What should I expect at a Mormon church service?

[dianaiad]

You do realize that you have a habit of taking anything people say and turning it to “Mormon persecution”, right? I never said any such thing. I said, people were looting stores for food, which is an indication that there wasn’t much food storage or sharing of said food storage.

No, Rebecca, you didn’t.

We were talking specifically about Mormons, food storage and what it was for; I was referring to the year’s supply of food, and that mostly it was 'one week’s supply for 52 families, not one year’s supply for one."

To this you responded:
"Rebecca:

Any food stored in a house that needed it in New Orleans, was flooded. The food was destroyed.

I answered with this, referring still only to those who had the year’s supply of food (Mormons):

Diana:

But not all the houses were flooded…and those who had it shared with those who did not. Which was the point.

To this you wrote the following:

Rebecca:

Looting grocery stores for food and diapers is not really an indicator of what you are describing. You sound like you are spreading faith promoting rumors to me.

I was specifically talking about Mormons and their food supplies…and you knew that when you made that comment regarding ‘faith promoting rumors’ . Given that I was talking only about Mormons and their food stores, (and so were you) the meaning was pretty obvious. As I wrote later, I hope that your accusation was inadvertent, but you did accuse me of lying there. Now you are attempting to wiggle out of it.

PEOPLE does include more than Mormons. I hope you understand this concept.

Sure I do. Too bad you didn’t use the word “people.” It was a direct accusation of the folks we were discussing…Mormons and their year’s supply. I don’t see any other way to read it. I can’t read minds, just words.

Faith promoting stories you have heard. All well and good. I’m glad you like them. And once again, you have this imaginary persecution thing going.

You are again accusing me of lying. “Faith promoting stories?” What, like the New York Times, the government, public records and the Red Cross are in the habit of handing out ‘faith promoting stories’ to make Mormons feel good about themselves?

What would be so hard about finding out that the Mormons actually did what is claimed for them in Katrina, and during the tsunami, and in other natural and man-made disasters? Is your disbelief in the doctrine dependent upon our not being helpful?

So, 14 semis is a single Mormon’s food storage? I think perhaps you are tying two things together that are not related. We were talking about food storage, not disaster relief coming from the outside.

Yes I have heard this, and yes it is a faith promoting rumor. The first to arrive were the Red Cross.

OUTSIDE??? Who the flip do you think DONATED the stuff in those semis? …and who do you think took care of their neighbors until further help could reach them? And please note; I didn’t claim that we were the first. I DID claim that we were among the first.

This does not mean I believe Mormon efforts were not worthwhile.

Right. “Faith promoting rumor?”

Just, this Mormon drive to compete for First Place is puzzling.

I didn’t say 'first." I said “among the first.”

And no, I never said Mormons were looting. That is entirely your imagination.

Sorry, but you did…and quite frankly, I’m not certain that you didn’t intend to. "Faith promoting rumors,’ indeed.

I read what I write. Do you stop to think that perhaps you don’t need to read everything as though I am outside your door with a knife?

Oh, I don’t read your stuff as if you were outside my door with a knife. I read it as if I knew that you would accuse me of ‘spreading faith promoting stories’ if I said anything positive about Mormonism.

 

[RebeccaJ]

No, Rebecca, you didn’t.

We were talking specifically about Mormons, food storage and what it was for; I was referring to the year’s supply of food, and that mostly it was 'one week’s supply for 52 families, not one year’s supply for one."

To this you responded:

I answered with this, referring still only to those who had the year’s supply of food (Mormons):

To this you wrote the following:

I was specifically talking about Mormons and their food supplies…and you knew that when you made that comment regarding ‘faith promoting rumors’ . Given that I was talking only about Mormons and their food stores, (and so were you) the meaning was pretty obvious. As I wrote later, I hope that your accusation was inadvertent, but you did accuse me of lying there. Now you are attempting to wiggle out of it.

Sure I do. Too bad you didn’t use the word “people.” It was a direct accusation of the folks we were discussing…Mormons and their year’s supply. I don’t see any other way to read it. I can’t read minds, just words.

You are just being silly now. Fine. If you want to believe that I believe that Mormons looted NO, go right ahead. Makes no difference to me.

You are again accusing me of lying. “Faith promoting stories?” What, like the New York Times, the government, public records and the Red Cross are in the habit of handing out ‘faith promoting stories’ to make Mormons feel good about themselves?

I didn’t say you lied. Faith promoting rumors are rumors that people believe as truth. Just because you believe them, doesn’t mean that I do.

What would be so hard about finding out that the Mormons actually did what is claimed for them in Katrina, and during the tsunami, and in other natural and man-made disasters? Is your disbelief in the doctrine dependent upon our not being helpful?

