What should Catholics do?

[jimmy]

Subrosa:

What do you think? Should the Catholic Church rescind teachings such as Purgatory, The Immaculate Conception, Papal Primacy, etc. in order to fascilitate unification with the Orthodox Churches?

Or would that be going too far?

There are more differences, add them into the list!.

No, why would the Catholic Church, the Church which Christ founded, rescind anything? It is the job of the Orthodox to conform to the “One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church”. By rescinding the doctrines the Church would deny its own authority.

Should they rescind the 4th through 7th councils so that union with the Oriental Orthodox would be possible? Of course not!! It is them who must conform to the Church, and it is the same with the Greeks and the Russians and other Eastern Orthodox.

 

[jimmy]

Irenicist:

Does this mean that the catechism claims that these truths have found perfect expression? The formulations can’t be improved on, clarified, or restated in different terms? Wow! The Creed was revised several times by successive Ecumenical Councils, but the definitions in the catechism cannot be further refined by one iota?

I humbly suggest that this would be a case of confusing the truth with the words used to express it. If this really were the Church’s position, why bother with any ecumenical dialogue? It would be a waste of time. Just hand your interlocutors the catechism as the sufficient, unchanging and self-explaining word of God for their edification, and move on to more productive ventures. Oh wait! Haven’t I heard this sort of thing before from Protestants? Oh right, they only apply this to Scripture. Silly me.

Irenicist

The Catechism is not infallable, so the way things are expressed can be changed as long as the doctrine is not changed. In fact, there are different ways in which things are expressed within the Catholic Church. Look at the Byzantine Catholics versus the Latin Catholics. They have very different ways of expressing doctrines, but they are complimentary. They do not contradict.

 

[jimmy]

ByzCath:

What? Thats the right way, the way we Byzantines do it.

You Romans are doing it backwards.

Which way you cross yourself is irrelevant. It does not change the faith.

 

[Irenicist]

jimmy:

The Catechism is not infallable, so the way things are expressed can be changed as long as the doctrine is not changed. In fact, there are different ways in which things are expressed within the Catholic Church. Look at the Byzantine Catholics versus the Latin Catholics. They have very different ways of expressing doctrines, but they are complimentary. They do not contradict.

This is exactly my point. We as Catholics have to be open to new ways of expressing what we have always believed. This is the essence of the ecumenical approach. Talk, understand each other, learn to make distinctions, explore new ways of stating (or even thinking about) the eternal truths in a balanced nuanced and honest way.

Even then, we may still find that the remaining differences are both fundamental and irreconcilable. In which case we will have done as much as we can. To make progress, however, both sides have to be willing to look at their language and formulations anew.

Because of its inherent true “unity in diversity” and varied liturgy, I find the Catholic Church more advanced along this path than most others, but some of our Orthodox brothers and sisters are there with us. Others (and a distressing number of Catholics as well), however, still seem to be unwilling to strive for untiy without the other side having to approach on bended knee and admit it was wrong all along. It might come to that in the end, but this is a singularly unproductive approach with which to start.

Let’s assume as a starting point that we have misunderstood each other and see if we can apply a Catholic understanding to typically Orthodox beliefs and practices (the Jesus prayer and the uncreated light, early chrismation, corrupted nature vs.original sin, etc.) while inviting them to consider to what degree typically Catholic beliefs and practices can fit in the Orthodox tradition (primacy, the rosary, the Immaculate Conception, Purgatory, etc.).

Irenicist

 

[jimmy]

Irenicist:

This is exactly my point. We as Catholics have to be open to new ways of expressing what we have always believed. This is the essence of the ecumenical approach. Talk, understand each other, learn to make distinctions, explore new ways of stating (or even thinking about) the eternal truths in a balanced nuanced and honest way.
…
Let’s assume as a starting point that we have misunderstood each other and see if we can apply a Catholic understanding to typically Orthodox beliefs and practices (the Jesus prayer and the uncreated light, early chrismation, corrupted nature vs.original sin, etc.) while inviting them to consider to what degree typically Catholic beliefs and practices can fit in the Orthodox tradition (primacy, the rosary, the Immaculate Conception, Purgatory, etc.).

Irenicist

I agree that we need to express things in different ways, but most of all we must make sure that doctrine remains the same. None of the things you mention in your last paragraph are problems from a Catholic perspective. There are eastern Catholic churches that hold the exact same theology as the Eastern Orthodox, but they are in perfect communion with Rome. They accept the filioque and papal authority as true, even though they do not say the filioque in the creed.

I personally see it as next to impossible, unless God makes a big move, that the Orthodox and the Catholic Churches will join because I think there is a lot of pride. I don’t think that either side is going to budge regarding papal authority. The Orthodox insist that there interpretation of Catholic doctrine is correct and the Catholics can’t understand there own doctrines.