What should a man struggling with Homosexuality do? (Women, feel free to reply too)

[BibleReader]

m134e5:

While your statement is true, it is also very disgusting- most of us know what homosexual activities involve- there is no need to be so descriptive.

I believe that there IS a need to be somewhat descriptive.

People hide as much as they can from themselves to deceive themselves.

As a consequence, those who favor the right to chop their own offspring in their own womb up into little pieces or to inject them with salt while the little one struggles for his life call themselves “pro-choicers.” They make a morally grizzly act sound pleasant, wonderful, desirable – something God loves!

Those who cheat God by stealing sexual pleasure from God by artificially disconnecting sex from the risk of reproduction to maximize access to sexual pleasure call it “protection,” when it’s really being a pig.

Entire societies now are swinging around, calling the act of copulating with another human’s sewer system “love” and “gay,” and never mentioning the unmentionable, to hide the realitry of what they are approving as legal and desirable – making love to a sewer – from themselves. The psychiatric profession – the entire licensed profession – has declared it improper to refer to making love to the sewer system of another of the same gender as “abnormal.”

I believe that it is actually immoral to cooperate with the euphemization of the terminology of sin. It is the same thing as referring to the mass murder of of a large group of babies, children, women and men in Germany in WWII as “the final solution,” as “cleansing.” It is all the same thing – social self-deception, to make sin an easier, happier thing to do.

 

[BibleReader]

By the way, that wonderful homosexual man who was one of my mentors did talk bluntly about homosexuality.

As far as he was concerned, a male homosexual who keeps his pants on is more of a male, more of a man, as God envisions a “man,” than a man who “grazes” the female population, fornicating wildly, and even more of a man than a married man loyal to his wife. Why? Simple: The homosexual man who acknowledges the brokenness of his sexual machine and so refrains from improper sexual activity does more to honor the gender roles established by God than even a moral married man.

 

[Gnosis]

When we look to the gay community, there is no doubt that we see a sub-culture driven by sex. But I think we must ask ourselves why. Why does it seem that the homosexual wants only sex? Personally I believe that society has driven homosexuals into this state.

For the past two thousand years, our culture had been violently anti-homosexual, something that has only begun to be undone in the last fifty years. Every where you go, the message is clear, or it has been at least clear to me: If your gay, the world does not want you.

And thats the thing, the world has forced the homosexual to identify himself on the basis of sexuality. Of course there’s more to a person than who he or she wants to sleep with!! But does the Chruch act that way? Certainly not! The church says that if you’re a practicing gay, then you’ll burn. The Church does not see practicing gays as anything more than their sexuality. Homosexuals have been forced to see their sexuality as the very heart of their personal identity…becuase it is their sexuality that the world can not get past.

How can we expect homosexuals to exist in long-term committed relationships, when society refuses to acknowledge them?For so long society had refused to give a gay couple equal rights, from marriage to other benefits. It was only forty years ago that homosexuality was punishable by law! Is it really reasonable to expect that committed couples could survive under such persecution? And yet, they still do!

In Canada, same-sex marriage was just legalized. I know there are homosexuals out there who are just in it for the sex, but you can’t be so ignorant as to blanket all gay people under that. If there was a push for same-sex marriage, then we can understand that there are gay couples who want to committ their lives to one another.

Lets not be so ignorant as to assume there’s only straight or gay either, there’s all kinds of degrees of sexual attraction. Some people may find themselves to be attracted to one sex, then later feel a pull to another. The important thing is being true to yourself. If you find the homosexual lifestyle is burdening you then leave it, but don’t assume that it must be that way for everyone.

 

[mitzi1155]

We may want to steal, murder, have an affair, any number of sins but we choose not to because it is wrong and we do not want to take the wrong path.

Accept who you are and what you are, but do not act on it. Do not commit the sin. Choose to do right. I believe if you turn from actually acting out you are innocent.

 

[Edwin1961]

mitzi1155:

We may want to steal, murder, have an affair, any number of sins but we choose not to because it is wrong and we do not want to take the wrong path.

Accept who you are and what you are, but do not act on it. Do not commit the sin. Choose to do right. I believe if you turn from actually acting out you are innocent.