You are being silly again. Making stuff up, about me, which seems to be a pattern here. Tell me more about myself, I am finding it fascinating. Perhaps I too, was never Mormon. Perhaps, I am making everything up and you are sooo gullible as to believe it all.

I believe you have lost the capability to determine reality from make believe Mormon land. That is my observation about you.

OUTSIDE??? Who the flip do you think DONATED the stuff in those semis? …and who do you think took care of their neighbors until further help could reach them? And please note; I didn’t claim that we were the first. I DID claim that we were among the first.

Fine, Be first with semis that rolled out of Church store houses in the south east US and SLC. If you believe that NO encompasses all of the south east US and SLC, that is also fine with me, but don’t expect me to acknowledge that such a belief has any validity to it.

And don’t expect that I don’t know the difference between individual food storage and Church storehouse supplies. Do you?

Oh, I don’t read your stuff as if you were outside my door with a knife. I read it as if I knew that you would accuse me of ‘spreading faith promoting stories’ if I said anything positive about Mormonism.

I see, providing a different POV is being negative. I’m sorry, I’m not Mormon, I have no need to justify that cult by showing the good they do. And I did say, perhaps you are feeling too persecuted to notice, that I meant nothing of the sort.

I think we’re done here. Anything I say you feel the need to twist to me, disparaging Mormonism. If that is how you must live your life to keep safely in the walls of that nonsense, go for it, but I’m not going to help you live your illusion.

 

[dianaiad]

You are just being silly now. Fine. If you want to believe that I believe that Mormons looted NO, go right ahead. Makes no difference to me.

I don’t want to believe it, no. But that’s what you SAID, Rebecca. Sorry.

I didn’t say you lied. Faith promoting rumors are rumors that people believe as truth. Just because you believe them, doesn’t mean that I do.

you accused me of ‘spreading’ them. That is accusing me of lying…or else pure stupidity. Rebecca, do you honestly think that I would come onto a forum like THIS and make claims about checkable facts that I couldn’t back up? I’ve been around too long. If I say that something happened, you will know that I have researched it, confirmed it and made very certain that it did indeed happen.

If I claim that people shared their year’s supply of food with their neighbors during Katrina, then it’s because I checked the news; not just the Deseret News, but the local papers and public records. If I claim that 14 semi’s full of food and supplies were waiting before katrina even struck the coast, then it’s because I checked the papers, public records and reports of chariable giving during that time.

I don’t do this because I’m such a truthful person (though I’m working on that part.) I do it for a very practical reason; when you lie in words, words may be forgotten and forgiven; human memory is fallible. When you lie in a letter, or on paper, papers and books may be destroyed, or lost. But when you lie on the internet?

It gets archived…and people can bring it up at the click of a key. A lie on the internet will haunt you for, quite literally, decades. So I am very, very careful with fact checking before I make a claim.

Have I been mistaken? Often. When I am, I admit it.

The problem with your post is this: you may not have intended to accuse Mormons of looting. but that’s how your post read. Sorry, Rebecca.

You are being silly again. Making stuff up, about me, which seems to be a pattern here. Tell me more about myself, I am finding it fascinating. Perhaps I too, was never Mormon. Perhaps, I am making everything up and you are sooo gullible as to believe it all.

I believe you have lost the capability to determine reality from make believe Mormon land. That is my observation about you.

Rebecca, I haven’t made up a thing about you. I simply read your posts and reacted to what I read.

Fine, Be first with semis that rolled out of Church store houses in the south east US and SLC. If you believe that NO encompasses all of the south east US and SLC, that is also fine with me, but don’t expect me to acknowledge that such a belief has any validity to it.

Rebecca, I didn’t claim that those semis weren’t the ‘first to roll out.’ That’s YOUR add on. My claim was that they were among the first to arrive in New Orleans; before the hurricane struck, and were refused entrance by FEMA.

As well, this isn’t about whether you think my beliefs are true, Rebecca. I haven’t ever once insisted that you “acknowledge that such a belief has any validity to it.” I’ve never once insisted that my beliefs are “true” and that you all have to believe them. I have said that I believe them. My presence here on this forum was a direct response to people here who were attacking my beliefs and getting those beliefs WRONG.

I frankly don’t give a flying goose whether you believe as I do. However, if you are going to criticize us for our beliefs and what we do, you should know what those beliefs and actions actually are, not some strawman construction of what you think they are. You used to be LDS. You have a better grasp than most of what our doctrine is, but here you are, wanting to believe that we are selfish, or at least attempting to discount the very real contributions the church makes to the community and in disaster relief…and why? The Salvation Army does a huge amount of relief work, yet I’m sure you don’t feel the need to disparage that in order to argue against doctrine, do you?

