What should I have done? What should I do?

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Sanctus

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I went to daily mass today in a parish which is not my home parish. Turns out they were fixing their roof so the Priest decided to say mass in the Parish Hall.(Fumes were unbearable in the Church) Well…he had us all gather around the make-shift alter to prepare for Mass and this is when I first noticed things that were odd. Out of his briefcase he pulls out the Blessed Sacrament in a marked Glad Lock box. Then he pulls out lots of hosts in ziplock baggies. I thought, ok, disrespectful to carry the Blessed Sacrament like that but maybe he just brought it from the Tabernacle. Well…then he goes to change…he comes back out in an Alb, through which his shirt collar sticks up through (not a clerical shirt either) and he is wearing a stole with pictures of kids of different nationalities holding hands. He says “for todays Mass I want everyone to disregard the rubrics of the Mass. Remain seated at all times.” Well, we got to the Gospel and by nature some of the people stood up…(I was on my way to standing up) and Father stopped and motioned us all to sit down, reminding us that he wanted us to stay seated. Even throught the liturgy of the Eucharist he kept us seated. I was under the impression that I was being disrespectful to God and to the Church’s intentions as a whole, however, peer pressure kept me from doing what I felt right. What should I have done? What should I do? Dosen’t this strike you as odd? I didn’t think a Priest was allowed to just do away with the rubrics of Mass because they were an “inconvience.” Help, please.

God Bless,
 
How strange. Were you able to talk to any other parishioners to determine if this is his norm?

Sounds like Mass at the Cross-In-The-Woods in Northern Michigan. Said outside, it is sit only, although some do kneel and stand regardless. The indoor church, not under repair, has no statues, no tabernacle etc. etc.

Did you get to see the sanctuary or any other sign of orthodoxy?
MrS
 
Pulling hosts out of baggies probably wasn’t disrespectful because the unconsecrated hosts come from plastic bags. He was just getting out what he was going to consecrate during the Mass. As for ignoring the rubrics, though, the priest actually denied everyone present their ***RIGHT ***to a proper liturgy.

Redemptionis Sacramentum:
[169.] Whenever an abuse is committed in the celebration of the sacred Liturgy, it is to be seen as a real falsification of Catholic Liturgy. St Thomas wrote, “the vice of falsehood is perpetrated by anyone who offers worship to God on behalf of the Church in a manner contrary to that which is established by the Church with divine authority, and to which the Church is accustomed”.[278]

[183.] In an altogether particular manner, let everyone do all that is in their power to ensure that the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist will be protected from any and every irreverence or distortion and that all abuses be thoroughly corrected. This is a most serious duty incumbent upon each and every one, and all are bound to carry it out without any favouritism.

[184.] Any Catholic, whether Priest or Deacon or lay member of Christ’s faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law, or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff.[290] It is fitting, however, insofar as possible, that the report or complaint be submitted first to the diocesan Bishop. This is naturally to be done in truth and charity.
 
Just to clarify I was more freaked out by the Concecrated Sacrament comming out of the Glad Lock box. I know the inside of the church, I have been to a Sunday mass there once. It is not what you would call the most orthodox church ever…It was bought when the Baptists moved out (it’s on campus) so it is a “church in the round” (hope that’s the correct term. I didn’t really get a chance to talk to everyone there because I am pretty sure I was the only “outsider” however there were two Nuns there, one of whom I know very well. What is the best way to handle this? Should I talk to my friend who is the Nun? Should I talk to the Priest? Should I leave a letter? If so, should I sign it?
 
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Sanctus:
Just to clarify I was more freaked out by the Concecrated Sacrament comming out of the Glad Lock box. I know the inside of the church, I have been to a Sunday mass there once. It is not what you would call the most orthodox church ever…It was bought when the Baptists moved out (it’s on campus) so it is a “church in the round” (hope that’s the correct term. I didn’t really get a chance to talk to everyone there because I am pretty sure I was the only “outsider” however there were two Nuns there, one of whom I know very well. What is the best way to handle this? Should I talk to my friend who is the Nun? Should I talk to the Priest? Should I leave a letter? If so, should I sign it?
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The most charitable thing would be to ask Father about your concerns. If you get good answers ,all’s well. But if you get strange answers, then go to the Bishop.
 
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Sanctus:
Just to clarify I was more freaked out by the Concecrated Sacrament comming out of the Glad Lock box.
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Why would he even need to bring the consecrated Blessed Sacrament? I guess he was trying to use the hosts from a previous Mass? It would seem that for a daily Mass there shouldn’t really be any left over. It’s not like it would be so hard to count the number necessary to consecrate. I could see if it was Monday and they were left over from Sunday. (It’s much harder to predict how many hosts would be needed.) But by Tuesday you’d think that there would be just as many as needed for the Mass and to take to the sick.

