What should I do? (a conscience vs church issue)

[Bookcat]

The phrase: “conscience vs Church issue” …is rather in the arena of misnomers.

In terms of a Catholic that is…

 

[tafan]

What step should I take if my conscience doesn’t line up with a couple Church teachings regarding sexuality?

My conscience is well informed. I’ve done a lot of reading and a lot of praying… especially since I got married, but even before then. I grew up reading Mary Beth Bonacci, and have also read Christopher West and TOB multiple times.

I’ve spoken with my priest/spiritual adviser about these issues in great depth and he instructed me to follow my conscience, and reiterated that I do have a well informed conscience. I honestly think there is human error within the Church regarding these issues, though I still believe in the sanctity of the Church as being the one true Bride of Christ.

Sometimes I find myself even entertaining the idea of leaving the Church, only to catch myself and remind myself that of course, I would never do that.

Can I still be a faithful Catholic while following my conscience in regards to the issues I’ve spoken about with my adviser?

Debora, I realize you have done a lot of studying and reading on these matters, so I won’t point you to more information. There does seem to be one thing that is missing in your posts.

The church does a really good job of explaning the reasoning and logic behind its teachings. It doesn’t just say contraception is wrong, but it says why it is wrong, ie how that conclusion was reached.

It seems to me, that if one is going to trust one’s conscience, then one must determine where the church’s reasoning fails. Let me give an (absurd) example which illustrates the point. The church says murder is a sin. It basis this on severl points a) it is included in the Ten Commandments, God’s own law b) It rightly says that God is the creator of all life and we do not have the right to determine when God’s gift of life ends, and c) if murder is morally acceptable, human society would fall apart; as people could not trust they would be left with the most basic of rights intact.

Now, if I am going to say the Church is wrong, murder is not a sin; with a well formed conscience. I have to show where the Church is wrong. Perhaps I am an expert on ancient Hebrew and I find the Church has mis-translated the 5th commandment. Maybe I do not believe that God creates all life, so the second reason is invalid for me. And lastly, I know that society can still function just fine as long as murder is criminally procecuted; human law does not equate to moral law, so in certain conditions murder is okay (as long as one does not get caught).

Now with contraception, you have Paul VI’s Humane Vitae which goes into much detail as to the “why” the church is wrong. So what you need to do is determine, what to Paul VI get wrong. Or if you don’t want to tackle that document, there are many other treatises available as to why it is wrong, the logic behind it.

If you cannot find a flaw in the Church’s logic, then you must ask yourself if your conclusion is simply based on the influence of our corrupt modern culture.

So this is my advice on how to proceed, forget your feelings one way or the other, and turn this into an acedemic excercise; you need to prove to yourself that the logic behind the Church’s teaching is flawed somewhere. If you have not done that, you need to really ask yourself if you truly have a well formed conscience.

This is a tried and true method of coming to an understanding of theological principles. Thomas Aquinas wrote is entire Summa in a similiar method. Asking the question, and stating the reasons why the church is wrong, and then rebutting them. Of course he was trying to prove the church right, you are trying to prove the church wrong. So you need to ask the question, use the church’s arguments as the objections, and then rebut the church’s arguments to arrive at a conclusion.

 

[Bookcat]

cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=109

 

[Joe_5859]

I’m certainly not your spiritual adviser, but have you tried following the Church’s teaching even though you disagree with it?

With Lent upon us tomorrow, perhaps that is something to consider for a Lenten spiritual exercise: try to live out the Church teaching on that matter, pray for understanding, and see if Easter brings you any change in your perspective.

After all, it certainly wouldn’t be wrong not to use contraception, even if you think it is morally just fine. Perhaps putting the Church teaching into practice will make a difference. It’s just 40 days after all.

 

[Debora123]

I’m certainly not your spiritual adviser, but have you tried following the Church’s teaching even though you disagree with it?

With Lent upon us tomorrow, perhaps that is something to consider for a Lenten spiritual exercise: try to live out the Church teaching on that matter, pray for understanding, and see if Easter brings you any change in your perspective.

After all, it certainly wouldn’t be wrong not to use contraception, even if you think it is morally just fine. Perhaps putting the Church teaching into practice will make a difference. It’s just 40 days after all.