And don’t expect that I don’t know the difference between individual food storage and Church storehouse supplies. Do you?

yes. Do you know the difference between accusing someone of ‘spreading faith promoting stories’ and of “lying?”

Other than the number of words used?

Well, neither do I, because the first is a euphemism for the second.

I see, providing a different POV is being negative. I’m sorry, I’m not Mormon, I have no need to justify that cult by showing the good they do. And I did say, perhaps you are feeling too persecuted to notice, that I meant nothing of the sort.

I think we’re done here. Anything I say you feel the need to twist to me, disparaging Mormonism. If that is how you must live your life to keep safely in the walls of that nonsense, go for it, but I’m not going to help you live your illusion.

Yes, you did say you meant nothing of the sort, but it was buried in so many justifications for your own behavior and criticisms of the LDS church and beliefs that it sorta slipped right through.

There is this thing that drives me nuts; I know you’ve dealt with it; this attitude that saying something hurtful, critical, negative or cutting, and then saying “can’t you take a joke?”, ‘I didn’t mean it" or “that’s not what I said” gives one a sort of King’s X or pass on the saying of it. Then if the person being insulted reacts negatively, the insulter gets defensive and wounded, claiming that the insultee is over-reacting, twisting words…"I was just playin’!"

 

[RebeccaJ]

I don’t want to believe it, no. But that’s what you SAID, Rebecca. Sorry.

That is what you read.

you accused me of ‘spreading’ them. That is accusing me of lying…or else pure stupidity.

I believe neither about you. Again, your imagination has got you going.

To be clear, mormon faith promoting rumors are spread by people who believe them as truth. I neither believe people are lying or do I believe they are stupid. It just is. If you feel you are lying or are stupid, it is not because of me.

Rebecca, do you honestly think that I would come onto a forum like THIS and make claims about checkable facts that I couldn’t back up? I’ve been around too long.

Honestly, yes, you did. I have yet to see anything that says Mormons were saved by their food storage and shared that food storage with others.

What you keep going off to is general disaster relief coming from bishops food stores. Which I am sure you are quite aware are not the food storage you were talking about to begin with.

If I say that something happened, you will know that I have researched it, confirmed it and made very certain that it did indeed happen.

lol. ok. Show me the money.

If I claim that people shared their year’s supply of food with their neighbors during Katrina, then it’s because I checked the news; not just the Deseret News, but the local papers and public records.

Waiting…

[qote] If I claim that 14 semi’s full of food and supplies were waiting before katrina even struck the coast, then it’s because I checked the papers, public records and reports of chariable giving during that time.

Yes, I read these as well. This is not food storage. So I have no idea why you keep going on about it.

I don’t do this because I’m such a truthful person (though I’m working on that part.) I do it for a very practical reason; when you lie in words, words may be forgotten and forgiven; human memory is fallible. When you lie in a letter, or on paper, papers and books may be destroyed, or lost. But when you lie on the internet?

It gets archived…and people can bring it up at the click of a key. A lie on the internet will haunt you for, quite literally, decades. So I am very, very careful with fact checking before I make a claim.

Thanks for sharing your personal internet philosophy.

Have I been mistaken? Often. When I am, I admit it.

And? I am not your confessor, and frankly, have no interest in that role.

The problem with your post is this: you may not have intended to accuse Mormons of looting. but that’s how your post read. Sorry, Rebecca.

It read that way because that is how you need to read it. If I were a TBM, certainly, you would not have read it that way at all.

Rebecca, I haven’t made up a thing about you. I simply read your posts and reacted to what I read.

Whatever, you continually make up things about people, not just me. Perhaps you are a telepath or something and have amazing powers to instantly know complete internet strangers. Haven’t seen that its working so well though, so maybe not.

Rebecca, I didn’t claim that those semis weren’t the ‘first to roll out.’ That’s YOUR add on. My claim was that they were among the first to arrive in New Orleans; before the hurricane struck, and were refused entrance by FEMA.

Still haven’t seen this as proven.

As well, this isn’t about whether you think my beliefs are true, Rebecca. I haven’t ever once insisted that you “acknowledge that such a belief has any validity to it.” I’ve never once insisted that my beliefs are “true” and that you all have to believe them. I have said that I believe them. My presence here on this forum was a direct response to people here who were attacking my beliefs and getting those beliefs WRONG.

Whereby you make stuff up.

I frankly don’t give a flying goose whether you believe as I do. However, if you are going to criticize us for our beliefs and what we do, you should know what those beliefs and actions actually are, not some strawman construction of what you think they are. You used to be LDS. You have a better grasp than most of what our doctrine is, but here you are, wanting to believe that we are selfish, or at least attempting to discount the very real contributions the church makes to the community and in disaster relief…and why? The Salvation Army does a huge amount of relief work, yet I’m sure you don’t feel the need to disparage that in order to argue against doctrine, do you?

