What sort of obligations do I have in this situation?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Diamond93
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

Diamond93

Guest
So I have many extended family members who are guilty of the sins of fornication, cohabitation, and having children out of wedlock. This is a rampant problem in my extended family. Well, now I have yet another relative who is expecting an illegitimate child with his girlfriend. They are living together, not married, and as far as I know are not planning to get married anytime soon. They recently sent out invitations for their baby shower in a few months, which I already know I’m not attending given that we live in different states anyways and I can’t afford to fly out. My relative’s girlfriend recently asked my permission to follow me on Instagram, so I allowed her to, and now we follow one another. She’s obviously mostly posting pictures of her and her baby bump these days, with all of her friends and my family complimenting her and praising her. I have not yet commented or liked any of these photos, but again we just barely started following each other a week ago.

I am asking for advice here because I don’t know how I should react to them or if I should even react at all. I can’t help but get angry watching these people living in sin getting praised for it by all of my other equally misguided extended family. I can’t keep acting like I’m OK with this sort of behavior, and I don’t want to encourage bad behavior. I’m tempted to not comment or like any of these photos, RSVP for their baby shower, or even congratulate them once their baby arrives. I know this sounds cold and harsh, but doesn’t there reach a point where I can’t give even the slightest impression that I approve of this? In the past, I’ve congratulated female family members who have given birth to illegitimate children and gone to weddings of my relatives who previously were cohabiting. But now I’m starting to believe that I need to draw a line and just say no to this insanity and have no part in it. Obviously I love my family but I’m angered at their blatant disregard of God’s laws when they all know better. And isn’t it my moral obligation to send them a message that I don’t agree with this? I know I can’t preach to them but just by saying nothing and not even acknowledging it would that be good enough to send the message that I disagree with it?

What should I do?
 
A simple post here.

First, just to affirm you that it is really common these days for people to live together and that marriages are not even considered in these relationship.

You just live with these people/families members/relatives, who do not have Christian religious value. It is what they are, and perhaps they are just following the trend.

There is not much you can do about it. Whatever you say or do, they will most probably will do what they do.

This does not mean you endorse their lifestyle, and you can say something like, “Oh, it would be nice if you get married, now that she is pregnant.” The message is delivered, from your point of view.

I believe by not endorsing, you should not support them. However, there will be some practicalities later that you have to face - they are still your relatives, where you have to support them though disagreeing with what they do.

Having said that, as a family member, you do have influence on them. Your religious values, practicing the religious life and change of personal character will impress them, but it is a process, a result that you may or may not see.

God bless.
 
Last edited:
I do not recommend suggesting marriage “now that she is pregnant”. My PIL married because they were expecting Hubby. The marriage ended and badly. Hubby and his ex married because they were expecting my kid. The marriage ended and badly. There must be more to marriage than “We have kids together”. My brother and his girlfriend have a daughter together. She is almost 3 months old. I am making a baby gift for her. It’s not my business to decide their morality. That’s their choice. My job is just to celebrate the baby - however she got here - and to be the doting auntie. “Not my circus, not my monkeys.”
 
Children should be raised in a marriage - that’s the principle. They should get married if they want to start a family. It’s nothing to do with whether the marriage works or not. It is a principle that the OP abide with - no sex, no children, outside of marriage. It is communicating her belief stance.

As I said, saying they get married will not make them so, it is just the OP’s stand in this situation, rather than endorsing their cohabitation.
 
Last edited:
Diamond93 said:
Obviously I love my family but I’m angered at their blatant disregard of God’s laws when they all know better. And isn’t it my moral obligation to send them a message that I don’t agree with this? I know I can’t preach to them but just by saying nothing and not even acknowledging it would that be good enough to send the message that I disagree with it?

What should I do?
Click to expand...
It sounds like what you’d like to do is let them know, in no uncertain terms, that they are unworthy sinners and you want nothing to do with them.

But think about that for a while. How does cutting them off, treating them as though they are terrible people, show them God’s love? Draw them back to the faith? When faced with situations like this, we can never forget that we, too, are sinners; it’s just that our sins may not be as publicly noticeable as theirs.
 
