What the hook-up culture has done to women.

[Allegra]

Dorms are needed because most college freshman are not ready for the jump to university academics, let alone buying and preparing their own food and accomplishing the other tasks that adults have to accomplish in daily life.

Most universities have a quiet dorm that is miles better in terms of a living situation for students who intend to use their college years to learn as much as possible from their coursework and get good grades to show for it.

When university food providers in our locale went from the all-you-can-eat model to a tick system where points are used to pay for food, the quality and the range of choices increased tremendously. There isn’t any reason a student cannot find healthful meal choices in a university with one of those good food services. The kind of food that college students typically prepare for themselves, meanwhile, easily spans the entire spectrum you are talking about. A lot of college students buy prepared food that is high in salt, high in sugar, high in calories, relatively high in cost per serving and low in nutritional value because they like junk food and do not have a clue how to grocery shop or cook their own meals.

I would not advise a typical first-year college student to start out in their first apartment and take care of their own food procurement or preparation unless they were already accustomed to doing that. It’s too much to take on in addition to the academic change, and that is true even if they were very good and hard-working high school students. College coursework is not just harder than high school work; it is also very different.

I thoroughly disagree. An 18-year-old who is too helpless to procure and prepare their own food ought to be kept at home a few more years and not be allowed to live independently at all. If through some sort of major parenting failure, a teenager has never boiled a potato, scrambled an egg, or made a sandwich prior to their freshman year in college, I fail to see how dorm life is going to improve their situation. I’ve never heard of one that had cooking lessons. Campus life is likely to eat such a person alive! It’s a parent’s responsibility to teach their children to budget, cook, identify appropriate nutrition, and otherwise take care of themselves before they send them out into the world. At any rate, I certainly don’t expect a stint in dormitory hell to teach my kids to be adults, or apparently anything other than various uses for free condoms. Fortunately, I don’t believe the vast majority of college freshman are so clueless that they can’t feed themselves.

 

[HouseArrest]

After several years working for a university, I have come to the conclusion that dorms are a huge ripoff and a money-making system for the university. There is nothing “safer” about living in a dorm unless its a campus in a really unsafe urban area. It is massively expensive, very poor quality of life, a nutrition nightmare, and an environment completely not condusive to study or forming an appropriate social life. I intend to encourage my kids to attend one of the dozen or so local university options and live at home, or pick a school that allows students to live off campus in their own apartment.

Yes, how about that! Even in a college town with inflated rent for an apartment, a student can cut living costs tremendously on room and board.

There are a few drawbacks, though. I had an RA that was really very helpful to me my first year of college. Now they aren’t all that good, but that person would be missing in an apartment situation.

Also, students who live off campus sometimes don’t go back on campus for activities that are held in the evenings and weekends. (And sometimes that is a good thing…)

Ideally a student could live at home for some of the time. We have two state university branch campuses about an hour drive each for us. On top of the long drive, a student must transfer to the four year university to finish. That poses other problems as well. We usually consider the idea, but haven’t chosen it as of yet.

 

[Xantippe]

I haven’t caught up with the thread, but I have a lot to say. Sorry in advance!

1. A lot of people are doing a lot of different stuff.

newsweek.com/58-harvard-came-school-virgins-quarter-leave-way-336847

“Fifty-eight percent of respondents said they were virgins when they arrived at Harvard, and nearly a quarter said they had not had sex by graduation.”

“Nineteen percent of male students said they had engaged in sex with 10 or more sexual partners at Harvard, while 7 percent of female respondents said the same.”

Notice that the hook-up track at Harvard seems actually to be smaller than the virginity track.

“The college life is getting more chaste—and more randy—at the same time, according to recent studies. A Stanford sociologist who surveyed a whopping 17,000 college students since 2005 found that a hefty 24% of seniors said they were virgins.”

newser.com/story/115348/in-college-more-virgins-and-more-casual-sex.html

I’ll say more in a bit.

There is some difference in attention, from administration of colleges from the 90’s where 99.99% of the time there were no condoms being pushed at dorm entrances and condom distributing games being played at orientation, and now.

The many articles I have read are using the term “hook up culture”. There may be another set of students who are in dating relationships and having premarital sex, but that is not where the uprising of concern is. Sure, everyone wants the students to be physically healthy, but the articles about these new “relationships” also address the psychological effects of, putting it probably too simply, being used.