Yes, I have tried for the first year of my marriage.

 

[Bookcat]

We need to constantly conform ourselves…our way of thinking…and acting etc to the Gospel…to the Teachings of the Church.

This is where mortification comes in. As Paul tells us.

Lent is an important time for us all to examine ourselves

 

[Joe_5859]

Yes, I have tried for the first year of my marriage.

Do you think it would be worth trying again? Presumably, since it was your first year of marriage that you tried, you have not tried this since beginning the practice of contraception. Maybe things would be different now that you have that experience.

I cannot guarantee that things would be different. I’m just tossing out ideas.

 

[ahs]

Since you have already accepted that the Church is the Teaching Authority established by God, the answer becomes pretty simple, though maybe hard to hear. The Church has taught, Authoritatively, extensively on the issue…and that is what you should form your conscience to.

Antother poster brought up a good point, to make sure your conscience is not being formed by emotions/feelings, but by sound guidance from the Teachings of Christ and His Church.

I’d take things in small steps…first, know what the official Teaching is on the subject and adhere to it. Then, form your conscience upon that Teaching, knowing it is the Teaching of Christ, and then take your time in trying to understand it.

 

[Debora123]

Do you think it would be worth trying again? Presumably, since it was your first year of marriage that you tried, you have not tried this since beginning the practice of contraception. Maybe things would be different now that you have that experience.

I cannot guarantee that things would be different. I’m just tossing out ideas.

It is definitely something to consider. I always said I’d try again if I felt God was calling me to it. I don’t feel God is calling me to it… well, at least I don’t* think *I do. But I will give it some further thought, and you are right, it is lent. Thank you.

 

[Castello]

Ok, so another question that came up from reading some of the links a couple of you have posted for me:

Is “conscience” then basically just the voice of God?

So if someone’s “conscience” is telling them to do something that is not exactly in line with a Church teaching, is it right to say that it’s not actually the person’s conscience at play here, but the person’s “feelings?”

If one’s conscience is telling them something that conflicts with Church teaching, then the conscience is malformed.

To put it very simply, my conscience is well formed if I know I can depend on it to tell me what Church teaching is when I don’t have access to Church documents.

 

[Bookcat]

It is definitely something to consider. I always said I’d try again if I felt God was calling me to it. I don’t feel God is calling me to it…

Note your use of the term “feel” here. It is not so much a matter of what one feels…

I think you have picked up some misconceptions along the way.

Sometimes I may not feel like loving a person…but we are to love one another no matter what we feel…sometimes one may not feel like resisting a temptation to do something gravely sinful but we are to resist and are to not do that thing. I do not need to feel that God is calling me not to sin…I know that I am not to do commit such and such sin via the ways God has given us to know.

God calls all of us …or rather has obliged all to not use contraception.

 

[Bookcat]

cuf.org/faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=109

A good read on conscience

 

[Bookcat]

“A divine inspiration cannot ask us to do something that contradicts what the Word of God teaches and asks of us. This means not the Word of God as compiled by each individual’s fantasy and interpretation, but Holy Scripture as transmitted and explained by the teaching authority of the Church. For example, a divine inspiration cannot ask me to commit acts that the Church considers immoral. In the same way, true inspirations always go in the direction of a spirit of obedience to the Church.”

The great Spiritual Writer Fr. Jacques Philippe In the School of the Holy Spirit, p.47

 

[grandfather]

I have discussed the subject of contraception before, to try to see if I was missing anything important that I didn’t know of already.

But I have never discussed the issue of conscience and following the direction my spiritual adviser gives me, which is what this thread is actually about. I didn’t even mention contraception in my OP, and only brought it up because someone asked. Though I see now that I shouldn’t have.

One of the consequences of sin is that it corrupts us. No matter what the sin is we are corrupted by it. This damage is not limited to one area of our lives. It permeates all of us.

An alchololic may get liver disease and suffer early death, but the damage of being under the influence will not be limited to the physical. The person’s relationships with family, friends, neighbors and coworkers will also suffer. The drunk can not fulfill duties as a parent and the children will suffer.

