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Theo520
Guest
I’m curious about his story, why did he remain homeless over a period of several years?
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on_the_hill
Guest
I have no perspective as a Catholic. As a person who’s spent a career in public policy, I think the theory has its weak points. If I were designing a crime-prevention program, I’d study the theory as one of many options.
Here’s a solution to homelessness that supposedly someone tried in Philadelphia. They bought homeless people bus tickets to Harrisburg, and thereby reduced Philadelphia’s homeless population. For all I know, that’s an urban legend, but the people who told me believed it to be true.
In other words, sometimes a solution isn’t a solution.
Here’s a solution to homelessness that supposedly someone tried in Philadelphia. They bought homeless people bus tickets to Harrisburg, and thereby reduced Philadelphia’s homeless population. For all I know, that’s an urban legend, but the people who told me believed it to be true.
In other words, sometimes a solution isn’t a solution.
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on_the_hill
Guest
It’s interesting, but humans aren’t elephants. For one thing, we don’t use our noses to suck up water when we bathe. Check out the Twitter account @justsaysinmice (‘just says in mice.’)
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on_the_hill
Guest
A large proportion of homeless people suffer from mental illness, and a large portion of homeless people choose to be homeless.
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Theo520
Guest
That strategy is tried and true, one used by many municipalities over the decades. NY has it in place now but they throw in initial rent payments in your new location.
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on_the_hill
Guest
Subsidizing housing is one thing. Off-loading your problems onto someone else…that’s something else. 
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HopkinsReb
Guest
In their defense, NYC is so dang expensive that that might actually be the most effective way to get a roof over their heads.Subsidizing housing is one thing. Off-loading your problems onto someone else…that’s something else.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
That doesn’t mean we can’t learn something from them – especially when we see the same thing among humans, fatherless boys acting violently.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
There’s something to be said for helping people move to where there is opportunity, though.
Stone County, Arkansas, where I live is economically in the bottom third of the state. Nationwide, Arkansas as a state is about number 48. And a subdivision of subsidized housing was just built here.
Why?
Well, there are a lot of poor people here.
Why are they poor?
Well, because there are no jobs.
So that isn’t helping them – that’s trapping them!
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Peeps
Guest
I was in NYC several times during the 1970s and 1980s–horrible! Scary, so many porn shops on Times Square!
I went back when my daughter moved there and was working with Shakespeare in the Park. What a difference! Times Square was magical–I just stood there and stared at the lights, the activity, the shops, the shows–I felt like Ann Marie on “That Girl!”
I’ve been back several times in the last few years, and I felt that the city (at least the parts that tourists visit) is safer than the city in Illinois where I live. My daughter still lives there, and she’s careful, as anyone should be, but she’s not constantly expecting to be murdered or raped.
Whatever was done to curtail the crime apparently worked, at least in the tourist areas. I’m sure there are areas of NYC that are dangerous, but at least tourists don’t have to be afraid of much–other than the giant rats that are everywhere–disgusting! They don’t show that on TV. I actually think there should be a NYC sports team (I don’t really care what sport) named the NYC Rats.
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Maximus1
Guest
It is important to police a community to impose a standard of lawfulness and respect for the community.
That said, I think a focus on these things are weighted at addressing the sequelae rather than than the symptoms.
In a large city like NYC, you never Eli these things, but you do see increases in the aggregate which I think is akin to sickness.
People’s attitudes and well-being are affected by a wide range of factors. The extent to which they feel a part of, or not a part of a community is complex but some things are definitely a factor.
Their economic participation, the quality of life, including relationships, family and friends.
That said, I think a focus on these things are weighted at addressing the sequelae rather than than the symptoms.
In a large city like NYC, you never Eli these things, but you do see increases in the aggregate which I think is akin to sickness.
People’s attitudes and well-being are affected by a wide range of factors. The extent to which they feel a part of, or not a part of a community is complex but some things are definitely a factor.
Their economic participation, the quality of life, including relationships, family and friends.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Have you asked the residents of that subdivision if they feel trapped? They know the job situation as well as anyone. You want to force them to move out?on_the_hill:
There’s something to be said for helping people move to where there is opportunity, though.
Stone County, Arkansas, where I live is economically in the bottom third of the state. Nationwide, Arkansas as a state is about number 48. And a subdivision of subsidized housing was just built here.
