of the things Jesus dealt with from others, especially from the Pharisees was that they never understood the spiritual meaning behind his teachings. The Pharisees always seemed to refer back to the “Laws”. I believe that is what we are seeing here. Those disciples were not looking at the Spiritual meaning of what Christ was teaching. That is why Christ said in **Joh 6:63 **It is the Spirit that makes alive, the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit and are life. This verse was Jesus trying to clerfy what he was talking about, but they just didn’t get it. Verse 64 tell us the Jesus knew who wouldn’t believe, that is why he let them walk. **Joh 6:64 **But there are some of you who do not believe. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who is the one betraying Him.
Verse 65 seems to point that they did not have the Faith that comes from God , **Joh 6:65 **And He said, Because of this I said to you that no one can come to Me unless it was given to him from My Father.
Verse 66 says that they went back to the life they lived before **Joh 6:66 **From this time many of His disciples went back into the things behind, and walked no more with Him.
We must look at the whole encounter, not just a few hand picked verses.
You might find this thread interesting and informative:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=223770
 
M0nkey;4794259]If you are in some way refuting the Eucharist, consider the fact that God is not spirit alone but trinity and the reality of the incarnation.
I have considered and understand that.
(Yes, Jesus lives both in flesh and spirit, and he is king of kings, just like it has been promised). Did Jesus not say, I will be with you always? What then? Only in spirit? Of course not! But in the breaking of the bread he makes himself known (See end of Luke).
I understand what you are saying but we don’t see him in the flesh, even by your own admission the bread doesn’t visually change but rather is a mystical happening. Jesus makes himself known to us in allot more ways than the breaking of bread.
 
One of the things Jesus dealt with from others, especially from the Pharisees was that they never understood the spiritual meaning behind his teachings. The Pharisees always seemed to refer back to the “Laws”. I believe that is what we are seeing here. Those disciples were not looking at the Spiritual meaning of what Christ was teaching. That is why Christ said in **Joh 6:63 **It is the Spirit that makes alive, the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit and are life. This verse was Jesus trying to clerfy what he was talking about, but they just didn’t get it. Verse 64 tell us the Jesus knew who wouldn’t believe, that is why he let them walk. **Joh 6:64 **But there are some of you who do not believe. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who is the one betraying Him.
Verse 65 seems to point that they did not have the Faith that comes from God , **Joh 6:65 **And He said, Because of this I said to you that no one can come to Me unless it was given to him from My Father.
Verse 66 says that they went back to the life they lived before **Joh 6:66 **From this time many of His disciples went back into the things behind, and walked no more with Him.
We must look at the whole encounter, not just a few hand picked verses.
Agreed, and John 6:63 is one of the verses that we must not “hand pick” to argue against the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. But sadly, that is exactly what many people do.

Grasping at Straws: John 6:63

“The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken are spirit and they are life.”(John 6:63)

These words were spoken by Jesus shortly after delivering his teaching on the Eucharist, and some people claim that they indicate that Jesus was speaking figuratively when he commanded us to eat his body and drink his blood. However, this would be a misunderstanding of what Jesus meant when he said,“the flesh counts for nothing.”

First, notice that whenever Jesus referred to his own body and blood, he said"my flesh"or"the flesh of the Son of Man". Here are the examples:

“This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” (John 6:51)

"Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.” (John 6:53-56)

At this point, the narrative explains that the disciples were on the verge of revolt over this teaching. Jesus tells them that they cannot understand this teaching with their natural minds. Here is the verse in context: “On hearing it, many of his disciples said, ‘This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?’ Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, ‘Does this offend you? What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.’” (John 6:60-63)

In John 6:63, Jesus uses the phrase “the flesh” instead of “my flesh” or “the flesh of the Son of Man” because he is not talking about his own body; he is referring to man’s natural, unenlightened rational intellect.

Jesus tells the grumbling Jews (who can’t understand how he would give them his flesh to eat) that they cannot grasp it with their natural minds because it is a mystery beyond the ability of “the flesh” to understand. This is the same manner of speaking used by Paul in 1 Corinthians 2 & 3 when he is distinguishing between fleshly or carnal Christians and those who are discern the things of God with their spirits.

Second, it might be worth noting the obvious fact that Jesus cannot be saying that HIS own flesh “counts for nothing”; otherwise, his death upon the cross would be meaningless. Instead, we know that his own body, his flesh, was broken and pierced for our sake; no Christian would deny that. Therefore, since HIS flesh does count for something, he must have been referring to “flesh” other than his own in v. 63.

Thus, the one verse that many Protestants cling to as an argument against the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist does not mean what they falsely claim it means. Ironically, their “proof text” points out precisely why they cannot understand the Eucharist: they are using their flesh instead of their spirits to discern the things of God. Unfortunately, their flesh “counts for nothing”.
 
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