The alcoholic experiences something called denial. He says he does not have a problem even in the face of what seems to anyone else undeniable evidence. All sin is the same. We tell ourselves that we are ok, just.

I have a friend who was addicted (a slave to) to tobacco. He gave it up with a great struggle. After a month I asked him how it was going. He said the first days and couple of weeks was the most difficult. He said he was amused as he obsevered the contortions and convolutions of his mind. I asked him to explain and he said it was all the reasons he could come up with to light up.

He tried to convince himself that the bad cough he suffered for years was caused by something else. It would be ok to just have one and then he would give it up for good. He told himself that if he relieved the craving he would feel better physically. He told himself that going cold turkey was to difficult and he should have gradually reduced the consumption. He reasoned that maybe medical science was wrong about all the detrimental effects. All of it was so that he could do what he craved doing.

Sin not only damages our souls and others. It damages our intellects.

Assume that the Church’s teaching is correct and contraception is sinful. Suppose your self assuaged conscience is in error. If that is the case and you have chosen to not believe it for whatever reason, then your behavior is sinful. One of the consequences would be the inablility to reason correctly. You tell yourself what you want to hear so you can do what you want to do, engaging in whatever behavior it is, that truly is damaging you and others.

We all do this. I am no different. The only difference is we all have different problem areas where we are broken. When we are broken, as with the alcoholic, things fall apart in our lives, in little ways at first, a fender bender maybe. Not all alcoholics end up in prison for vehicular homicide, or estranged from their families, but they all will suffer from the disease.

Not all couples who contracept will end up divorced, or with breast or ovarian cancer, or committing adultery. Not all couples who cohabitate before marriage end up with failed marriage. It is a matter of percentages though.

If the Church is right and you are wrong the consequences will not be pleasant for you. You could lose your health, marriage or your soul relying on conscience which in this case is your personal ability to reason.

God bless you.

 

[choose_to_love]

@deb: as to what you should do, ask all of us to pray for you & your hubby throughout Lent? Of course I am not trying to make light of such a serious issue, but I for one appreciate that you are coming here openly and honestly, and really opening yourself up for being hurt if anyone responds harshly (not that anyone really has so far, IMO).

Manualman had a good comment on another thread about how NFP is not easy. IIRC, part of your objection to NFP was that in practice it was having a crummy effect on your marriage & intimate relations with your husband. Put another way, if this was just an intellectual objection, you would not be seeking advice on CAF, but as it is, the practice of NFP has real-world consequences. Again IIRC, and I am not trying to put words in your or anyone’s else’s mouth, part of the reason you are unconvinced by the Church’s position is experiential: it didn’t feel good/loving/rewarding/natural etc. I guess my comment then, is that is not supposed to. Now, that hasn’t been my experience, per se, but we had so many other issues regarding sexuality that for us NFP and TOB was freeing.

As it applies to how and when to follow your conscience, then, I guess I am suggesting that lived-out experience is not a substitute for the act of the will that is faith. Per manualman’s comment, fasting is not an easy discipline, until one fights through the intial hunger pangs. Same deal with grandfather’s analogy to the smoker. Please know I am not saying you did not try genuinely and honestly, but if in the back of your mind was always, “I don’t think condoms (contra dominum, BTW) are wrong in the fertile phase/gee this doesn’t feel right”, is not the temptation there to put your conscience in primacy over the teaching of the Church? Put another way, because the primacy of individual conscience is advanced as an always correct proposition by some Catholics, is not it easy to rationalize a choice contrary to what the Church teaches?

Further, I have always understood the proper application of conscience to be to undefined situations, i.e., some types of fertility treatments, which are ever-evolving. The standards are set forth in Donum VItae ( I think), and the CDF/institutional Church does not make specific pronouncements on particular procedures very often (although it has for some). For the undefined procedures, it is up to the couple to discern.

I for one do not assume you have contraceptive motives, as has been insinuated by some responders. I assume you have discerned per the principles of responsible parenthood set forth in HV that you have just reasons.

Finally, I agree with deus lo vult: one can accept for instance transubstantiation, hypostatic union, divine inspiration of Scripture, etc., but contraception is where the Church is wrong?

