What should a homosexual person do

[Ruthie]

What if your like me and you were attracted to only one person of the same sex? I’ve always liked boys and I still do. But just that one time I was attracted to a girl. But of course I had to deny myself of those feelings for they would separate me from God. Could a person like me still be ordained?

Possibly - assuming they were male! Those who can’t be ordained are those with “deep-seated homosexual tendencies.” A one-time attraction doesn’t sound “deep-seated” to me, especially if it wasn’t hard to deny yourself of those feelings.

I also think there’s a lot of confusion these days. We are so bombarded with sex-sex-sex that it’s easy to confuse a deep friendship (amounting to love) for someone of the same sex for SSA.

Mini-vent:
It’s a shame that adults can no longer hold hands (for example) without people assuming that they are sexually attracted to each other. Argh. They’ve even done it with Jesus. “One of his disciples, whom Jesus loved, was lying close to the breast of Jesus;” (John 13:23, RSV) supposedly means that either John or Jesus or both were homosexual.
End of vent.

God bless us all,

Ruthie

 

[puzzleannie]

I am curious about the teachings on homosexuality. Since homosexual acts are immoral, does that mean the homosexuals should not have sex forever?

Can they be priests?

they certainly may not engage in homosexual acts forever, nor may they engage in any other extra-marital sexual acts. If they at some point are successful in therapy to change this orientation, and some are, they may marry (someone of the opposite sex, obviously).

Otherwise, like the vast army of people who are unmarried for whatever reason–single, divorced, widowed, or vowed to celibacy–or the married who cannot engage in sex for whatever reason–illness or any threat to health, separation etc.-- they will permanently, or for a period of time, not be engaging in any sexual activity whatever.

no man who has a fixed homosexual orientation should be admitted to the seminary or for ordination as that condition presents a constant temptation to sin and an almost insurmountable barrier to meeting the demands of consecrated life. This ban is not something new put in place in response to the sex abuse crisis, it has always been in effect because it effects the ontological nature of the sacrificial priesthood. It simply was overlooked or deliberately flouted by many seminary rectors and bishops in the past and has been reiterated by the Vatican.

 

[jean8]

I would say that acting on homosexual desires is a choice which would be comparable to an alcholic taking a drink (leading to drunkeness which is a mortal sin). Being an alcoholic is not a choice just as being a homosexual is likely not a choice either. That doesn’t mean just because we have an internal desire towards something it’s OK to indulge in it. On the contrary, that individual must fight much harder to overcome those desires or addictions. They may or may not ever go away but with God’s help we don’t have to act on them.

caudy,
Achoholism is a decease This is a chronic disorder, an exsessive use of strong drink.With some people this requires medical help to overcome.
With homosexuality, The Bible refers to this lifestyle as sin. One that God hates. You have said that this is a choice, which is correct. Some are not aware of this as sin. However the Lord has condenmed this act as perversion.
Rom.1:24 reads “therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sinful impurity for the degrading of their bodies with ine another. 25. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served things rather than the creator-who is forever to be praised.”
26. "Because of this God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27. In the same way men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with one another. "they received unto themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
btw, I do not judge anyone, I am merely quoting scripture.

God bless,
jean8

Sin is always a choice, no matter what the sin is.

God bless,
jean8
I think God always gives us a nudge on our conscience when we are doing something wrong. This begins when we are children.

 

[Exalt]

I am curious about the teachings on homosexuality. Since homosexual acts are immoral, does that mean the homosexuals should not have sex forever?

Can they be priests?

No, they can’t be priests.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccatheduc/documents/rc_con_ccatheduc_doc_20051104_istruzione_en.html

Yes, within the Church’s teachings, they cannot ever have sex so long as they are exclusively attracted to the same sex.

Furthermore, the Church commands that they ‘gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection’ (CCC paragraph 2359) and are not permitted to engage in anything romantic (e.g., no dating, romance, etc.).

Yes, it’s cruel.

No, it makes no sense.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

It is funny how Paul found celibacy and chastity “superior” to the life of the married person, rather than “cruel”.

It seems it is only cruel to those who are entirely attached to the flesh and refuse to give it up. This life is short, and you will give it up when you die. Instead of cruel, it seems that those who give up the things of the flesh prior to death are better prepared.

 

[cristininha]

Yes, just like any un-married person.

They could, however because 99% of the child molestation cases over the past 50 years have been homosexual oriented. The Church has banned men with homesexual orientation from the priesthood at least for the near future.

Do you have any independent verifiable source for such affirmation?? Some people seem to want to blame the problem on homosexuals because they’re the easy and unpopular target of the day. It’s easier now to manipulate data and point fingers to other quarters than to recognize that for decades, the hierarchy has been shifting responsibility and trying to cover up what it knew was going on…

Worse still, the female victims are practically forgotten in this whole scenario, not because they don’t exist, but because their cases are completely shadowed by the devotion to the time consuming activity of blaming “teh gays”.