Hi, we were talking about disaster relief. What all does this have to do with religious belief. What I am saying, is that you expect me to view outside resources coming into NO as personal food storage. This is what I won’t believe, because I know its BS.

Yes, you did say you meant nothing of the sort, but it was buried in so many justifications for your own behavior and criticisms of the LDS church and beliefs that it sorta slipped right through.

Perhaps I’ll be clearer, and then you can tell me how persecuted you are, like every other mormon who comes around here does.

There is this thing that drives me nuts; I know you’ve dealt with it; this attitude that saying something hurtful, critical, negative or cutting, and then saying “can’t you take a joke?”, ‘I didn’t mean it" or “that’s not what I said” gives one a sort of King’s X or pass on the saying of it. Then if the person being insulted reacts negatively, the insulter gets defensive and wounded, claiming that the insultee is over-reacting, twisting words…"I was just playin’!"

This is not something I ever said, or am doing. I’m not playing. I’m not joking. I am not even defensive. Just watching the usual mormon go in circles dialog.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Is it just me, or should Zerinus have jumped in by now?

 

[zerinus]

Is it just me, or should Zerinus have jumped in by now?

I have lost track of this thread, and have not been following it through, as I don’t have the time to read everything. If there is something specific you want me to address, you can point me to it, and will have a look.

zerinus

 

[Catholic_Dude]

I have lost track of this thread, and have not been following it through, as I don’t have the time to read everything. If there is something specific you want me to address, you can point me to it, and will have a look.

zerinus

It was just odd that you werent posting more, these are they types of threads that get you really going.

 

[zerinus]

It was just odd that you werent posting more, these are they types of threads that get you really going.

It does take time you know, to read through all that stuff, and reply to it all, especially if your are active on other boards as well. Sometimes also a thread takes a course that makes me lose interest in it; this is one of those.

zerinus

 

[dianaiad]

That is what you read.

Yep…and it was exegesis, not eisegesis.

I believe neither about you. (that I am lying or stupid…) Again, your imagination has got you going.

To be clear, mormon faith promoting rumors are spread by people who believe them as truth. I neither believe people are lying or do I believe they are stupid. It just is. If you feel you are lying or are stupid, it is not because of me.

Ok, so it’s not "lying,’ but it is ‘stupid…’ that is, stupid enough to make claims that can be easily checked and disproven if they are false.

Honestly, yes, you did. I have yet to see anything that says Mormons were saved by their food storage and shared that food storage with others.

EXCUSE ME? Where did I claim that “Mormons were saved by their food storage and shared that food storage with others?”

I WROTE that it looks like the idea of a year’s supply of food is more about a week’s supply for 52 families than it is about a year’s supply for one, and that the folks in New Orleans who had such food storage shared it with their neighbors. As well, I wrote that the church jumped right in there with a great deal of disaster relief supplies to people OTHER than Mormons–which was evidence that we consider our food storage and welfare system to be for more than just the individual Mormons involved; we aid as many of those who need it, regardless of denomination and beliefs, as we can. The whole thing was to illustrate that one point; we share.

I did not say anything about being ‘saved.’ I did say that Mormons with food storage shared it with those who didn’t have any food. That happens to be true.

I’m sorry, Rebecca, but it is.

What you keep going off to is general disaster relief coming from bishops food stores. Which I am sure you are quite aware are not the food storage you were talking about to begin with.

You mean when you said that looting food from supermarkets isn’t the same as sharing food storage?

lol. ok. Show me the money.

Waiting…

That’s just plain rude, Rebecca.

If I claim that 14 semi’s full of food and supplies were waiting before katrina even struck the coast, then it’s because I checked the papers, public records and reports of chariable giving during that time.

I see. If you have 'already read those" (and misrepresented them as well, I see–claiming that semi’s that were actually IN NEW ORLEANS before Katrina hit were just 'rolling out of the Bishop’s warehouse in SLC" after the storm was over) then why are you asking about it?

Besides, it’s about both:here is a breakdown of what the church and its members provided during Katrina and Rita;

*   200 semi-trailer loads of emergency supplies
* 4,900,000 pounds of food and water
* 1,000,000 hygiene kits
* 250,000 school kits
* 60,000 cleaning kits
* 70,000 kitchen kits
* 40,000 bedroom linen sets
* 336,000 hours of volunteer service

Please note: the 336,000 hours of emergency service were given by individual church members. All the hygiene kits (distributed by the Red Cross, mostly) school kits, cleaning kits, kitchen kits and clean linen kits were put together by individual members; the church paid for some of the supplies that went into them, but individual members donated a great many of them. I know; some of those came from me and other people in my ward.