In the Epistles it is said that we are to ‘flee from sin’. Sin not only kills the soul, it compounds the weight of our sins upon our Lord (since our Lord suffered through the weight of sins for ALL of humanity in the Garden of Gethsamene).

If you love somone, you don’t want to see or left them be hurt. Nuff said.

 

[mitzi1155]

If you love somone, you don’t want to see or left them be hurt. Nuff said.

What do you mean by the above? What does it have to do with my post?

 

[Gnosis]

If you love someone, you don’t want to see or let them be hurt

And yet Christianity has not really taken up this policy when it comes to homosexuals! The Church expects me to live a lonely half existence in the name of God, or I will face hell. Don’t you understand the implications of this doctrine? I face so much pain sometimes, not because I’m gay, but because how the world reacts to my sexuality! If I love a man, its not hurting anyone! Yet the Church will refuse to acknowledge our love and will threaten me with hell fire! The Christian position on homosexuality is so toxic and has so thoroughly pervaded the Western conscience that it has destroyed lives. Is it a wonder that nearly 30% of teenage suicides are homosexual? We as, homosexuals, are given the ultumatim of being thoroughly unhappy, alone and unable to love those we really love, or otherwise face an eternity of unhappiness. Some how I feel that if God truly loves me, he would have arranged things otherwise.

 

[BibleReader]

Gnosis:

If you love someone, you don’t want to see or let them be hurt

And yet Christianity has not really taken up this policy when it comes to homosexuals! The Church expects me to live a lonely half existence in the name of God, or I will face hell. Don’t you understand the implications of this doctrine? I face so much pain sometimes, not because I’m gay, but because how the world reacts to my sexuality! If I love a man, its not hurting anyone! Yet the Church will refuse to acknowledge our love and will threaten me with hell fire! The Christian position on homosexuality is so toxic and has so thoroughly pervaded the Western conscience that it has destroyed lives. Is it a wonder that nearly 30% of teenage suicides are homosexual? We as, homosexuals, are given the ultumatim of being thoroughly unhappy, alone and unable to love those we really love, or otherwise face an eternity of unhappiness. Some how I feel that if God truly loves me, he would have arranged things otherwise.

Hi, Gnosis.

It seems to me that refraining from those acts which homosexuals substitute for intercourse – anal/genital and oral/genital contact, and (I’m not sure of this next one, I only heard it once when I used to be in the Philly DAs Office) oral/anal contact – does not equal loneliness.

No matter what, the issue of whether people are being “hurt” is difficult to prove somatically, either way, because much of what is being talked about is simply invisible.

You write, “The Christian position on homosexuality is so toxic and has so thoroughly pervaded the Western conscience that it has destroyed lives.” Perhaps, what is “pervasive” is not “Christianity,” but rather pre-existing biologically pre-wired taboos, which Christianity merely ratifies.

In other words, homosexuals are at war with Nature. Perhaps Nature doesn’t like anal intercourse, or climactic oral/genital contact, and so she erects in each of us naturally-occurring psychological barriers which say, “DON’T DO THAT!,” and are outraged when homosexuals or heterosexuals violate this pre-existing psychological shape.

Perhaps THAT is also your reason for the higher-than-average homosexual suicide rate.

If you say, “That’s not true! I’m not at war with pre-wired naturally-occurring taboos! I would know the answer to that better than a heterosexual!” my response would be, “Well, perhaps because Nature has left those pre-wired to be homosexuals ‘stranded,’ by not giving them something comparable to the complimentary genitalia of men and women, you lack the objectivity to know the answer to the question.”

In fact, the ones doing the “hurting” may be homsexuals warring with pre-wired Nature.

 

[Edwin1961]

mitzi1155:

If you love somone, you don’t want to see or left them be hurt. Nuff said.

What do you mean by the above? What does it have to do with my post?
I was referring to Jesus. By our sins we continue to have Him feel the pain for our sins since Jesus is outside of time and both 100% God and 100% Man.

Also, we should not desire to let people slip away the wonderful gifts God has given us…His Son, His Church and the spreading of the Gospel. God desires that no one should go to Hell. Being in the ‘lifestyle’ is one way souls will go there, we should talk to those involved in this sin with charity and if they desire to ‘live out their sexual desires’ then we have no choice to let them be.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

And yet Christianity has not really taken up this policy when it comes to homosexuals!