Why?
Well, there are a lot of poor people here.
Why are they poor?
Well, because there are no jobs.
So that isn’t helping them – that’s trapping them!
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Bithynian
Guest
In in his case: child abuse, mental illness and lack of social supports. Effectively, at this stage, if you’re under 65, male and able-bodied (even if severely mentally ill), you won’t receive subsidised government accommodation in Australia due to the chronic lack of affordable housing.
The implication is that these men must find employment and seek private accommodation. But it’s a very vicious cycle: too “healthy” to receive accommodation; no safe space to rest, pray and work over your problems; no friends or family to support you in healthcare goals (e.g. attending appointments, talking about what to do next); no permanent mailing address for employers who immediately discern that you’re homeless and decline to return your calls; continuous nights sleeping on pavement taking an even greater toll on your health (physical and psychological), etc.
In many cases, the policy being embarked upon seems rather perverse, as we’re effectively grinding down men until they’re so unhealthy in mind and body that they have to get supported housing lest they die on the street.
This is being tried to some extent in Australia. The issue here is that our population centres are heavily concentrated in several coastal state and territorial capital cities. Extra-urban towns and cities are already experiencing significant declines with most of their younger generation moving to the aforementioned coastal cities. Most of those towns are reluctant to accommodate the homeless as there’s no simply little existing healthcare and employment infrastructure to support them.
At the same time, I’ve (personally) found that there’s a significant minority of homeless Australians who have wildly unrealistic thoughts about where they should be accommodated. I live in the suburbs, 20 miles west from downtown Sydney where my parish (and its homeless shelter) is located, so it’s about a 1.5 hour drive during rush hour and a 50 minute train commute. I’ve sometimes asked homeless people whether they had considered moving further out west for (somewhat) cheaper rent, but the invariable response is “nah mate, it’s an immigrant dump and there’s no jobs”. I had one bloke whom the government had set up in a nice apartment in northern Sydney, but he said he’s appealing for a nicer apartment with a waterfront view because “he grew up near the water and that’s where I want to be”.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Where do you come up with “force them to move out?”
The housing should have been built in an area with lots of jobs, not in an area with almost no jobs.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
The municipality could have gone two ways.LeafByNiggle:
Where do you come up with “force them to move out?”
The housing should have been built in an area with lots of jobs, not in an area with almost no jobs.
- Build low-cost housing.
- Not build low-cost housing.
By building low-cost housing, people in the area who want to stay in the area can do that. By not building low-cost housing, people in the area who want to stay and cannot find affordable housing are forced to move out of the area, so they are forced to move away.
- Build low-cost housing in a nearby area where there are more jobs.
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Hodos
Guest
Completely agree. More policing lowers crime, not less.
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Hodos
Guest
I agree that a sense of community with one’s neighbors is extremely important to lowering violent crime. This isn’t something that can be legislated, it has to be built through participation is social institutions such as Church, civic organizations, and the like. That said, trust is built between one’s neighbors when people don’t feel that they are constantly victims of things like vandalism and property crime such as theft, burglary, etc. This can be legislated through adequate funding of police forces, and implementing appropriate policies that views property crime as being a high priority for police resources.
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Maximus1
Guest
Property crime has always been a very high priority in a city like NYC. (
My grandfather was a detective in Harlem in the 1930s and 40s, and I am familiar. And the truth is business and affluent become a defacto priority for certain.
The things you mention are all true, but II think it is it is also true that economics play a role as well.
My grandfather was a detective in Harlem in the 1930s and 40s, and I am familiar. And the truth is business and affluent become a defacto priority for certain.
The things you mention are all true, but II think it is it is also true that economics play a role as well.
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Hodos
Guest
Definitely. But I think what we see is that when neighborhoods age, the reduction of property crime, vandalism, and burglary helps to keep those areas economically vibrant. In general, businesses don’t want to invest in areas where property crime is high.
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RCIAGraduate
Guest
Maybe offering one or two years of rent would be better to help them adjust, then it can provide people an opportunity for a new start? Also, to make it less of a dirty trick, why not partner with local non-profits that can receive and support the incoming homeless, still with some exceptions (reconnecting people with family), isn’t it kinda underhanded?
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