I never said that they were unworthy sinners. I never said that other people were not sinners either. But I don’t feel like I can acknowledge this pregnancy without coming across like I agree with their lifestyle choices. Nor am I going to start preaching to them about why what they’re doing is wrong either. But how else can I take a stance against it? Especially when the rest of the family is praising them and egging it on when they all know it’s wrong too. My extended family all claim themselves as “Christian,” and love to cherry-pick Bible verses that fit with what they like, but purposely ignore the parts of the Bible that they know they’ve failed to live up to or whatever’s inconvenient for them to follow. So that’s what upsets me more. Not only are they living in sin- they’re surrounded by my so-called Christian family members who just enable it more and they don’t speak up against it.
 
I can understand your frustration. Two of my sisters are currently “coparenting”. Do you know what that means? It used the mean a divorced couple cooperating to raise their children properly. Apparently not anymore. My sisters are legally married to their husbands, living under the same roof, and plan to continue doing so, while openly having relationships with other men! I mean, they have pictures of themselves on their social media accounts with other men that are not the men they live with, are married to, and who sired their children! And what’s even more bizarre is they say things like, “Oh, I’m so happy I’ve found Frank, the love of my life! The kids are doing great in school! My husband is working on his music career or something in his room in the basement! He’s so great with helping out with homework duty!” and people actually read this and actively approve, make little hearts and smilies, and say, “Glad you’re doing so great!” In the cases of my sisters, I have personally told them that they are insane a long time ago. I told them in person, so I see no reason to do so on facebook. I just ignore the freakshow posts and comment on the good ones. If one of them should announce a pregnancy, I’m not sure how I would react, though I’m pretty sure that isn’t going to happen. My older sister mentioned something about “raising a family of dogs” with her new boyfriend, but her “roommate” (aka legal husband) is allergic so I’m not sure how that’s going to work out. Anyway, the craziness isn’t the baby’s fault. If someone invites you to a shower, you should at least return the RSVP. And pray for them!
 
I appreciate that you don’t approve of these people’s lifestyles, but I think it’s always best for us to treat people with love rather than judgement. We are often told that God doesn’t require us to become perfect before we can meet him, but that he meets us where we are, no matter where that is. And I think that that’s the best way that we can deal with other people: meet them where they are. There is really nothing to be gained from expressing your judgement towards people, but there is everything to be gained from showing them kindness, no matter what the circumstances. The Jesus I read about in the gospels is always doing things like eating with tax collectors and sinners, inviting people from the highways and byways to his feast, telling us not to judge other people unless we want to be judged in the same way, telling us to forgive and to turn the other cheek.

I think that for Catholics there is a very particular responsibility to show tolerance and respect for others, even if you do not approve of some of their lifestyle choices. The Catholic Church does not always enjoy a very good reputation and we are often assumed to be narrow-minded, bigoted, intolerant, judgemental people. Your family members no doubt know that you are a Catholic and know what moral standards you would aspire to for yourself and for others. They no doubt know already that they fall short of your expectations. Engaging with them in their current circumstances doesn’t mean that you are expressing approval, it means that you are bearing witness to your Christian faith by showing them love. On the other hand, refusing to have anything to do with people because we disapprove of their moral choices just confirms their suspicions that Christians are not really interested in love, but are only really interested in judging people for their sins. That is one sure way to drive people even further from the Church. It makes people think of those Irish laundries where unmarried mothers were sent and had their babies adopted by rich Americans.

Finally, while the Church teaches the importance of marriage, it also teaches us to celebrate life. I’m afraid you do sound a bit like those 18th-century English moralists who saw illegitimate children first and foremost as evidence of the prevalence of sin. A new birth should always be an occasion for celebration. Try to see the good they are doing, not the bad. The mother didn’t have an abortion; the father hasn’t abandoned his partner to be a single parent. I think if you refuse to acknowledge the new baby they can only take that as a sure sign that you have no future relationship with them. Look at it from their point of view: this is the most important thing that will ever happen to them, and they probably won’t ever forgive you if you pointedly refuse to congratulate them.