If you listen to fundamentalists like John Hagee and Fred Phelps and the like, you would certainly be led to think that, wouldn’t you? Guess what? People like that aren’t the measure of what makes a Christian. Jesus Christ is the measure.

The Church expects me to live a lonely half existence in the name of God, or I will face hell.

No. Some people expect that, but the Church certainly doesn’t. Here’s the Church’s prescription for people with homosexual attractions: “Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.”

See the part about disinterested friendship? What is meant by that is that they aren’t interested in gaining anything from you other than your friendship.

Don’t you understand the implications of this doctrine?

I understand the implications of the authentic teachings of the Church. The Church expects you to live a chaste life. The Church doesn’t say that you aren’t to have close friends, even same-sex friends.

I face so much pain sometimes, not because I’m gay, but because how the world reacts to my sexuality!

Baloney! That’s what the gay movement wants you to believe. You are in so much pain because there’s a great big hole in your psyche and your sense of self that wasn’t filled properly when it should have been.

If I love a man, its not hurting anyone!

Depends on what you mean by the word ‘love,’ doesn’t it? It’s possible to love another man in a non-sexual way. In fact, that’s what true friendship is all about.

Let me tell you from experience. Most homosexual sexual encounters are anonymous, not acts of love in a committed relationship. Think you’re going to be different? I thought so, too. I was wrong and you’ll find the same thing.

Yet the Church will refuse to acknowledge our love and will threaten me with hell fire!

The Church threatens no one. The Church warns people of the consequences of choosing to sin and refusal to repent and trust in God.

The Christian position on homosexuality is so toxic and has so thoroughly pervaded the Western conscience that it has destroyed lives.

Yes, people like John Hagee and Fred Phelps and the rest of the religious right’s band of hate-filled wack jobs are certainly no help. Let me tell you…you are NOT predestined to hellfire. You CAN have eternal life with Jesus. He wants you to go to heaven more than you want to go there. The Church wants you to go to heaven. The Church’s position on this topic is the most well thought out, from a religious perspective, that I have ever read. It holds fast to the truths set forth in Sacred Scripture and Apostolic Tradition but in a way that is humanizing and empowering.

You aren’t an animal that has to be lead around by its hormones and instincts. You are a person, a human being who is created in the image and likeness of God…a beloved son of the eternal Father. Within you is an inherent dignity of personhood. Also within you is a deep, aching hole that cries out to be filled (after all, nature abhors a vacuum). That hole is your need to identify with and relate to your own inherent masculinity. That’s what you’re seeking out in sexual partners.

I know exactly how it feels because I’m there, too. I know what it feels like to feel like I’m some sort of outsider among straight men. I watch them and am terrified at the notion of trying to relate to them.

Is it a wonder that nearly 30% of teenage suicides are homosexual?

No, it’s no wonder at all. People who are homosexually attracted are hurting deeply and it’s not society that’s doing it. It’s a hurt that is deep because of that aching hole inside of each of us that is crying out to be filled.

–cont–

 

[LCMS_No_More]

–cont–

We as, homosexuals, are given the ultumatim of being thoroughly unhappy, alone and unable to love those we really love, or otherwise face an eternity of unhappiness.

Once again, you don’t have to be unhappy or alone. First, happiness is a choice you make regardless of your circumstances. All Christians are called to be content. Look at the lives of the New Testament saints. They were beaten, chained and killed, all for their faith, yet they had joy and happiness because they loved God first.

Second, you don’t have to be alone. The interesting thing about chastity is that having good, solid friendships precludes sexual relations. It’s hard from some people here to understand that, but it’s definitely true. Also, I realize how difficult it is to try to find good, solid friends. I only have one good friend and he used to be my lover! I have no clue where to begin finding new friends, so don’t ask me…one would think Church would be a good place but all the fellowship genes went over to the protestants, I guess, because no one has ever taken a moment to introduce themselves to me at a Catholic parish…ever. My issues of feeling intimidated by straight men precludes me from making much effort in this area.