Are there that many couples in committed dating relationships that don’t have their birth control all figured out, and will need a last minute condom on the way into the dorm? Probably not enough to warrant a basket of them a the entrance.

All I am trying to point out is that it is clear from the amount of articles, reactions of college administrations, and formation of clubs that this is not a small problem contained within a small number of students.

Edited to add: If I remember correctly, your kids are small, and so are Allegra’s. The hook up culture started about the 80’s, and is finally becoming noticed as a huge problem. I certainly hope that by the time your kids are old enough to go on college visits, this kind of dorm living is over or at least tamed somewhat. I have horror story after horror story about the campus atmosphere. There are just too many to go into.

 

[EasterJoy]

I thoroughly disagree. An 18-year-old who is too helpless to procure and prepare their own food ought to be kept at home a few more years and not be allowed to live independently at all. If through some sort of major parenting failure, a teenager has never boiled a potato, scrambled an egg, or made a sandwich prior to their freshman year in college, I fail to see how dorm life is going to improve their situation. I’ve never heard of one that had cooking lessons. Campus life is likely to eat such a person alive! It’s a parent’s responsibility to teach their children to budget, cook, identify appropriate nutrition, and otherwise take care of themselves before they send them out into the world. At any rate, I certainly don’t expect a stint in dormitory hell to teach my kids to be adults, or apparently anything other than various uses for free condoms. Fortunately, I don’t believe the vast majority of college freshman are so clueless that they can’t feed themselves.

Since I’ve met many graduate students, post-doctoral fellows and even an assistant professor who could make and characterize chemical compounds no one else had ever made before but couldn’t successfully make something as simple as brownies from a mix or a grilled cheese sandwich, I think you are quite wrong about who is and who is not eaten alive on a college campus. People who are free to excel at their studies without having to worry about where their meals are coming from do pretty well, actually. That may scandalize you, but that is the way it is.

No, campus life does not eat the student alive who can simply study and learn how college life works in their first year without having to learn how little they really know about housekeeping. Students who are overwhelmed by having to learn too many things all at once are the ones who are more likely to drop out. This is why colleges so often require students who have not lived on their own before and who are not living with their parents to live in the dorms the first year. This vastly improves their retention rate, that’s why.

I’d also like to point out that the “hook up culture” is alive and well among young adults who have never set foot in a college classroom. College is not what makes young people do this, and people who have no particular goals in life are far more likely to “party” as much as they have an opportunity to do so than people who have a reason to delay the instant gratification of hedonism in all its soul-numbing contemporary forms.

 

[redbetta]

Since I’ve met many graduate students, post-doctoral fellows and even an assistant professor who could make and characterize chemical compounds no one else had ever made before but couldn’t successfully make something as simple as brownies from a mix or a grilled cheese sandwich, I think you are quite wrong about who is and who is not eaten alive on a college campus. People who are free to excel at their studies without having to worry about where their meals are coming from do pretty well, actually. That may scandalize you, but that is the way it is.

No, campus life does not eat the student alive who can simply study and learn how college life works in their first year without having to learn how little they really know about housekeeping. Students who are overwhelmed by having to learn too many things all at once are the ones who are more likely to drop out. This is why colleges so often require students who have not lived on their own before and who are not living with their parents to live in the dorms the first year. This vastly improves their retention rate, that’s why.

I’d also like to point out that the “hook up culture” is alive and well among young adults who have never set foot in a college classroom. College is not what makes young people do this, and people who have no particular goals in life are far more likely to “party” as much as they have an opportunity to do so than people who have a reason to delay the instant gratification of hedonism in all its soul-numbing contemporary forms.

I would like to add to this point. I just finished my first year at a dorm and I think I made the right decision. Whether or not a dorm would be bad for someone depends on the dorm. Some dorms are party dorms and people who choose to live on campus just to get away from their parents go there. I chose one of the most “anti-social” dorms that was close to the library and away from the party sector. Therefore, the more quiet and studious types populated it. I had a noise problem with the neighbors across the hall, but, they were decent enough to quiet down when I knocked and I never seen a drunk stumbling about or a druggy. There was a silent study and the cafeteria was pretty decent. Our building even had tutors that came several times a week and it was easy to get help.

I can understand how living in a dorm first year helps retention rate. I generally got more sleep in college than I did in high school because I spent a lot of time commuting and now the time I used to spend commuting went to sleep and studying. It was quick and easy for me to seek help from tutors, TA’s, and professors which I took advantage of regularly.

