What should I do about these violations in my parish?

[braeden_mackay]

My parish priest has enlisted my help to set up and use the laptop and projector used during mass to project the Readings, prayers and religious images on a screen mounted in the church. The man who usually does this is going away on vacation for the next 10 weeks.

I always thought there was something “too prostetant” about having a huge screen and projector in the church. Then i read that the Congregation for Divine worship (#73) has banned any kind of projectors even for pious or devout purposes inside the church, especially during mass. What should I do? Should i tell the priest about it? they just paid 500.00 to put a permanent screen in too.

Another violation i noticed in my parish is that the organ is not used except for a rare occasion. Instead a piano, female vocal singers and guitars and violins. Are these instruments allowed? What should i do about this?

My church seems more like a audoritorum rather than a sacred place. There is a performance by the muscians and choir after the mass and everyone claps. It drives me up the wall!!!

What should i do? I need advice before being scolded by the priest. I think that he gives too much authority to parishnoners who are obseesed with “modernizing” and making the liturgy more “cool”. Are these things left up for the bishop to deal with?

Thank you for any help, has anyone else dealt with anything similar? pretty much every parish except the Cathedral does this.

 

[PassionatelyM]

I don’t understand, are you saying that during mass people look up the screen when the reading is going on? I am confused here

 

[andante]

Coming from a Lutheran background that sounds very Protestant to me, especially the piano and the pressure to make liturgy more cool. I understand your frustration!

As I am only joining the Catholic church now, I am not sure where the line is usually drawn and what one should do when you get the feeling it’s being crossed, but maybe you could talk to other people who are actively co-operating with the parish and ask about their opinions, then maybe give feedback to a priest you feel most comfortable talking with. At least in my congregation the priests appreciate feedback, whether it’s positive or negative, it’s what keeps the church alive.

I must point out though that I attended a Catholic Mass on Ash Wednesday in Spain (though it was on the Canary Islands, a rather remote area) where they did use the projector to show the lyrics to the hymns.

 

[z_0101]

1st and always 1st is to approach the Pastor with your concerns in a charitable manner and discuss these concerns with him.

2nd is to contact the local chancery office.

I suspect that when the Bishop arrives for confirmations there may be something said then too.

Do you have an organ player?
Do you have more that ONE person that can play the organ?
We have ONE person that can play the organ in our parish… should we require her to play at every Mass between Saturday evening and Sunday afternoon? One can do only what one can do.
As for the other instruments, I hate the guitar Masses compared to the Choir or just a Chanter and the piano; however, the hymns are taken from the missile and I personally know these people and like the little drummer boy, they offer their time and talent - SO I offer it up, and pay attention to the Mass which is what it’s all about anyway.

There is a performance by the musicians and choir after the mass and everyone claps. It drives me up the wall!!!

I agree that this may be a bit too far; however, so long as the songs are appropriate, the Mass has concluded, and the Host not displayed on the alter… offer it up.

 

[Sirach2]

My parish priest has enlisted my help to set up and use the laptop and projector used during mass to project the Readings, prayers and religious images on a screen mounted in the church. The man who usually does this is going away on vacation for the next 10 weeks.

I always thought there was something “too prostetant” about having a huge screen and projector in the church. Then i read that the Congregation for Divine worship (#73) has banned any kind of projectors even for pious or devout purposes inside the church, especially during mass. What should I do? Should i tell the priest about it? they just paid 500.00 to put a permanent screen in too.

I don’t know which document you are referring to, since it is not in Redemptoris Sacramentum, or the GIRM. Can you provide the reference?

I attended a huge parish in Florida while on vacation and observed a similar process. After the priest finished his homily, the screen retracted overhead. It may have been the sheer size of the church that they decided to project this so everyone could hear and see well. I’m not aware of any rubrics that forbid this. New hymns that were not in the hymnal were also projected, and this expanded the music ministry. Not saying I am in favor or disfavor, but it depends on the licitness and reasons your pastor has decided to do this, which may be perfectly valid. Talk to him first and learn his motives before “scolding” him.