 

[caudy]

caudy,
Achoholism is a decease This is a chronic disorder, an exsessive use of strong drink.With some people this requires medical help to overcome.
With homosexuality, The Bible refers to this lifestyle as sin. One that God hates. You have said that this is a choice, which is correct. Some are not aware of this as sin. However the Lord has condenmed this act as perversion.
Rom.1:24 reads “therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sinful impurity for the degrading of their bodies with ine another. 25. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served things rather than the creator-who is forever to be praised.”
26. "Because of this God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27. In the same way men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with one another. "they received unto themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
btw, I do not judge anyone, I am merely quoting scripture.

God bless,
jean8

Sin is always a choice, no matter what the sin is.

God bless,
jean8
I think God always gives us a nudge on our conscience when we are doing something wrong. This begins when we are children.

Jean8,
Thanks. Yes Alcoholism is a disease, I know it “runs” in my family and I am a recovering alkie with five years of sobriety. As far as what kind of disease, is it physical, chemical, mental, spiritual?..probably all the above. Alcoholism is NOT necessarily an excessive use of drink (usually), it can be someone who can’t handle one drink! Alcohol is not the problem but the symptom of the disorder.

In the bible, it also speaks of Alcoholism although it doesn’t use that specific word because it did not exist at the time. Instead it states drunkards may not enter Heaven, “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” - Corinth 6:9-10.

In this passage it is specific stated that neither drunkards nor sexually immoral may enter the kingdom of God. This is grouping the ACTS of both excessive drinking and homosexuality as grave matters. It is not stating that Alcoholics or Homosexuals cannot enter Heaven, only those who are acting out.

As far as my statment about choice that you referenced above…I said it is a choice to commit the homosexual ACT not necessarily to BE homosexual. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE. Homosexuality (the desire) has not been proven to be only a choice. It is likely some kind of disease (whether mental, physical, genetic etc we don’t know for sure just like alcoholism). Now just like with Alcholism there is grey area. Just like there are people who can drink excessively on a continuing basis and stop (not alcholics just heavy drinkers), there are possibly some individuals who have sexual relations with the same gender but are not homosexual. Some call these individuals bi-sexual.

I fight the desire to take a drink on a daily basis (this is not a choice). In the same manner a true homosexual who is in recovery fights the desire to be with someone of the same sex.
I have been without drink for five years and my cravings have greatly diminished over time. A homosexual who wills to be celebate will also experience diminished desires but they will always be homosexual as I am always going to be an alcoholic.

 

[pathia]

It is funny how Paul found celibacy and chastity “superior” to the life of the married person, rather than “cruel”.

It seems it is only cruel to those who are entirely attached to the flesh and refuse to give it up. This life is short, and you will give it up when you die. Instead of cruel, it seems that those who give up the things of the flesh prior to death are better prepared.

What else is there for those that feel nothing? I went to church for the first two decades and some of my life. I have felt nothing, I have never felt God or Jesus, or anything. Church is merely this cold place where I feel lonely, because no one there wants to be a part of my life.

What is there for someone, when God does not appear to be there? I try so hard, but I have never felt anything special at any point in my life outside of the company of other human beings in friendship and created families, since my own are not comfortable with my chosen way of living despite the fact I am not sexually active. Simply, they are not comfortable in the fact I will not ‘cure’ myself and marry.

How can you ask someone to give something up, because of something they don’t ever feel?

 

[Angels_Unaware]

What else is there for those that feel nothing? I went to church for the first two decades and some of my life. I have felt nothing, I have never felt God or Jesus, or anything. Church is merely this cold place where I feel lonely, because no one there wants to be a part of my life.

What is there for someone, when God does not appear to be there? I try so hard, but I have never felt anything special at any point in my life outside of the company of other human beings in friendship and created families, since my own are not comfortable with my chosen way of living despite the fact I am not sexually active. Simply, they are not comfortable in the fact I will not ‘cure’ myself and marry.

How can you ask someone to give something up, because of something they don’t ever feel?

This is idolatry that you are struggling with, an idolatry of flesh. People have replaced God for you.

You are attached to other human beings, but those other human beings cannot save you from death. Logically, if you continue to remain attached spiritually to them, then you will all die together in the flesh. This is not a principle that applies only to homosexuals, of course. It applies to heterosexuals in sexual sin and people who are addicted through the flesh in other ways.

This is very difficult to explain, and I know this may fail as an explanation, but I will try to explain.

When you die, if you do not have eternal life, then what is of God in you will return to God. What I mean is that all good impulses are stripped away from those who have died without eternal life. If you do not have eternal life, then when the wheat is separated from the chaff, then “you”, your sense of conscious being, will be lost in the chaff, and burned, instead of being with God.