Anyway, I hope it wasn’t a pointless contribution I made. I agree with your point whole-heartedly.

 

[Anglewannabe]

What you aren’t grasping is that women are the gatekeepers to sex. When females guard their virtue, men don’t get any unless they get married or pay for it. Men were always easily corrupted, but held in check by women who realized that their sexuality is valuable and they weren’t giving it away for free. They kept their would be promiscuous sisters in check with good old fashioned shame.

While “slut shaming” still exists, it is much less effective thanks to the hookup culture which feminism enabled. It remains, however, a phenomenon of women attacking other women. A study was recently done that showed 2/3 of slut shaming on social media is done by women. So while I don’t blame you for being angry, I respectfully suggest it is misguided.

This must be the most ridiculous post I have ever read. I can’t help but think you are just purposely writing this to anger woman to get a kick. You can’t really believe this?

This is a Catholic forum and I would love to know where in the bible your theory is found

Not to mention how sad that you think men are children that can’t control themselves

Angie

 

[Allegra]

Since I’ve met many graduate students, post-doctoral fellows and even an assistant professor who could make and characterize chemical compounds no one else had ever made before but couldn’t successfully make something as simple as brownies from a mix or a grilled cheese sandwich, I think you are quite wrong about who is and who is not eaten alive on a college campus. People who are free to excel at their studies without having to worry about where their meals are coming from do pretty well, actually. That may scandalize you, but that is the way it is…

You say that’s the way it is. I say that’s the way it isn’t. The university where I worked didn’t even provide dormitories for graduate students or post-doctoral fellows, so it follows that 100% of those students managed to feed themselves. In fact, 100% of those students had managed to get through an undergraduate program alive and successfully, so they had managed to learn to take care of themselves well prior to enrolling in those programs. You may know many people who prefer to go through college not have to make their own brownies, and if their parents can afford to make that dream come true then more power to them, but that doesn’t mean that they couldn’t if they had to. I’ve also seen some extremely helpless college freshmen in the dorm who wore filthy underwear until Christmas because they couldn’t manage to use a laundromat, but their academic efforts and achievements generally matched their self-care ability.

 

[HouseArrest]

I haven’t caught up with the thread, but I have a lot to say. Sorry in advance!

1. A lot of people are doing a lot of different stuff.

newsweek.com/58-harvard-came-school-virgins-quarter-leave-way-336847

“Fifty-eight percent of respondents said they were virgins when they arrived at Harvard, and nearly a quarter said they had not had sex by graduation.”

“Nineteen percent of male students said they had engaged in sex with 10 or more sexual partners at Harvard, while 7 percent of female respondents said the same.”

Notice that the hook-up track at Harvard seems actually to be smaller than the virginity track.

“The college life is getting more chaste—and more randy—at the same time, according to recent studies. A Stanford sociologist who surveyed a whopping 17,000 college students since 2005 found that a hefty 24% of seniors said they were virgins.”

newser.com/story/115348/in-college-more-virgins-and-more-casual-sex.html

I’ll say more in a bit.

Those are interesting articles.

Hooking up doesn’t necessarily mean sex. Making out is hooking up. It is not AS regrettable as sex, obviously, but still not really the way a respectable night out should end. So those that returned the survey to the college newspaper who identified as virgins may just be part of the hook up culture.

There is a small snippet of info from the first article that I wish was expanded to more information. 19% of men reported sex with 10 or more partners while at Harvard, and 7% of women reported the same.

That’s huge! Seriously, just under 1 in 5 males at Harvard had 10 or more partners?! What about the percent that had 5 or more partners?! 4 or more? And how many instances with each partner? Same with women. That is troublesome.

 

[Xantippe]

Here’s another one from 2013:

thecrimson.com/flyby/article/2013/9/2/harvard-freshmen-survey-virgins/

“Apparently not everyone is doing it: 65 percent of members of the new freshman class recently surveyed by The Crimson admit to entering Harvard as a virgin.”

This subject is an evergreen, so you’ll see different articles with different numbers, but it seems to normally be right around 60%

I can’t can’t find the right article right now, but I remember seeing that the norm for Harvard undergraduates is 1 or 2 sexual partners for their entire time at Harvard.

I think it might be very helpful to students who are trying to be chaste to know that 1) everybody isn’t doing it 2) those that are doing it aren’t doing it with a lot of people and 3) truly promiscuous people are even less common than virgins at some colleges.