 

[bitznbitez]

Both the adjacent parishes to me have built in screens for the song lyrics as well as the crowd responses etc. The one is definitely modernist but the other in all other respects is very traditional. There is another farther away that I guarantee would never have screens but they still make everyone kneel at an altar rail to receive.

 

[SuperLuigi]

As I am only joining the Catholic church now, I am not sure where the line is usually drawn and what one should do when you get the feeling it’s being crossed, but maybe you could talk to other people who are actively co-operating with the parish and ask about their opinions, then maybe give feedback to a priest you feel most comfortable talking with. At least in my congregation the priests appreciate feedback, whether it’s positive or negative, it’s what keeps the church alive.

My experience with that has been mixed. Sometimes, I think they even have the wrong or an incomplete verse up there, and if they’ve gotten rid of all the books and you don’t know it by heart, well… even

I’ve seen it more in suburban/urban Churches.

Overall, I try to be flexible with some of this stuff because I think a lot of Catholics don’t take the faith seriously and just want some kind of nostalgia of their First Communion or whatever 50 years ago.

I would say some of these are the folks who don’t really show up to mass every week, but if their parish is about to be closed, they’ll be front row center with a icy glare thinking “I was married/confirmed here, and they can’t do this!”

Oh yeah, they probably also were the ones putting pocket change in the collection basket.

It also seems like some folks would have everything in Latin regardless of anything and everything.

We shouldn’t squander the flexibility of the arts to bring people into the True Church.:yup:

But if they want to be hip about it, at least have the presence of mind act responsible.We use projectors and the like often at univeristy, and guess what? The stuff doesn’t always work!

 

[Cricket2]

The infrequent use of the organ is probably unavoidable as very few people know how to play such an instrument. As far as pianos I see no problem. The type of music played is of more concern.

As for the projector, I have been to a couple of parishes where this is done, and I am not for it. I am also against over decoration of the altar. I have seen this carried to such an extreme one has to wonder why people come to church: For a show or to hear the Word of God. Mass is for worshiping God, not a form of entertainment.

Honestly, I simply will not attend Mass where entertaining the parishioners seems to be the primary concern. Folks should be able too attend Mass with absolutely no music or fan fare if need be and not feel “cheated” or “bored.” How can God be boring?

Yes I like GOOD music that is appropriate for worship, but I don’t have to have it to be satisfied with going to Mass. What will people do if we really hit drastically hard times and all we have is a single Priest who is willing to offer the Mass for us without any music, decorations or finery?

I think the projection equipment is an unnecessary distraction. There are better ways to spend the Church’s money.

 

[Book_Worm]

I’m one of those people (and there are many of us) who learn and comprehend better when I read something than when I hear it. I it drives me crazy that our parish does not provide missalettes so I can only listen to the readings and get about 35% of what’s being said. Because of this I recently subscribed to a publication that sends a monthly magazine with all of the readings and some applications as well.

Think of how much money each parish would save by projecting the readings and hymns rather than buying missalettes and expensive hymnals.

 

[YADA]

I attended Mass at St Peter’s Square … the Mass was projected on multiple screens …

The organ holds the highest respect for being the preeminent musical instrument of choice at Mass … however, I do not recall seeing the organ listed in any of the scriptures [Hebrew Texts nor New Testament] as being in use during worship … I have read references to blowing trumpets, cymbals, drums and harps and lyres [which of course would be stringed instruments] … the piano is really a combination - stringed and percussion …

Screens and video are electronic means of printing - like books that are shared … and of course before the printing press there were no individual Missals for people to use during the Mass …

What is really important is the Mass, the participation of the people and the attitude of those in attendance, the music - are the people prayerful, respectful … is the music appropriate and reverential - presented to God’s Glory - pointing the way to our Lord Jesus Christ … It is a communal sacrament - personally I have things I ‘like’ better then others - songs I like and know - others I don’t [like and/or know]… There are readers I prefer and those less so …

I know a parish that uses a screen … it has plusses and minuses …

My two regular parishes do not - *except *once or twice a year when the Archbishop records a message to be played during every Mass across the diocese on a specific Sunday … I guess he feels that he can’t physically be in every parish at every mass - and this allows him to be there - in some manner … three and four Archbishops ago sent taped voice recordings - the last two - videos … and I think all of them travel by car too … instead of walking

Pax Christi

 

[marytk]

I wonder if any objected to printed books rather than hand written ones. (there is a funny youtube video about a monk having a hard time adjusting to a book rather than a scroll. I don’t think of technology as protestant or Catholic. Technology can be used for good or evil. They of course did not use a piano and violins in the early church but the organ wasn’t around either.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Another violation i noticed in my parish is… …female vocal singers

Just out of curiosity, why did you go out of your way to note that the singers are female? Is there something about female singers that is a “violation”?