There is no reason not to ask your friend, the nun. And by all means talk to the priest and ask for his explanation. You may have a better chance of getting an answer if you write a letter.
 
Yeah, I just want to make sure I don’t present the snotty young guy apperance…I’m 19 and the Priest has probably been a priest as long as I’ve been alive, so I want to make sure I don’t come off as rude. Any suggestions? Has anyone ever had to bring these things up with a Priest?
 
An example of a good answer might be, “The fumes were so strong that I feared some of the worshippers could feel faint if they stood or knelt.”

A poor answer might be, “The Mass moved along faster without everyone having to get up and down.”

A priest has no right to eliminate the rubrics from the Mass, so it should be a very good reason, such as the safety of the worshippers.

If his answers are not satisfactory, I wouldn’t pretend that they are. I’d just leave it at that, and explain the entire matter in writing to the bishop, who may offer correction as he sees fit.

That is the way the Holy Father has instructed us to handle liturgical abuses in Redemptionis Sacramentum, and it’s the only way that a problem might potentially be corrected. Talking with the Nun won’t change things.
 
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Sanctus:
Yeah, I just want to make sure I don’t present the snotty young guy apperance…I’m 19 and the Priest has probably been a priest as long as I’ve been alive, so I want to make sure I don’t come off as rude. Any suggestions? Has anyone ever had to bring these things up with a Priest?
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“I was just curious… Today we/you did such and such and I’d never seen that before. What is the story behind it?”

If you get a strange answer, you can say that you heard that 'we weren’t allowe to do that" and go from there.
 
It’s not like it would be so hard to count the number necessary to consecrate. I could see if it was Monday and they were left over from Sunday. (It’s much harder to predict how many hosts would be needed.) But by Tuesday you’d think that there would be just as many as needed for the Mass and to take to the sick.
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I do not believe this parish celebrates Daily Mass on Monday so these probably were the “left overs” from Sunday…there are three churches in town with two priests so I know there is some jumping from Church to Church.
 
If they were consecrated hosts, then they should have been carried in a pix or some other suitable container, rather than a Glad-Lock box. Our Lord’s Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinty should be carried in something much more noble than Tupperware.
 
Are you positive the contents of the ziplock were concecrated Hosts.??

Did he use them at on the Altar at Mass during the Eucharisitic prayer? If he did, it means that was plain bread he took out of his briefcase.

It really sounds like the priest was using a standard “Mass kit” which contains unconcecrated bread. Most priests have these kits prepared for when they say Mass outside of the church building (hospitals, ect…)

It is not only perfectly legimate to keep the unconcecrated bread in a ziplock bag, it’s a good way to keep them from spoilage. It’s just plain bread prior to Mass.

(Heck, I remember my altar server class, Father cracked open a pack and we dipped 'em in jam, just to prove the point)
 
Father probably was carrying unconsecrated hosts for the Mass. I suspect he used these on the Altar during the Mass?

With regard to diregarding the rubrics, he has no authority. It was better for the sake of visible unity to do as the congregation were doing and as Father instructed you even though it was most uncomfortable.
If I was really uncomfortable with the instructions Father had given before Mass I would have left before it began. There was a choice then!! Maybe noone was aware exactly what was about to happen.
If you chose to stay knowing that the rubrics were to be ignored well then I think it was better to follow suit.
Problem is these days that a lot of people will go with whatever is happening or with whatever they are told simply because they know no better. They are not clear on rubrics or anything of the sort.
Thank God there are some folk out there who have taken the time to learn and research what is right and what is wrong, reprobate or distorted.

My advice? I would put pen to paper and convey to him your suprise and shock at his arrogance, stating also that if anything of the sort happend like that again you would go to the Bishop as you are entiltled to do through Canon Law, the Catechism and other Vatican Instructions.
I have made contact with a Priest this way before over liberties he is taking with the Holy Sacrifice.
if you consider writing then start off very positively mentioning some of the good and welcome developments the Priest has initiated in the Parish, also your delight that the fumes problem did not deny you the Mass!! However then move on to the concerns you have keeping everything always very polite and to the point. Make sure you refer to chapter and verse of any liturgical / Church documents consulted that show the rubrics have been ignored or changed. Then in that manner the Priest is at odds with the Church not with you as you are bringing the instruction of the Church to his attention.
I will pray for you!!