Those are interesting articles.

Hooking up doesn’t necessarily mean sex. Making out is hooking up. It is not AS regrettable as sex, obviously, but still not really the way a respectable night out should end. So those that returned the survey to the college newspaper who identified as virgins may just be part of the hook up culture.

There is a small snippet of info from the first article that I wish was expanded to more information. 19% of men reported sex with 10 or more partners while at Harvard, and 7% of women reported the same.

That’s huge! Seriously, just under 1 in 5 males at Harvard had 10 or more partners?! What about the percent that had 5 or more partners?! 4 or more? And how many instances with each partner? Same with women. That is troublesome.

 

[Xantippe]

I would not advise a typical first-year college student to start out in their first apartment and take care of their own food procurement or preparation unless they were already accustomed to doing that. It’s too much to take on in addition to the academic change, and that is true even if they were very good and hard-working high school students. College coursework is not just harder than high school work; it is also very different.

I agree. A lot of colleges require freshmen to live on campus because of these concerns.

I did both dorm and apartment living as an undergraduate, and I found my one term in an apartment very isolating, even though I was a junior and actually knew a lot of people at that point. Also, I was LOUSY at taking care of myself.

Also, college cafeteria food is actually really good in some places now. My family eats at a college dorm about 5 times a week normally. (It’s inexpensive for us, because my husband is faculty–a lot of other college families here do the same thing.)

There are some amazing opportunities nowadays to live on special-interest floors. (My husband was faculty-in-residence for one for several years and it was a great experience.)

 

[Xantippe]

I would like to add to this point. I just finished my first year at a dorm and I think I made the right decision. Whether or not a dorm would be bad for someone depends on the dorm. Some dorms are party dorms and people who choose to live on campus just to get away from their parents go there. I chose one of the most “anti-social” dorms that was close to the library and away from the party sector. Therefore, the more quiet and studious types populated it. I had a noise problem with the neighbors across the hall, but, they were decent enough to quiet down when I knocked and I never seen a drunk stumbling about or a druggy. There was a silent study and the cafeteria was pretty decent. Our building even had tutors that came several times a week and it was easy to get help.

I can understand how living in a dorm first year helps retention rate. I generally got more sleep in college than I did in high school because I spent a lot of time commuting and now the time I used to spend commuting went to sleep and studying. It was quick and easy for me to seek help from tutors, TA’s, and professors which I took advantage of regularly.

Anyway, I hope it wasn’t a pointless contribution I made. I agree with your point whole-heartedly.

No, that was great!

 

[Xantippe]

Not to monopolize the thread, but I have some somewhat relevant experience, as my husband is a professor, and we have lived on or near two different campuses for the last 14 years. I’ve spent virtually my entire adulthood on or near campus. Here are my observations:

1. College 1 was a Catholic college that you’ve heard of. The students were very career minded and there was barely any dating, but probably a fair amount of hook-up culture stuff. There were some unwholesome events on campus, but it was entirely student-driven–the college itself was not organizing the stuff. I lived in a dorm with my family for four years, and they definitely weren’t handing out big bowls of condoms. (This was in the early 2000s.) We did stuff with the pro-life group and the student Knights of Columbus (among other things), so I suspect we knew a lot of kids who were not doing hook-up culture. The pro-life students mentioned getting pelted with condoms by the pro-choice students when they were tabling on the central square. Although College 1 is kind of infamous, there were a lot of faithful Catholics there–faculty, staff and students, and there’s a lot of effort being made to provide wholesome (i.e. non-alcoholic) entertainment to students.

My personal theory is that any large Catholic college is going to contain a lot of practicing Catholics in absolute numbers, even if they are a minority.

1. College 2 is a college in TX. It’s less academic than College 1, but it has a much more conservative vibe. There are no icky student event posters around campus. At Sunday brunch on campus, a lot of students are carrying big ol’ Bibles. Catholic student life is vibrant. There’s dating. Maybe everybody isn’t a perfect angel, but if you want to be a perfect angel, it’s a great place to be. There are plenty of practicing Christian faculty members, and there is (again) a lot of wholesome entertainment, a million clubs, and lots of volunteering opportunities for engagement with the community.

I spend a lot of time in the cafeterias, and I often hear very earnest conversations between young Christians. I occasionally hear something unedifying, but it’s not the rule.