Some how I feel that if God truly loves me, he would have arranged things otherwise.

Um…that’s a crock. Jesus calls his disciples (and all Christians are called to be His disciples) to pick up their cross every day and follow Him. For some of us, that cross takes on the form of homosexual attractions. We show we love Him by bearing that cross manfully and with a joyful heart.

 

[Gnosis]

Unfortunately the reality of the situation is being ignored. Whilst it may be the experiecne of some that the gay community can only offer endless sex, a longing that will be futile in the end, it is certainly not true for all and, again, to say so is grossly irresponsible.

I think most of you are missing the point. I find myself often overwhelmed, not because I am gay, but as I said, I fear only the backlash that will result when I tell people so. We all have a fear of not being accepted. This is the root of my problem, I do not stress out at night thinking “I’m attratcted to men, whatever shall I do!” No, I feel physically sick at times because I am worried that those I love, my family, my friends, will no longer love me.
Yet some here are adamant that they know me better than I know myself. They say I am unhappy because there’s some gaping hole inside. Yet you do not even know me, and you make all your conclusions about my life based on my sexuality…and yet you tell me that there is more to me than my sexuality…a contradiction.

You say the Church offers me happiness and forgiveness. Yet I feel no need to be forgiven, I feel that it is up to me to forgive the Church for the pyschological harm it has done to me. I have a bitterness inside that I wish to quell.

You say the Church offers me chastity as the alternative. Some here may be willing to live a life without sex, but I am not. Does this make me a sexually pervertted pig? I think not, let me explain:

I have many close…very close friends. There’s a girl that, if I was straight, I would marry her in a second. I know the intimacy of friendship. Yet the beauty of sex is a union, when two people, who have already been bound in their love for one another, take that relationship to the sexual, it then becomes a spiritual experience. Two people, unified, in body, in mind, in spirit. So what if its two men or two women? Love can not be denied. We all seek a balance in our lives, a middle path. This is why the masculine seeks the feminie. But are we now so naive as to think that the masculine is defined by the penis alone, or the feminine by the vagina? Certainly not. The feminine can and does exist in the male, and the masculine in the female. For what really is the difference between a male and female? Are they not separated only by the flesh? What is the flesh? Are we not all human beings? Does not love extend even beyond the physcial? And, in that sense, does not love extend beyond gender? I believe that sex is the physcial expression of a spiritual union. It is every human being’s right, and the Church has no place to deny it from anyone, or to shame us from desiring it. What I seek is the completion of myself, just as any other human being would seek, for we find that we are never truly human until our humanity is brought forward by others, in love, in selflessness, in living for someone else. If I find that love, If I find that completion in a member of the same sex, then I will not hesitate, for when I have found that love, I have found God, for it is His very essence.

Loving homosexual relationships harm no one, and yet they enrich and complete the lives of those who have found them. Again, if homosexuality was only about lust, would there then be a push for same sex marriage?

Perhaps you are willing to give up the joy and mystery of the union of the physical and spiritual to some sexless pontiff, but I will not, I only wish that I was not so wrongfully shamed for the human longing that the Church, to this day, remains inexplicably terrified of.

 

[abaze]

Gnosis knows what he’s talking about. He rocks my SOCKS. Since I’m not so hardcore into all of this forum stuff I just have one thing to say: you people are being ignorant and rude to him and maybe if you took your head out of the bible for 2 seconds you’d understand where he’s coming from. I did it and I’ve never seen the world more clearly. Keep up the good work Gnosis. I know Sdog would be proud.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Wow…I remember how it was when I knew everything. That was, what? About 15-20 years ago back when I was a teen.

Yes, right now you think you know everything. You’re being told what you want to hear by the people who do NOT have your best interests at heart. The gay community looks enticing and that it’s full of the promise of fulfillment in the arms of another man. Oh, I remember it well…until I got bored with the same arms of the same man every night who I got to know all too well. Then it was off to look for something new…some “fresh meat,” as it were.

Yes, you think I’m being presumptuous by telling you what you already know yet claiming, “you don’t know me!” Uh huh. Sounds so bloody familiar.