The supplies and individual hour donations were made by folks who LIVED there as well as by folks who drove hundreds of miles to volunteer.

That Mormons helped Katrina victims with their own food storage items is documented in newspapers all over the nation in 2005; a few examples: “Mormons have done it again…” Northwest Florida Daily News. " …faith, and they will come: Religious folk step forward" Washington Times. “LDS service to reach millions” Atlanta Journal. “Katrina Relief |Local Efforts to help” (I like this one…where it reported how many 'homeowners requested those ‘stormon Mormons" work on their homes’) Charlotte Observer…“Mormon’s Charitable Acts Speak for Themselves” Kennebec Journal.

I would ask you to note that not one single article above comes from the Deseret News

continued…

 

[dianaiad]

Thanks for sharing your personal internet philosophy.

You are quite welcome. It’s a good philosophy to have, and when followed, saves a lot of grief.

And? I am not your confessor, and frankly, have no interest in that role.

And I’m attempting to give you a good example to follow.

It read that way because that is how you need to read it. If I were a TBM, certainly, you would not have read it that way at all.

I would have read it that way if you were a TBM. I admit that I would have asked if you really meant to say it (wait, didn’t I do that with you, too?) but it read how it read, Rebecca.

Whatever, you continually make up things about people, not just me. Perhaps you are a telepath or something and have amazing powers to instantly know complete internet strangers. Haven’t seen that its working so well though, so maybe not.

Care to give me an example? What have I ‘made up’ about you? Nothing.

Hi, we were talking about disaster relief. What all does this have to do with religious belief. What I am saying, is that you expect me to view outside resources coming into NO as personal food storage. This is what I won’t believe, because I know its BS.

Ok, I have shown you where this happened. If you still think that it is BS, the ball is in your court; how do you know that it is BS?

You will have to ignore public records, newspaper accounts, eyewitness accounts, and videos of the Mormons doing precisely this as they brought their personal food storage to the local meeting houses to share with the refugees who stayed there.

As for what it has to do with religious belief? Excuse me, but you are the one who, said that you weren’t going to “acknowledge that such a belief has any validity to it.” I simply let you know that I didn’t expect that of you. So…I didn’t bring beliefs into it. You did.

Perhaps I’ll be clearer, (about her claim that she ‘meant nothing of the sort’ regarding what looked to be an accusation that Mormons were looting) and then you can tell me how persecuted you are, like every other mormon who comes around here does.

If you were clearer, the situation wouldn’t have come up, Rebecca. A simple “I don’t see where you get that…but oops, I’m sorry. That’s not what I meant to say” would have diffused the whole thing.

This is not something I ever said, or am doing. I’m not playing. I’m not joking. I am not even defensive. Just watching the usual mormon go in circles dialog.

Rebecca, this is already too long. Just…go back to those posts. Read them as if you were me. Read my statement about food storage and Mormons helping during Katrina…then read your comment, in direct answer to that, that looting grocery stores isn’t sharing food storage, and then I think you will see that, oops, you goofed.

Just admit it, get over it, and get on with life. I’d say 'never mind, I forgive you" and leave it at that, but I think doing so would make you throw something. So I’ll just say 'never mind."

Diana

 

[RebeccaJ]

EXCUSE ME? Where did I claim that “Mormons were saved by their food storage and shared that food storage with others?”

Implied, wouldn’t you say, in your claim that your prophet telling you to have food storage is actually a prophecy? Aren’t prophecies meant to warn people, thus, saving them.

I WROTE that it looks like the idea of a year’s supply of food is more about a week’s supply for 52 families than it is about a year’s supply for one, and that the folks in New Orleans who had such food storage shared it with their neighbors.

Which, you still haven’t shown is the case.

As well, I wrote that the church jumped right in there with a great deal of disaster relief supplies to people OTHER than Mormons–which was evidence that we consider our food storage and welfare system to be for more than just the individual Mormons involved; we aid as many of those who need it, regardless of denomination and beliefs, as we can. The whole thing was to illustrate that one point; we share.

Oh, I see the point. Not to support your claim of “out of debt and a year supply of food” is prophecy. Rather, a tangent. That has nothing to do with your claim.

I did not say anything about being ‘saved.’ I did say that Mormons with food storage shared it with those who didn’t have any food. That happens to be true.

You posted an article about LDS relief services, which is not the food storage you claimed as a prophecy. That is my point.

You mean when you said that looting food from supermarkets isn’t the same as sharing food storage?

I have no idea what you are talking about now.

That’s just plain rude, Rebecca.

Still waiting.