 

[Edmundus1581]

…
Then i read that the** Congregation for Divine worship (#73) has banned any kind of projectors even for pious or devout purposes inside the church,** especially during mass. What should I do? Should i tell the priest about it? they just paid 500.00 to put a
…

I can imagine that this is causing you some concern, if you fear that the use of a projector in your parish is illicit.

You should note that the decree is from 1958, so is pre-Vatican II. It would take quite some forensic skill to determine whether para #73 is still in effect today.

As Sirach2 noted, the use of projectors is not addressed by Redemptoris Sacramentum, or the GIRM, and as YADA noted, projectors are used at the Vatican.

While individual bishops and priests sometimes break the rules, they do not, in large numbers, continue a practice which is directly banned by Rome, so we should assume that the use of projectors is not illicit. Most bishops would intervene if they saw a clear and widespread violation of a liturgical instruction.

So, set your mind at ease that this is not illicit and you can assist your priest to setup the laptop and projector.

Whether it is desirable is another matter - and for that I agree with the others that there are some problems - particularly with projecting the readings. To have your say on this you need to go through whatever channels there are in your parish for influencing the liturgy. This usually involves joining the liturgy committee and getting involved in the whole gamut of liturgical activities and decision making.

Similar advice applies to most of your other concerns. First of all determine what the current liturgical directives are, both for the universal church and for your diocese. If you find anything that is illicit then you may appeal to your priest, or even bishop. Otherwise it is a matter of taste and you need to work through the slow process of being involved in the parish decision making process.

If you join the liturgy committee you will probably be surprised to find that the priest and committee are more knowledgeable on liturgical regulations and principles than you expect, that there are many people who actually like the things you dislike, and, consequently, you will have to compromise on many things to have your voice on a few.

Finally, if you have a piano, violin, guitar and female singer, then your music is both licit, and, possibly, quite good compared with some alternatives (eg. CD’s, no music at all, rock band…)

 

[sspalding8140]

If I may chip in…your current parish may not suit you at this time, might there be another you may try? Pardon my bold assertion, is it possible you are allowing yourself to be distracted from God by focusing on people and what they are doing. Are you able at this time to leave that to Him, as He is judge? Perhaps another place to worship while asking Him to strengthen your graces and forgiveness? I will pray with you for the Holy Spirit to close your ears to all save His Words and music no matter your whereabouts.

It took me years to find the right place, and only through prayer; real and diligent prayer thanking God for my gifts and begging His mercy. Prayer quiets inside and outside too.

***Eternal God, in whom mercy is endless and the treasury of compassion inexhaustible, look kindly upon us and increase Your mercy in us, that in difficult moments we might not despair nor become despondent, but with great confidence submit ourselves to Your holy will, which is Love and Mercy itself ***

 

[Boy_Wonder]

If you don’t like it, find another parish. I wouldn’t be happy about these things either - although I probably wouldn’t call them “abuses”.

 

[RedSparklyShoes]

We have projectors in our church and I never really gave it a second thought. On one hand, it gives a huge freedom to the music because we don’t have the sheer costs of ordering several hundred hymn books of various descriptions. It also gives us the freedom to add a song that is in none of those books (like we will soon with one I have composed).

I can see how they COULD be used as a distraction, but generally the simply enhance the worship setting.

 

[Cat]

What exactly is “abusive” about something that allows people to see the words to the responses and hymns?

In the OF Mass, the people are supposed to respond out loud, and the projections make it possible for people, especially inquirers and new people, to find the readings and hymns without searching through a hymnal, see them clearly, and read them along with their fellow parishioners. Also, there are elderly people who aren’t able to hold a hymnal or missal, and the overheads are immensely helpful to them, plus they’re easier to see. Anyone of any age who wears reading glasses and forgets them is thankful for overheads.