Okay. I’ve given you the truth of the matter. When you’re 35 and lonely and wondering what happened to all the promises of peace and fulfillment in the arms of another man…and another…and another…and another…and another…and what was his name? did I even ask?, I pray that you’ll remember that old LCMS_No_More’s post and that you’ll come back to the Church.

Not because I want to be right…that’s not what’s important. What’s important to me is that YOU do what is right before God. I actually care about YOU as a person first. If you take nothing away from my post, take that.

Pax tecum.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

abaze:

Gnosis knows what he’s talking about. He rocks my SOCKS. Since I’m not so hardcore into all of this forum stuff I just have one thing to say: you people are being ignorant and rude to him and maybe if you took your head out of the bible for 2 seconds you’d understand where he’s coming from. I did it and I’ve never seen the world more clearly. Keep up the good work Gnosis. I know Sdog would be proud.

If you had actually read my post, you’d see that I’m neither ignorant nor rude. I’ve lived it for 15 years. Guess what? It only leads to loneliness, depression and desperation. That’s not society, that’s the bloody truth. Sure, gayness looks fun. “It’s rainin’ men, Hallelujah! It’s rainin’ men! A-men!” “I love the night life…” Yeah. I remember. It gets old after a while.

 

[m134e5]

abaze:

Gnosis knows what he’s talking about. He rocks my SOCKS. Since I’m not so hardcore into all of this forum stuff I just have one thing to say: you people are being ignorant and rude to him and maybe if you took your head out of the bible for 2 seconds you’d understand where he’s coming from. I did it and I’ve never seen the world more clearly. Keep up the good work Gnosis. I know Sdog would be proud.

There are others here who are older than he is, who have been in the gay lifestyle for longer than he has been- if he has been in it at all. There are people here who have been in committed relationships as well- and they still see how wrong it is. They are just as credible as he is- if not more so, because they have more personal experience.

 

[contemplative]

Gnosis:

You say the Church offers me happiness and forgiveness. Yet I feel no need to be forgiven, I feel that it is up to me to forgive the Church for the pyschological harm it has done to me. I have a bitterness inside that I wish to quell.

I have many close…very close friends. There’s a girl that, if I was straight, I would marry her in a second. I know the intimacy of friendship. Yet the beauty of sex is a union, when two people, who have already been bound in their love for one another, take that relationship to the sexual, it then becomes a spiritual experience. Two people, unified, in body, in mind, in spirit. So what if its two men or two women? Love can not be denied. We all seek a balance in our lives, a middle path. This is why the masculine seeks the feminie. But are we now so naive as to think that the masculine is defined by the penis alone, or the feminine by the vagina? Certainly not. The feminine can and does exist in the male, and the masculine in the female. For what really is the difference between a male and female? Are they not separated only by the flesh? What is the flesh? Are we not all human beings? Does not love extend even beyond the physcial? And, in that sense, does not love extend beyond gender? I believe that sex is the physcial expression of a spiritual union. It is every human being’s right, and the Church has no place to deny it from anyone, or to shame us from desiring it. What I seek is the completion of myself, just as any other human being would seek, for we find that we are never truly human until our humanity is brought forward by others, in love, in selflessness, in living for someone else. If I find that love, If I find that completion in a member of the same sex, then I will not hesitate, for when I have found that love, I have found God, for it is His very essence.

Loving homosexual relationships harm no one, and yet they enrich and complete the lives of those who have found them. Again, if homosexuality was only about lust, would there then be a push for same sex marriage?

Perhaps you are willing to give up the joy and mystery of the union of the physical and spiritual to some sexless pontiff, but I will not, I only wish that I was not so wrongfully shamed for the human longing that the Church, to this day, remains inexplicably terrified of.