I see. If you have 'already read those" (and misrepresented them as well, I see–claiming that semi’s that were actually IN NEW ORLEANS before Katrina hit were just 'rolling out of the Bishop’s warehouse in SLC" after the storm was over) then why are you asking about it?

Misrepresent what?

Besides, it’s about both:here is a breakdown of what the church and its members provided during Katrina and Rita;

*   200 semi-trailer loads of emergency supplies
* 4,900,000 pounds of food and water
* 1,000,000 hygiene kits
* 250,000 school kits
* 60,000 cleaning kits
* 70,000 kitchen kits
* 40,000 bedroom linen sets
* 336,000 hours of volunteer service

Please note: the 336,000 hours of emergency service were given by individual church members. All the hygiene kits (distributed by the Red Cross, mostly) school kits, cleaning kits, kitchen kits and clean linen kits were put together by individual members; the church paid for some of the supplies that went into them, but individual members donated a great many of them. I know; some of those came from me and other people in my ward.

The supplies and individual hour donations were made by folks who LIVED there as well as by folks who drove hundreds of miles to volunteer.

Still, nothing to do with your original claim that food storage was a prophecy, and that prophecy was beneficial during the Katrina disaster.

That Mormons helped Katrina victims with their own food storage items is documented in newspapers all over the nation in 2005; a few examples: “Mormons have done it again…” Northwest Florida Daily News. " …faith, and they will come: Religious folk step forward" Washington Times. “LDS service to reach millions” Atlanta Journal. “Katrina Relief |Local Efforts to help” (I like this one…where it reported how many 'homeowners requested those ‘stormon Mormons" work on their homes’) Charlotte Observer…“Mormon’s Charitable Acts Speak for Themselves” Kennebec Journal.

AGAIN. LDS SERVICE is not personal food storage. Working on homes is not food storage.

Why do you keep wandering off the subject?

I would ask you to note that not one single article above comes from the Deseret News

continued…

noted.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I would have read it that way if you were a TBM. I admit that I would have asked if you really meant to say it (wait, didn’t I do that with you, too?) but it read how it read, Rebecca.

No. I get that is how you read it. What I have said over and over is that is not what I said. You keep insisting I did. I already said, fine, believe it if you like. So be it.

appened. If you still think that it is BS, the ball is in your court; how do you know that it is BS?

FOOD STORAGE
LDS RELIEF SERVICES
BISHOP’S STORE HOUSES

You seem to confuse them altogether as the instruction from your so-called prophet, as “a years supply of food”.

I recall there is a difference. Maybe it’s you who are claiming to be Mormon but really, aren’t.

As for what it has to do with religious belief? Excuse me, but you are the one who, said that you weren’t going to “acknowledge that such a belief has any validity to it.” I simply let you know that I didn’t expect that of you. So…I didn’t bring beliefs into it. You did.

My use of the word “belief” had nothing to do with religious belief.

If you were clearer, the situation wouldn’t have come up, Rebecca. A simple “I don’t see where you get that…but oops, I’m sorry. That’s not what I meant to say” would have diffused the whole thing.

I believe that is what I did.

Rebecca, this is already too long. Just…go back to those posts. Read them as if you were me.

It is not possible for me to read things as you do.

Read my statement about food storage and Mormons helping during Katrina…then read your comment, in direct answer to that, that looting grocery stores isn’t sharing food storage, and then I think you will see that, oops, you goofed.

Oh, I see. Oops, Diana goofed. She thinks I believe mormons loot. I’ll be sure to advise my entire mormon family that they should stop looting. Starting with my parents.

Just admit it, get over it, and get on with life. I’d say 'never mind, I forgive you" and leave it at that, but I think doing so would make you throw something. So I’ll just say 'never mind."

Freaking hell Diana. I SAID THIS WAS OVER LONG AGO.

 

[dianaiad]

Implied, wouldn’t you say, in your claim that your prophet telling you to have food storage is actually a prophecy? Aren’t prophecies meant to warn people, thus, saving them.

Rebecca, this conversation has completely derailed.

You are making assumptions about what is said that are not supported by the text, and refusing to acknowledge that what is said in the text was actually, y’know, written.

but I’ll tell you what: you tell me what your definition of "saved’ is, and if helping people make it through days or weeks of hardship with a little less hardship, or helping them rebuild, is not ‘being saved’ according to that definition, so be it.

We have never claimed that a year’s supply of food is going to get you to heaven. That’s not what it is for.We are a very practical people, and live according to practical guidelines. Things like a year’s supply of food, or the Word of Wisdom, are about making THIS life better, so that we can, having taken care of the practical stuff, concentrate on the spiritual. People who are hungry or homeless don’t really have the ability to concentrate on reading scripture, y’know?