God Bless,
Fergal
 
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Sanctus:
Yeah, I just want to make sure I don’t present the snotty young guy apperance…I’m 19 and the Priest has probably been a priest as long as I’ve been alive, so I want to make sure I don’t come off as rude. Any suggestions? Has anyone ever had to bring these things up with a Priest?
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For the life of me, I don’t understand my fellow countrymen! When someone is rude to you, why would you scruple to return the favor? Courtesy and rudeness are not moral stances, they are social ones. The “priest” was being antisocial, and, whatever the real status of the wafers he pulled from his baggies, his overt behavior was scandalous and clearly intended to be provocative.

In many parts of the world, for many centuries, and for a multitude of reasons, people have had to do without daily mass. Get up and walk out. How else will this social misfit learn?

Oh, and age is no barrier to silliness. I know, being old.
 
Yes the hosts in the Glad Lock were the concecrated hosts…when he took them out he placed them in another container…I believe called a ciborium. (Gold Cup with a cross on top.) I still don’t know if the best way is to write the letter or to see him in person.
 
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Sanctus:
Yes the hosts in the Glad Lock were the concecrated hosts…when he took them out he placed them in another container…I believe called a ciborium. (Gold Cup with a cross on top.) I still don’t know if the best way is to write the letter or to see him in person.
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Unconsecreated hosts are put in a ciborium before they are consecrated.
–Ann
 
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Sanctus:
Yeah, I just want to make sure I don’t present the snotty young guy apperance…I’m 19 and the Priest has probably been a priest as long as I’ve been alive, so I want to make sure I don’t come off as rude. Any suggestions? Has anyone ever had to bring these things up with a Priest?
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I am 29, a cradle Catholic and fully committed to Christ and the Church… and I must confess I am very uneasy bringing anything up with a priest…nothing against the priesthood and I wish I didnt’ feel this way. I think the key is to not hurt his pride, his feelings and make him feel like he has to protect himself… maybe bring it up at first as though you don’t understand and want him to explain it to you… very humbly, of course. Just have the attitued of "I am only 19 and am trying to learn more about my religion… and I have never seen this done before … can you help me understand?
 
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Sanctus:
Yeah, I just want to make sure I don’t present the snotty young guy apperance…I’m 19 and the Priest has probably been a priest as long as I’ve been alive, so I want to make sure I don’t come off as rude. Any suggestions? Has anyone ever had to bring these things up with a Priest?
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As a professor, I understand your concerns. Perhaps the way to approach the discussion is to turn it around and make it into an honest query from someone who’s confused instead of into a challenge of his authority.

The way to start would be: “Father, I was hoping for a few minutes with you to discuss some questions from your mass earlier this week.” Then explain your confusion and discomfort with the first element and explain how it made you feel. Don’t bring in facts/quotes, etc. That’s making it into a debate and you won’t get your message across. Be honest and sincere in how it made you feel to sit during the Gospel and how it made you feel to see the host handled as it was.

From the sounds of it, he’s probably covering many liturgies. It’s perfectly fine for him to transport hosts (yes, even in a Glad box) to use up excess from other masses. It sounds like you’re on a campus and he could have said mass at a local hospital, senior citizens center, nursing home and Newman Center over the weekend. If there weren’t as many people present as anticipated or as many partaking of the Eucharist as he thought, then he either has to eat the excess or use them at the next mass. Isn’t it better that they’re used by all than eaten just by him?
 
loyola rambler:
From the sounds of it, he’s probably covering many liturgies. It’s perfectly fine for him to transport hosts (yes, even in a Glad box) to use up excess from other masses. It sounds like you’re on a campus and he could have said mass at a local hospital, senior citizens center, nursing home and Newman Center over the weekend. If there weren’t as many people present as anticipated or as many partaking of the Eucharist as he thought, then he either has to eat the excess or use them at the next mass. Isn’t it better that they’re used by all than eaten just by him?
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Oh Boy!! 😦 It’s OK for the Priest to transport Hosts. The difference is unconsecrated hosts can be transported in a shoe box if necessary. Consecrated Hosts are the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. They must always be carried with dignity and reverence with a pyx or a ciborium. You talk of the excess from other Masses, I would take it that they are consecrated if they are ‘excess from other Masses’ right? Just where did you get the idea that its ok to carry Christ in a Glad box?
Can I see the document where permission is given to carry Christ in anything but a pyx or ciborium??
Excess Hosts are to be reserved in a tabernacle.
If he is covering many Masses, this does not give the Priest the right to carry Christ with haste in a Glad box.

I guess this proves that our worries are never unfounded.

Fergal
Naas
Ireland
 
Unconsecreated hosts are put in a ciborium before they are consecrated.
–Ann
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I learned something today! I always thought that when the top is on it signifies that the hosts are Concecrated.
 
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