You still have good in you, and something that seeks God. That is why you are here on CAF. You truly want to know God, and not have the empty feeling.

I wish I could tell you how to apprehend God, but I cannot explain to you. It is a knowledge and an experience that comes through the spritual eyes, not the flesh. The best I can say is to pray for the knowledge of God.

 

[pathia]

This is idolatry that you are struggling with, an idolatry of flesh. People have replaced God for you.

Flesh? I just have friends I like to be with, that’s all I have. I do not have sex with them, I am not speaking of sexual encounters here. I am chaste/celibate, I do not engage in sexual activity of any sort.

I have friends that I go to the movies with, that I enjoy having dinner with.

If I am supposed to forgo this, then I am supposed to be a hermit? Is that what you are saying?

The best I can say is to pray for the knowledge of God.

I have prayed for hours, days, fasted, starved myself to the point of insanity. Knelt so long that my knees burst open and I bled on the floor.

Exactly how much prayer is one to do, before it is the equivalent of beating one’s head against the wall? I tried, I continue to try in other ways.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Flesh? I just have friends I like to be with, that’s all I have. I do not have sex with them, I am not speaking of sexual encounters here. I am chaste/celibate, I do not engage in sexual activity of any sort.

I have friends that I go to the movies with, that I enjoy having dinner with.

If I am supposed to forgo this, then I am supposed to be a hermit? Is that what you are saying?

I have prayed for hours, days, fasted, starved myself to the point of insanity. Knelt so long that my knees burst open and I bled on the floor.

Exactly how much prayer is one to do, before it is the equivalent of beating one’s head against the wall? I tried, I continue to try in other ways.

The point of idolatry has nothing to do with sex. You can certainly have a problem with putting people before God without having sex with them.

The only thing that occurred to me is that if you derive a sense of energy and peace from your friends, as you seemed to say, then perhaps that is what prevents you from hearing the still, small voice of God.

I really do not have a good answer for you on why you do not sense God, but want to. God says if you seek Him, then He is there. Perhaps you are seeking the wrong thing? Or perhaps you have not recognized it when God is there?

I am not of good help for this problem. Perhaps someone else who has experienced it can be of more help.

 

[guanophore]

What else is there for those that feel nothing? I went to church for the first two decades and some of my life. I have felt nothing, I have never felt God or Jesus, or anything. Church is merely this cold place where I feel lonely, because no one there wants to be a part of my life.

What is there for someone, when God does not appear to be there? I try so hard, but I have never felt anything special at any point in my life outside of the company of other human beings in friendship and created families, since my own are not comfortable with my chosen way of living despite the fact I am not sexually active. Simply, they are not comfortable in the fact I will not ‘cure’ myself and marry.

How can you ask someone to give something up, because of something they don’t ever feel?

This is a good question, and illustrates that obedience to God must not be based on “feelings”. He said “when you have done all that is commanded say, ‘we are unworthy servant, and have only done that which is our duty.’”

I am quite certain that Jesus did not want to take up the cross and carry it. When we obey Him in faith, though the feelings will follow.

If there is something we are not willing to give up, such as a lifestyle, then we are holding back on God. He may be waiting for us to “let go” so that He can catch us up, and carry us to where He intends for us to be. Look at Mother Teresa. She often “felt nothing” yet persisted all her life in service.

 

[pathia]

The only thing that occurred to me is that if you derive a sense of energy and peace from your friends, as you seemed to say, then perhaps that is what prevents you from hearing the still, small voice of God.

I really do not have a good answer for you on why you do not sense God, but want to. God says if you seek Him, then He is there. Perhaps you are seeking the wrong thing? Or perhaps you have not recognized it when God is there?.

It keeps me from going crazy and I don’t mean that figuratively

The last time I tried to be a hermit, because this is what I was told to do upon asking for spiritual advice, I ended up on the street and homeless wandering around, ran out of meds and turned into one of those crazy eyed people you don’t want to make eye contact with on the street. The only time I ‘feel’ anything is when I am off my medications, but what I ‘feel’ is destructive to myself and others, so I’m pretty sure it’s not God.

I wish I could say you’re right, but I would be willing to accept that what I am doing is wrong, but God doesn’t even voice this. There is nothing, just absolutely silence and a lack of even a void. There’s not even anything ‘missing’ it’s just…blank, nothing there. It’s like trying to grab a contact lens that you can’t see, I just do it over and over and no results.

If there is something we are not willing to give up, such as a lifestyle, then we are holding back on God.

Again, what is there for me to give up? When I give up the contact of humans, I go insane, literally. I am speaking of social contact, not sexual activity.