Yes, yes, I know…I’ve been told very often that we should take no note of the world, but concentrate on God. Well…yeah. We should. But when we do that, and God tells us to gather a years’ supply of food in case of emergencies (ours or others) and to take care of our bodies, then perhaps we should pay attention?

Just a thought. But you go ahead and eisegete all you want to. I’m done. I can’t keep up with the twists and turns.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Rebecca, this conversation has completely derailed.

You are making assumptions about what is said that are not supported by the text, and refusing to acknowledge that what is said in the text was actually, y’know, written.

but I’ll tell you what: you tell me what your definition of "saved’ is, and if helping people make it through days or weeks of hardship with a little less hardship, or helping them rebuild, is not ‘being saved’ according to that definition, so be it.

That’s what i’m saying. :banghead:

Yet, you said, this is not what you are saying. But now you are saying that this is what you are saying.

We have never claimed that a year’s supply of food is going to get you to heaven. That’s not what it is for.We are a very practical people, and live according to practical guidelines.

Hi, I was raised in a BIC house. I ground wheat. I hauled up sugar and flour out my parent’s basement. I know what food storage is.

Things like a year’s supply of food, or the Word of Wisdom, are about making THIS life better, so that we can, having taken care of the practical stuff, concentrate on the spiritual. People who are hungry or homeless don’t really have the ability to concentrate on reading scripture, y’know?

You are talking to a Catholic. I know what works of mercy are for.

Yes, yes, I know…I’ve been told very often that we should take no note of the world, but concentrate on God. Well…yeah. We should. But when we do that, and God tells us to gather a years’ supply of food in case of emergencies (ours or others) and to take care of our bodies, then perhaps we should pay attention?

Well, you equate your teachings with God, I don’t. But I am in agreement that we should not ignore those in need.

Just a thought. But you go ahead and eisegete all you want to. I’m done. I can’t keep up with the twists and turns.

And you go ahead and avoid what you have claimed compared to what you are able to produce to support that claim. And continue to pontificate all you want.

 

[PJM]

Actually, the LDS do use a version of the KJV, although they consider it flawed and have demoted its importance.

Thank you!

But it is a “reference book” ONLY, to disprove what we believe and support their errant views.

It certainly is NOT the “inspired word of God.”

They do not believe in the existance of God, nor do they accept the Divinely inspiried Word of God.

Nor do they accept that Jesus is God!

Strangely, they do accept the Book of Mormon as being inspired, exactly by who, is the open question.

 

[dianaiad]

Thank you!

But it is a “reference book” ONLY, to disprove what we believe and support their errant views.

It certainly is NOT the “inspired word of God.”

They do not believe in the existance of God, nor do they accept the Divinely inspiried Word of God.

Nor do they accept that Jesus is God!

Strangely, they do accept the Book of Mormon as being inspired, exactly by who, is the open question.

PMJ…

We have 13 Articles of Faith, the 8th one of which reads:
“We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God”.

On the title page of the Book of Mormon, we read the following:

And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ.

What does this mean? It means that we believe that the bible (we use the KJV in English…but are quite willing to use other translations as well) and the Book of Mormon are equal.

The Book of Mormon is to the Bible what the Book of Matthew is to the book of Acts. No more, no less.

Aren’t you getting tired of making statements about Mormonism that are this completely off base?

 

[PJM]

Yep…and it was exegesis, not eisegesis.

Ok, so it’s not "lying,’ but it is ‘stupid…’ that is, stupid enough to make claims that can be easily checked and disproven if they are false.

…

My dear friend in Christ,

We represent Our Blessed Lord’s Teachings, and more speciffically, what we RCC’s belief and PRACTICE:blush:

Where is the Chrsitian charity, the paiteint endurence, the love of neighbor.

May I humbly and respectfully suggest, for the sake of Kesus, that we have a serious Moral obligation, to do everyting in love, with Christian Charity:thumbsup:

Please, no name calling! WWJD? Think about it, pray about it and then:23 "And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. 24 For whoever would save his life will lose it; and whoever loses his life for my sake, he will save it. 25 For what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses or forfeits himself?"*
Luke Chapter 9…

and 1 Cor. Chapter 13…
"1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, * but have not love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; 5* it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. 7* Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; 10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. 13 So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love"/B]**

 

[dianaiad]

My dear friend in Christ,

We represent Our Blessed Lord’s Teachings, and more speciffically, what we RCC’s belief and PRACTICE:blush:

Where is the Chrsitian charity, the paiteint endurence, the love of neighbor.

I dunno. Where was it? Please note; I wasn’t calling HER stupid.

23 "And he said to all, “If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. 24* For whoever would save his life will lose it; and whoever loses his life for my sake, he will save it. 25 For what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses or forfeits himself?”