Anyway, deb, I will be praying for you, hubby, and your marriage. The Body of Christ needs you “all in” in these days, intelligent, compassionate and committed followers of Christ that I believe your posts show you and your husband to be.

 

[tafan]

I have discussed the subject of contraception before, to try to see if I was missing anything important that I didn’t know of already.

But I have never discussed the issue of conscience and following the direction my spiritual adviser gives me, which is what this thread is actually about. I didn’t even mention contraception in my OP, and only brought it up because someone asked. Though I see now that I shouldn’t have.

Yes, but I don’t remember you (or hardly anyone else for that matter) discussing why the church is wrong on this point; from the standpoint of what in the Church’s reasoning is flawed on this point. That is my point relative to this particular thread.

It is one thing to say the Church is wrong, it is quite another to articulate why the Church arrived at this wrong conclusion. To me, one would have to be satisfied with this as part of feeling that one’s conscience is well-formed on the matter.

It seems to me, that in the vast majority of the threads on this forum where someone disagrees with the Church, at best to say why all they do is bring up a reason that is important to them; but it is not part of the Church’s foundation. For example, you may say that contraception is ok because of the over population, but population levels have nothing to do with the Church’s explanation of why contraception is wrong.

 

[Bookcat]

What step should I take if my conscience doesn’t line up with a couple Church teachings regarding sexuality?

What should one do??

What we are all to do.

We need more and more a “renewal of the mind” as Paul and Pope Benedict XVI puts it: here is something for us all to read --especially with Lent beginning tomorrow: read past the first paragraph all the way to the end: vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino_en.html

 

[John21652]

Yes, I have tried for the first year of my marriage.

Keep trying.
Catechism at 1803 - The Virtues:

The moral virtues are acquired by human effort…

Human virtues acquired by education, by deliberate acts and by a perseverance ever-renewed in repeated efforts…

The *fruits *of the Spirit…The tradition of the Church lists twelve of them: “charity, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, generosity, gentleness, faithfulness, modesty, self-control, chastity.”

 

[michelleds]

Deborah, I’ve tried to read all the above posts, and hopefully I’m not just repeating what someone else has already said.

here’s the scenario as you’ve laid it out:
A. you were troubled by a Church teaching
B. you studied, talked, read, and tried to make a well-formed conscience
C. you talked to your priest
D. your priest said you have a well-formed conscience and you should follow your conscience, thereby telling you what you wanted to hear, giving you permission to do what you wanted
E. you came here to ask about it some more

I would suggest to you that your conscience is in fact NOT leading you in opposition to Church teaching. it is your conscience that is subtly continuing to push you and not allow you to just settle into that contrary position. Does this make sense?

My real world, take advice for you is “Fake it until you make it.”

you’re a frequent flyer around here, you’ve likely seen my personal bio in some of the other posts. I can tell you, stepping off the cliff into the faith of “fake it til you make it” is scary, liberating, exhilerating and ultimately awesome.

 

[wild_thing]

What step should I take if my conscience doesn’t line up with a couple Church teachings regarding sexuality?

My conscience is well informed. I’ve done a lot of reading and a lot of praying… especially since I got married, but even before then. I grew up reading Mary Beth Bonacci, and have also read Christopher West and TOB multiple times.

I’ve spoken with my priest/spiritual adviser about these issues in great depth and he instructed me to follow my conscience, and reiterated that I do have a well informed conscience. I honestly think there is human error within the Church regarding these issues, though I still believe in the sanctity of the Church as being the one true Bride of Christ.

Sometimes I find myself even entertaining the idea of leaving the Church, only to catch myself and remind myself that of course, I would never do that.

Can I still be a faithful Catholic while following my conscience in regards to the issues I’ve spoken about with my adviser?

I just wanted to say thank you, Debra, for having the guts to post this question. I have been struggling mightily with the same issues- not so much about contraception, but about sexual intimacy within marriage. Sad to say, more and more I find myself pulling away from the Church. How people have responded to your query was pretty much what I was expecting everybody to say. It pretty much seems like a black and white issue. My particular situation does not seem at all black and white to me and thus I have a hard time with ‘Church’s way or the highway.’ I guess I’ve kind’ve taken the highway.