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Irish_Catholic_1
Guest
I don’t feel what you are describing. I feel that me and chrysostim83 are having a cordial conversation. Maybe you are just taking it wrong.
Err… …okay. But I still didn’t feel like we were arguing.
C
chrysostim83
Guest
We can keep going if you want.
I’m not too interested whether as a matter of fact gay Catholics can change. Change from gay to straight does occur; for example, some women who identify as lesbian one day, will identify as straight the next (Lisa Diamond studies this phenomenon). There was even a case I heard about of a man who turned straight following a series of strokes. However, deliberately changing one’s orientation through therapy is a totally different matter, and it is natural to be sceptical about the idea.
From what I’ve heard about sexual orientation in males, it seems like it would be a genuine miracle if a man changed from gay to straight. We have NARTH claiming a rather low success rate, ex-gays who claim still to have SSA even after years of therapy and marriage, and the APA’s report on effort to change sexual orientation which claimed not to be able to find evidence for success. All of this taken together allows me, with a clear conscience, to reject as unproven and probably false the idea that homosexuals can deliberately change their orientation through therapy.
But on the whole, as I said above, whether change is possible is not very interesting. The question which is of great interest is as follows (I’ll phrase it hypothetically on the off chance that Hume’s Day has come and the APA is wrong): Suppose there are gay Catholics who will never be able to change their orientation. Isn’t it true that such a person could expect never to marry, never to become a priest, or a monk or a nun, and always only to live a very solitary life out on the fringes of the Church? Is this a good thing, or a bad thing? How could you get such a Catholic to accept his or her “spiritual leprosy” with grace and humor?
I’m not too interested whether as a matter of fact gay Catholics can change. Change from gay to straight does occur; for example, some women who identify as lesbian one day, will identify as straight the next (Lisa Diamond studies this phenomenon). There was even a case I heard about of a man who turned straight following a series of strokes. However, deliberately changing one’s orientation through therapy is a totally different matter, and it is natural to be sceptical about the idea.
From what I’ve heard about sexual orientation in males, it seems like it would be a genuine miracle if a man changed from gay to straight. We have NARTH claiming a rather low success rate, ex-gays who claim still to have SSA even after years of therapy and marriage, and the APA’s report on effort to change sexual orientation which claimed not to be able to find evidence for success. All of this taken together allows me, with a clear conscience, to reject as unproven and probably false the idea that homosexuals can deliberately change their orientation through therapy.
But on the whole, as I said above, whether change is possible is not very interesting. The question which is of great interest is as follows (I’ll phrase it hypothetically on the off chance that Hume’s Day has come and the APA is wrong): Suppose there are gay Catholics who will never be able to change their orientation. Isn’t it true that such a person could expect never to marry, never to become a priest, or a monk or a nun, and always only to live a very solitary life out on the fringes of the Church? Is this a good thing, or a bad thing? How could you get such a Catholic to accept his or her “spiritual leprosy” with grace and humor?
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Irish_Catholic_1
Guest
Actually, I’m a little pooped out on the whole thing. I know what you are saying and you know what I am saying.
Let’s just hope that Catholics who suffer from a same-sex attraction disorder find it within themselves to live up to Catholic moral teachings to the best of their ability.
…which is part of the greater hope that all Catholics live up to all aspects of Catholic teaching. In that regard, I’m as weak as anyone else.
Let’s just hope that Catholics who suffer from a same-sex attraction disorder find it within themselves to live up to Catholic moral teachings to the best of their ability.
…which is part of the greater hope that all Catholics live up to all aspects of Catholic teaching. In that regard, I’m as weak as anyone else.
C
chrysostim83
Guest
Amen
B
Bob4BVM
Guest
Thanks.
The point is, Christ loves us.
And He is very concerned that we do not intentionally separate ourselves from Him.
Which is why he gave us the Church and the Sacraments.
And also why He warns us that the time is near…
The time spent here trying to justify this or that thing that “I WANT TO DO” , is time spent at the peril of our souls.
“Hell is Truth Seen Too Late.” (Thomas Hobbes)
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