Luke Chapter 9…

and 1 Cor. Chapter 13…
"1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, * but have not love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful; 5* it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6 it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right. 7* Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; 10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood. 13 So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love"/B]**

PMJ, what exactly was it that you think you were reading?

 

[PJM]

PMJ…

We have 13 Articles of Faith, the 8th one of which reads:
"We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God".

Wow, 13 Articles of Faith!" That certainly makes adherence to it much simpler. I wish Christ Jesus, our Lord and Savior (God to us) had thought of it first

Actually, I think you have it alsmost right. You say “God” but do you believe (please answer this) that God is all everything Good?
All Wise, All Knowing, All Powerful, and does your “God” have three seperate, yet unable to be seperated Divine Natures, in One Person?

And who judges mistakes? Me. Smith, you, the book of Mormon, or God as I have defined Him? hmmmmm.

What does this mean? It means that we believe that the bible (we use the KJV in English…but are quite willing to use other translations as well) and the Book of Mormon are equal.{/QUOTE]

My dear friend, if you really allow a book written by William Smith, written about 150 years ago, to be on par with anyones bible, that dates back about 1,700 years. Your being greatly short changed!

The Book of Mormon is to the Bible what the Book of Matthew is to the book of Acts. No more, no less.

Oh, Good! So you accept with all of it implecitations Mt. 16:18-20 ** 14* And they said, “Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” 15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16* Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17* And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18* And I tell you, you are Peter, * and on this rock * I will build my church, and the powers of death * shall not prevail against it. 19* I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”**

Take not of the use of “singular” …".I" and "you’… and “my”… and “church.”

Wow, if you believe this you should be a RCC!

Aren’t you getting tired of making statements about Mormonism that are this completely off base?

My dear friend in Christ they are neither without base, nor or they even exagerations. Sadly we proclaim to you the truth.

I’m truly glad we are still friends

May God bless and keep you, may His Light shine upon you, May He lead you Eternal Life.

[/QUOTE]

 

[dianaiad]

Dianaiad:

We have 13 Articles of Faith, the 8th one of which reads:
"We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God"

Wow, 13 Articles of Faith!" That certainly makes adherence to it much simpler. I wish Christ Jesus, our Lord and Savior (God to us) had thought of it first `

What, you have a problem with a statement of beliefs?I mean, if you do, then perhaps you should throw out the Athanasian Creed, and the apostles Creed, and the catechism…After all, Isn’t that what the catechism is, in part? Isn’t that what the creeds are, in part? Isn’t that what the Sermon on the Mount is, in part?

So I suppose that Christ did think of it first.

I ask the following question because in my last post, I shared with you, that all Scripture is inspired by God, and useful for teaching and correction.

I take it this is one of the passages you choose to ignore. That’s really convienient! It fits right in there with “The Fundemental Option” which proclaims that is is only wrong, if I say it’s wrong.

Ignore it? I agreed with it. I guess you missed that. It’s just that you have forgotten that we believe that the Book of Mormon is scripture, right up there with the Bible.

Just think of how wonderful that is. “It’s only a sin if I -me, say’s it’s a sin.” So you have conviently removed all sin from your lives. Awesome! That proberly explains why ya’all have a seperate Heaven, the other one is already filled (not with male, Hebrew virgins) but with followers of the LDS.

What in the name of all that is wonderful are you talking about???

You csrtainly have much lower expectations of God whom we see as All-Loving, and, get this please, also, “All Just.” But then you’all don’t sin so you don’t have worry about God’s Justice. Or do you?

Again, huh? You have utterly lost me. What’s the problem; you can’t argue with what those Articles of Faith actually say, so now you are criticizing us for actually having them at all?

What is it; does their presence ruin your ability to decide what our doctrine is without our stepping in and saying 'wait…WHAT did you say we believed???"

dianaiad:

On the title page of the Book of Mormon, we read the following:

Actually, I think you have it alsmost right. You say “God” but do you believe (please answer this) that God is all everything Good?
All Wise, All Knowing, All Powerful, and does your “God” have three seperate, yet unable to be seperated Divine Natures, in One Person?

And who judges mistakes? Me. Smith, you, the book of Mormon, or God as I have defined Him? hmmmmm.

Why should I ‘answer this?’

You won’t believe me, you won’t accept my answer, and you will simply snip the answer I give if it doesn’t agree with your rather strange ideas of what we believe.

(shrug)

However, we believe that God is omnipotent, omniscient, and that the Godhead consists of three Individuals who share that quality ‘God’. But they are separate Individuals.

As for Who judges mistakes, well, that would be Jesus Christ, since He 'bought us with a Price."

I’m truly glad we are still friends

May God bless and keep you, may His Light shine upon you, May He lead you Eternal Life.