It’s also a “ring by spring” school with a reputation for MRS production–which is a good thing and a bad thing:

buzzfeed.com/cassidyleighk/15-signs-you-go-to-a-ring-by-spring-school-iaso?utm_term=.yxxXoMwXY#.nn9WMVEWA

Again, different schools are different.

 

[edwest2]

No one is perfect, but for those who are unequipped to deal with life on campus, they need to realize this is a problem.

loveandfidelity.org/

Ed

 

[Xantippe]

If an individual can’t find any campus in the US where they can preserve their virtue, they’re not trying very hard.

No one is perfect, but for those who are unequipped to deal with life on campus, they need to realize this is a problem.

loveandfidelity.org/

Ed

 

[edwest2]

The problem is quite widespread.

ncregister.com/daily-news/the-campus-sexual-assault-crisis-why-did-it-happen/

Ed

 

[Xantippe]

People find what they’re looking for.

If they want God, they find God on campus. If they want to learn, they find the library. If they want to party, they find parties. If they want to sin, they find sin.

The problem is quite widespread.

ncregister.com/daily-news/the-campus-sexual-assault-crisis-why-did-it-happen/

Ed

 

[bumby]

Uh, no just no.

Self propagating nonsense. A physician would never offer to refer a patient to counselling for being a virgin. And to equate rape with “hook up culture”…I just can’t. This “article” is disgusting.

It’s true. The hook up culture makes people think they are owed sex. This happened to me; I was raped after a date. The rapist even mentioned that I owed him sex. “I have taken you out, now this is what we do.” I wish we still had chaperones quite frankly.

 

[EasterJoy]

You say that’s the way it is. I say that’s the way it isn’t. The university where I worked didn’t even provide dormitories for graduate students or post-doctoral fellows, so it follows that 100% of those students managed to feed themselves.

Restaurants, vending machines, and microwave ovens. I kid you not. People are like rats; they get themselves fed, but not necessarily good things. I was shocked to find how many of these guys exist (they are almost all guys), but there were a lot of them.

In fact, 100% of those students had managed to get through an undergraduate program alive and successfully, so they had managed to learn to take care of themselves well prior to enrolling in those programs. You may know many people who prefer to go through college not have to make their own brownies, and if their parents can afford to make that dream come true then more power to them, but that doesn’t mean that they couldn’t if they had to. I’ve also seen some extremely helpless college freshmen in the dorm who wore filthy underwear until Christmas because they couldn’t manage to use a laundromat, but their academic efforts and achievements generally matched their self-care ability.

I also knew many people at my university who lived in the dorms or who bought prepared food all four years.

If you haven’t seen people who are wicked smart and accomplish more than their peers but seem to have no self-care ability, I don’t think you’ve known a lot of scientists. Honestly, I’ve been to national meetings and could not believe the number who didn’t bother to match their shirts with their pants, or didn’t know how. It beggars belief, but it happens.

None of this has anything whatsoever to do with hook-up culture. If you think the loose sex stops when people leave the dorms and get their own apartments, you’re very much mistaken. The truth is that people living on their own who don’t go to college at all watch the beer ads and look at the fashion ads and see the plot lines on TV, too. They think they know what life owes them, and it does a lot of harm.

 

[EasterJoy]

People find what they’re looking for.

If they want God, they find God on campus. If they want to learn, they find the library. If they want to party, they find parties. If they want to sin, they find sin.

This. The ones who are most vulnerable to regret are those who let others tell them what they ought to want, who don’t know their own hearts or who think they’ll grow to a lonely old age if they stick up for their own mind and their own best interests. They don’t realize it, but they essentially sell themselves down the river to chase a social life myth that is one big manipulative lie.

 

[Javan]

Restaurants, vending machines, and microwave ovens. I kid you not. People are like rats; they get themselves fed, but not necessarily good things. I was shocked to find how many of these guys exist (they are almost all guys), but there were a lot of them.

Oh, there’s lots of women like that too, or at least there were when I was in graduate school. And yes, I was one of them. I didn’t even have my own microwave until after my first year. I was way too busy with coursework and lab research to even think about wasting precious free time on things like food preparation! (I managed to do laundry once every week or so, and I wore a new pair of underwear everyday, so that counts, right?!)

I lived at home for the entirety of my undergraduate education due to wanting to save on costs and not get stuck sharing a room with a complete stranger, but really, one didn’t need to live in a dorm to take part in ‘hook ups’. There were usually plenty of people with apartments who were willing to make their bedrooms available for their friends as long as they were given advance notice.