 

[guanophore]

It keeps me from going crazy and I don’t mean that figuratively

The last time I tried to be a hermit, because this is what I was told to do upon asking for spiritual advice, I ended up on the street and homeless wandering around, ran out of meds and turned into one of those crazy eyed people you don’t want to make eye contact with on the street. The only time I ‘feel’ anything is when I am off my medications, but what I ‘feel’ is destructive to myself and others, so I’m pretty sure it’s not God.

Can’t argue with that.

I wish I could say you’re right, but I would be willing to accept that what I am doing is wrong, but God doesn’t even voice this. There is nothing, just absolutely silence and a lack of even a void. There’s not even anything ‘missing’ it’s just…blank, nothing there. It’s like trying to grab a contact lens that you can’t see, I just do it over and over and no results.

God has voiced sufficient in the scripture and the teaching of the Church. If you follow what is given to you, you will get more.

This is a situation where obedience is primary. One must persist in doing what is right, fixing one’s eyes upon Jesus.

Again, what is there for me to give up? When I give up the contact of humans, I go insane, literally. I am speaking of social contact, not sexual activity.

I gathered, though, that your social contact was not given in the service of the needy,but in friendships with other homosexuals. Did I get that right?

 

[pathia]

I gathered, though, that your social contact was not given in the service of the needy,but in friendships with other homosexuals. Did I get that right?

No, active gays do not really want to associate with someone who chooses not to be active at all.

It hurts me, I do not know how I could service the needy to be honest. I am so sickly I barely can hold down a 40hour a week job. Most of the time outside of that, I’m recovering from the strain at home. When I say ‘time with my friends’ I mean maybe 2-4hours a month. That’s all i need to not go crazy. Most of the rest of my time is caught up in medical appointments, therapy and the 12hours of sleep I need to not pass out in a faint at work. The meds I am on cause extreme intolerance to germs/sickness and a very high sensitivity to sunlight (I joke I am a vampire at times, because I simply can’t go outside easily).

I have been celibate my entire life, I have yet to feel anything or feel any direction. The church says I am ‘fine’ with what I am doing now, but I don’t feel fine, because I don’t feel anything. I often think the drugs are clouding my mind and hiding God, but when I go off them, things get much worse and I start hurting myself.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Pathia, I am not going to be able to give you the answers you need, because I am not God, and I am pitifully unable to understand your experiences.

However, let me clarify that I do not think you should be a hermit, especially if it causes you intense emotional distress, and perhaps the advice given to you in the past was similar to what I am trying to say now. What I am trying to say is not to isolate yourself, but instead to focus your hope and help not on human beings but on God.

This must be terribly difficult for you if you do not understand what God is, and have no spiritual sense of God.

I am actually going to conclude that you have a heavy cross in the form of some kind of physical, neurological problem, evidenced in the problems you’ve experienced before. In that case, you just need to know this- God is with you. Peace is given unto you. Salvation is yours if you desire it. You simply may never experientially know God because of whatever is going on in your brian that causes the reception of God to be disrupted.

Therefore, simply behave as if you know God is with you. Just be obedient. Continue to go to Church, though you feel empty. Continue to pray, though it seems empty. Trust that God is there though you cannot see Him. Imagine that God is holding your hand every step of the way, and when your time on earth is over, you will miraculously see Him, and all will make perfect sense.

This is what Mother Teresa had to do, and others who had long periods of longing for God, and not being able to experience him.

Why not read the stories of the saints? Their stories could keep you company for a very long time.

 

[pathia]

Therefore, simply behave as if you know God is with you. Just be obedient. Continue to go to Church, though you feel empty. Continue to pray, though it seems empty. Trust that God is there though you cannot see Him. Imagine that God is holding your hand every step of the way, and when your time on earth is over, you will miraculously see Him, and all will make perfect sense.

That feels like lying.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

That feels like lying.

You’ve got it backwards. You are not testifying to the truth of God. God has already testified to the truth. You are stepping out onto a promise that has already been made.

If you did not believe in gravity, and I said, trust me, you can walk without flying into the sky, would you refuse to do it because to do so would be “lying”? It isn’t about you and what you think reality is, it’s about an objective state of independent reality.

 

[caudy]

Pathia,

Read the diary of St. Faustina Kowalska. our.homewithgod.com/divinemercy/

Also I would recommend praying the rosary and asking Mother Mary to intercede on your behalf. Tell her what you are feeling and you need help.

 

[goofyjim]

They should stay celibate or find an understanding person of the opposite gender who would marry them. But they should not have to be secretive about it their whole lives. This creates a burden of having to go it alone which noone should have to do. There is nothing to fear in the orientation alone. It is only the actions that cause problems. As far as the mental illness they can lead balanced lvies like anyone else. The orientation should not be considered some illness which needs to be medically treated.