You justify same-sex unions in purely worldly terms.
I sometimes gauge what I should do by asking myself this.
When I get to heaven can I justify to God why…
I rubbed my own genitalia for pleasure?
Why did I touch or lust after someone else’s genitalia?
What was the purpose?
In what way did I take the energy and body that God gave me and waste it?
How might my selfish desire of sexual satisfaction take away from the love God deserves from me?and those who truly depend on me?
These questions I ask can all be readjusted to fit any sensuous desire of the body.
For example I will use laziness.
It is true that our bodies are inclined to rest.
How does my laziness take away from the love God deserves from me?and those who truly depend on me?
and again
How does my appetite for food detract from the love God deserves from me? and those who truly depend on me?
How does my greed for money detract from the love God deserves from me? and those who truly depend on me?
These are all questions that we should ask ourselves daily. The problem today is that more people are focused on their own selfish desires that they are forgetting to examine their consciences daily and confess their sins to God regularly.
So again I remind you Gnosis that you are speaking on purely worldly ways. Take a moment and ask yourself how your thoughts and deeds have anything to do with glorifying God?The Church has beautifully outlined the purest vision of sexuality for men and women in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I suggest taking the time to prayfully read it. Lose your ‘self’ for God just for the moment you read the words.
And by the way, Pope Benedict XVI is far from sexless and neither are the many that came before him. Furthermore, Catholics and many other Christians for that matter joyously and thankfully dedicate their lives to loving God and not their genitals (or someone elses).

 

[contemplative]

The Act of Contrition

O my God,
I am heartily sorry for
having offended Thee,
and I detest all my sins,
because I dread the loss of heaven,
and the pains of hell;
but most of all because
they offend Thee, my God,
Who are all good and
deserving of all my love.
I firmly resolve,
with the help of Thy grace,
to confess my sins,
to do penance,
and to amend my life.

Amen.

 

[felra]

I think most of you are missing the point. I find myself often overwhelmed, not because I am gay, but as I said, I fear only the backlash that will result when I tell people so. We all have a fear of not being accepted. This is the root of my problem, …

So the solution to the “root” of your problem would be broad based acceptance? Okay, imagine that this were the case/reality, then you would assume that you could then move on to focus on other apsects of your life than your sexuality? This sounds like a superficial analysis. I suggest that you set a while with this imagining and give it some thought (maybe you will realize that there is more to it than that).

You say the Church offers me happiness and forgiveness. Yet I feel no need to be forgiven, I feel that it is up to me to forgive the Church for the pyschological harm it has done to me. I have a bitterness inside that I wish to quell.

Is your bitterness with the Church, or is it more with any authority or person telling you that in order to be part of a whole bigger than yourself and your personal preference, that your choice of behavior, activity (whatever it may be) will not be condoned? Maybe more a symptom of an adolescent rebellious attitude, than your choice of lifestyle based on sexual preference? Can’t always have it your way. Let’s not turn the tables and make it more than it is, really, be honest now. Who likes to be told “No” for our own good? (whether we realize that it is good or not).

It is every human being’s right, and the Church has no place to deny it from anyone, or to shame us from desiring it.

More of that adolescent rebellion speaking here.

I believe that sex is the physcial expression of a spiritual union. What I seek is the completion of myself, just as any other human being would seek, for we find that we are never truly human until our humanity is brought forward by others, in love, in selflessness, in living for someone else. If I find that love, If I find that completion in a member of the same sex, then I will not hesitate, for when I have found that love, I have found God, for it is His very essence.

You are definitely on to something here. The problem is, this is called “Looking for love in all the wrong places” (perhaps you have heard the song). Dont’t fret though, you are not the first one (and I am not strictly speaking about those claiming to posses a SSA). However, there is one major flaw in your above formulation (that the movies routinely get wrong): human love and union, however transcendent, is only a dull reflection of God’s love, it is NOT GOD. (I don’t mean to split hairs on you here, I just didn’t want a thoughful fellow as you thinking that he has found the real thing, when in reality it is only “fool’s gold”).

Loving homosexual relationships harm no one, and yet they enrich and complete the lives of those who have found them. Again, if homosexuality was only about lust, would there then be a push for same sex marriage?

See the testimony post of LCMS_No_More for another perspective.

I only wish that I was not so wrongfully shamed for the human longing that the Church, to this day, remains inexplicably terrified of.

I am part of this Church, no terror here.

 

[MeaCulpa]

For the life of me I cannot see why homosexuals see themselves as requiring any different treatment than the rest of us.

If you are a homosexual you face the same temptations as the heterosexual and chastity is the only answer.

You simply live your life in accordance with the Churches teachings ---- including all the ten commandments.

Stop focusing on the sexual part of Homosexuality and focus on living a good life.