You have to remember that in the 1950s, when that “rule” was in effect, projectors looked and SOUNDED a lot different than they do today, and they performed different tasks, too. If you are young, you might not know this, but back then, projectors made a lot of noise–a LOT Of noise! click click click! And whooooooosh throughout the movie.

And remember that in the 1950s, there was no OF Mass, only the Latin Mass. Why would a projector have been needed when the people were not expected to respond out loud?

I’m not even sure if there were projectors in the 1950s and 1960s that projected documents on transparencies. I can remember how awed I was when I first saw them as a teenager, so it’s possible that the projectors in the 1950s only showed “movies,” which would of course have been inappropriate in a Mass, especially a Latin Mass!

As for the organ, yes, I agree with other posters. The parish probably doesn’t have an organist, or perhaps only one organists. Organists are becoming rarer in most small cities, although you can still find them in the big metro areas, especially where there are large universities.

I do hope you will not say that the pianist can just play the organ instead of the piano, or I will start another “NO we can’t!” thread. I am a pianist who started taking organ lessons three years ago in response to many threads on this forum saying that Masses should have organists instead of pianists. After three years, I am still unable to play for hymns without practicing a great deal in advance (like several weeks on one hymn). I can play simple Bach preludes and postludes. I have been able to accompany a Low Mass (Latin), but it was very simple with little pedal. I would not be able to accompany a choir anthem or a cantor. The organ is a very difficult instrument to learn to play, and it’s really hard for older pianists to learn the pedals because we have never used our feet to play. And PLEASE don’t even try to suggest that we not use the pedals. Do you want to hear the organ, or do you want to hear the organ played CORRECTLY?

 

[Sirach2]

The organ is a very difficult instrument to learn to play, and it’s really hard for older pianists to learn the pedals because we have never used our feet to play. And PLEASE don’t even try to suggest that we not use the pedals. Do you want to hear the organ, or do you want to hear the organ played CORRECTLY?

You have a good point, Cat. The organists I have seen are ALL elderly! I used to play the organ in my parish until the sheer size of keeping one in my home for practicing, was impractical. It had the full-size foot pedal and took up a** lot of room**. After I got rid of it, it was impractical to spend hours in the [locked] church to practice at odd times, just to be able to play for a liturgy.

We occasionally had some younger pianists play the organ, but it sure sounded hollow without the nice base from the pedals.

 

[Edmundus1581]

…
Another violation i noticed in my parish is that the organ is not used except for a rare occasion. Instead a piano, female vocal singers and guitars and violins. Are these instruments allowed? What should i do about this?
…

I trust that you are not simply harking back to an age when the choir was all-male.

Perhaps it is not the female singers you are objecting to, but rather the song (sic) selection? One of the things I have learned from CAF, which I never picked up in 30 years in the pews, is that there is a difference between “songs” and “hymns”. It’s not just about traditional vs. modern, but rather that composition for the liturgy has particular technical requirements.

In my experience, when the singing is lead by a female vocalist* they often sing modern “songs” which, while they are quite worthy as religious music, are simply not suitable for congregational singing. Men, particularly, struggle with high ranges and musical complexities, whereas they will sing fulsomely with music which is familiar and which has been composed for congregations. (eg. Soul of My Saviour, Praise My Soul the King of Heaven).

You might find this thread helpful:

Men and Liturgical Music

Like I said, the apparently obvious fact that there is a technical difference between a hymn and a song never occurred to me over 30 years, so don’t be surprised if it hasn’t occurred to you or your parish musicians.

• I should add, “accomplished male vocalist”. Basically, anyone who thinks that they are there to perform, rather than lead.

 

[johnmann]

It’s very debatable whether projectors are still banned. Even if you believe it probably isn’t allowed, the ambiguity should be resolved in favor of the one with authority.

Pretty much any Christian-ish music sung by anyone with any instrument is permitted. Again, you may think something isn’t sacred enough but that determination is for the one with the authority.

I do see one violation though. The missal is copyrighted by ICEL. Your parish may be violating copyright law.