In short, I think you have an opportunity to do the Christ-like thing and meet sinners (as we all are) where they are with love, compassion, forgiveness, and a lack of judgement, and if you do this they will perhaps gain a new respect for your Catholic faith.
 
God has given us his commandments for our good. Clearly it’s best for children that they be raised by married parents. So what I might say is “Congratulations on your coming baby! I hope you and Joe will consider getting married, since it’s clear that committed parents make the best parents and their children turn out more secure.”
That might sound a little preachy, but it’s true. And it gives a logical reason for the suggestion, not just “because the church says so.”
Once you have said that, I would stop. Your post sounds a bit angry and frustrated, and I understand your frustration. But I hope you can avoid letting your anger dictate your relationships with your relatives. They will remember your love more than your drawing attention to their sins.
I think it’s fine to attend a wedding of people who’ve been cohabiting. It’s a step in the right direction for them.
 
You have two choices:
  1. Tell them that you strongly disapprove of their entire lifestyle, think it’s sinful, and want nothing further to do with them. Then cut them off and just put up with any fallout from other family members or difficult family situations that might arise at the next family wedding, funeral, holiday get together, etc.
OR
  1. Try to be understanding and kind, such as being happy that a baby is going to be born and loved and not aborted and cast aside. Also ask God for patience to deal with the other peoples’ situations and the fact that not everybody has the same values or code of conduct that you do. Remember that Jesus was very kind to sinners even when he disapproved of that woman at the well being married 7 times or whatever. Be like Jesus.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Be like Jesus.
Click to expand...
And be like Pope Francis! Remember that Alfie Evans’s parents are not married, but the Holy Father didn’t appear to draw attention to that when he met Alfie’s father. He treated them like any young family in need of his pastoral support. As far as has been reported, he didn’t even raise the question of marriage with them. It wouldn’t have helped. And he certainly didn’t value Alfie any the less on account of his being “illegitimate”. Does anyone even say “illegitimate” any more? I suspect that if Pope Francis were to meet the OP’s relative and his girlfriend he’d definitely congratulate them on the new baby. From what I’ve read about him, he’d probably offer to do the baptism. He has a long history of a sensitive and pragmatic pastoral approach with unmarried mothers and unmarried couples.
 
I think making it about the baby is a good way to handle it.
The baby did not get any say in who his parents would be. He deserves to have his life celebrated just as much as a baby who happened to get parents who were already married in the Church and practicing their faith.

If the parents are both prepared to love the baby and take the roles of loving, active parents, he’s further ahead of so many children in this world today.
 
You should love them. This baby is a blessing, regardless of the sins of his parents.

Remember that it would have been far easier to abort this baby, yet, LIFE was the choice.

Our job is to love, the Holy Spirit will take care of conversion.
 
OK, I understand where you all are coming from here. So what you all are saying is that I have the OK to like or comment positively on her photos on Instagram? I’ll RSVP for her baby shower for sure, even though like I said before I’m not going given that they’re out of state anyways.
 
Londoner said:
There is really nothing to be gained from expressing your judgement towards people, but there is everything to be gained from showing them kindness, no matter what the circumstances. The Jesus I read about in the gospels is always doing things like eating with tax collectors and sinners, inviting people from the highways and byways to his feast, telling us not to judge other people unless we want to be judged in the same way, telling us to forgive and to turn the other cheek.
Click to expand...
Yes, Jesus spent time with sinners, but He didn’t approve of their sins either. He spent time with them in order to convert them from their sinful ways. And please do not give me the whole, “Judge not” spiel. That is the most twisted, misused bible verse and I’m tired of people throwing that in my face to try to make me out to be the mean girl. Since when did trying to take a stand for the right thing make someone “judgmental”? We are called to judge between right and wrong, if we didn’t there would be no difference between anything in life. I’m willing to acknowledge the birth of their child and will do the polite thing by my relatives, nor will I verbally shove my beliefs down their throat, but my stance against their lifestyles are still as firm as ever. But I will keep that to myself.
 
I think a lot of it depends on how old you are and how close you are. I agree with the general principle that we should not publicly approve of these lifestyles and that our failure to do so may only be contributing to the growth of these situations instead of “keeping the door open to evangelization”.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top