What the hook-up culture has done to women.

[BlueEyedLady]

Just curious.

If you wouldn’t do something again, doesn’t that indicate an aspect of regret?

No. Life is full of things that I wouldn’t do again that I don’t regret. Youthful fashion choices come to mind. I would NEVER jump out of another airplane, but I’m so glad I did it once. Obviously, I wouldn’t date again because I’m married.

If I weren’t married I don’t know if I would have one night stands at this stage in life. I just can’t imagine what being single would be like or how I would navigate it.

 

[PRmerger]

No. Life is full of things that I wouldn’t do again that I don’t regret. Youthful fashion choices come to mind. I would NEVER jump out of another airplane, but I’m so glad I did it once.

Ah. So if you were given the choice, now that you know what you know, and could go back in time, you would still do everything the same way.

But you’ve done it, and don’t need to do it again.

You got intimate with someone you didn’t really care for, and found it not that great so you don’t need to do it again?

 

[edwest2]

True.

Not all women are shy blushing virgins with ultra delicate sensibilities who are sexually virtuous by default. I am definitely not one but I refuse to sleep around due to the risk which is unacceptably high for me.

We should shed this Victorian stereotype.

What does the time period have to do with anything? Bad behavior on the part of some men does not give women permission to act out this same behavior. There is an STD epidemic going on in the United States. It seems people don’t know or don’t care. Also, should they find the body of a young woman somewhere, who knows who she was with? Does it matter? When I see such behavior modeled on TV or in the movies as neutral or good or fun, I have to wonder how this affects people. Usually, there are no negative consequences shown. It’s as if sex has become equivalent to using a toilet for some.

For Christians and all men of good will, self-control should be taught as a good thing.

Ed

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Ah. So if you were given the choice, now that you know what you know, and could go back in time, you would still do everything the same way.

But you’ve done it, and don’t need to do it again.

You got intimate with someone you didn’t really care for, and found it not that great so you don’t need to do it again?

I would still do everything the same.

I don’t know what I would do I going forward. I enjoyed that phase of life, but I don’t know if I would be more interested in dating than casually hooking up were I single. Or, if I’d even be interested in the men who are still hooking up at this age. Or, if I would be too busy to date and just want a casual night out every now and then. No clue. All I know is I’m happily married and that’s the single best thing that’s ever happened to me.

 

[PRmerger]

I would still do everything the same.

 

[steve_b]

Ok, I’ll regret it in hell.

Just remember it’s a choice that lasts forever.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I would still do everything the same.

I don’t know what I would do I going forward. I enjoyed that phase of life, but I don’t know if I would be more interested in dating than casually hooking up were I single. Or, if I’d even be interested in the men who are still hooking up at this age. Or, if I would be too busy to date and just want a casual night out every now and then. No clue. All I know is I’m happily married and that’s the single best thing that’s ever happened to me.

Just curious, in a secular non religious way, isn’t it at all scary to go to bed with a stranger, especially after drinking? How could you discern that he wasn’t a creep, a rapist, a serial killer, had herpes, had HPV, was a sadist, was like Glen Close in Fatal Attraction, or had bad personal hygiene, or a very dirty bathroom or head lice etc?

 

[Sarcelle]

What does the time period have to do with anything? Bad behavior on the part of some men does not give women permission to act out this same behavior. There is an STD epidemic going on in the United States. It seems people don’t know or don’t care. Also, should they find the body of a young woman somewhere, who knows who she was with? Does it matter? When I see such behavior modeled on TV or in the movies as neutral or good or fun, I have to wonder how this affects people. Usually, there are no negative consequences shown. It’s as if sex has become equivalent to using a toilet for some.

For Christians and all men of good will, self-control should be taught as a good thing.

Ed

Yet there is one here who thinks that bad behavior on the part of women excuses the bad behavior of men. Women being the gatekeepers of sex and all that.

Now before you accuse me of endorsing sexually immorality on anyone’s part, let me say preemptively that I do not.

All I was stating is that women cannot be all characterized as fragile flowers or as ornaments a view prevalent in the Victorian era. In no way did I say that morality is out of fashion. I don’t know how you got that out of my post.

Obviously you have not seen or read my other posts since I say in no uncertain terms that sleeping around is risky. I see the value in abstinence and am in agreement with and live according to chastity as befitting my state in life.

 

[PRmerger]

Just curious, in a secular non religious way, isn’t it at all scary to go to bed with a stranger, especially after drinking? How could you discern that he wasn’t a creep, a rapist, a serial killer, had herpes, had HPV, was a sadist, was like Glen Close in Fatal Attraction, or had bad personal hygiene, or a very dirty bathroom or head lice etc?

Egg-zactly.

Setting aside the fact that the act of intercourse is the source of new life…it’s a literal joining of 2 bodies as one–so a literal, physical, spiritual, emotional act of uniting 2 human persons into one…

Even if we set aside that and say: I don’t view sex as any of the above. It’s just a source of an orgasm for me…

…just the fact of sharing body fluids–saliva–with someone I wouldn’t even consider drinking after in a bar, a relative stranger’s* hair particle*s touching and getting mixed in with mine. Ick.

Imagine if you were chatting with some guy in a bar and you saw a ball of hair on your lap that belongs on this stranger’s head… you’d be grossed out…yet just a few hours later, there you are getting intimate with so much more…touching that which I would never want near my body in a bar.

I just don’t get it.

 

[PRmerger]

All I was stating is that women cannot be all characterized as fragile flowers or as ornaments a view prevalent in the Victorian era.

Emmm…who was saying* that*??

 

[edwest2]

Yet there is one here who thinks that bad behavior on the part of women excuses the bad behavior of men. Women being the gatekeepers of sex and all that.

Now before you accuse me of endorsing sexually immorality on anyone’s part, let me say preemptively that I do not.

All I was stating is that women cannot be all characterized as fragile flowers or as ornaments a view prevalent in the Victorian era. In no way did I say that morality is out of fashion. I don’t know how you got that out of my post.

Obviously you have not seen or read my other posts since I say in no uncertain terms that sleeping around is risky. I see the value in abstinence and am in agreement with and live according to chastity as befitting my state in life.

That’s the trouble with the internet. It’s worse than sitting in a roomful of people with blindfolds on. Anyone can be anyone. As a moderator on another forum, I know others who respond to posts and silent lurkers read posts directed at one person to get information or a point of view.

I took issue with your Victorian era reference as I take issue with perceptions about the 21st Century by others. ‘It’s the 21st Century’ is the start of arguments for something, but rarely against. Example: “That’s still going on? Don’t they realize it’s the 21st Century!!” My thought on that is, Yeah. So what?

I do not keep track of who posts what since I never want to create a good/agreeable list and another for those I disagree with. I always try to focus only on the topic.

I did not mean to suggest you think morality is out of fashion. And I’m sorry if you took it that way. I do take issue with “We should shed this Victorian stereotype.” I dated one young lady who fell into the “proper young lady” category. Her father had sent her to ‘finishing school’ so she could learn all this. I can say that she was as close to the perfect woman that I had ever dated. Not perfect, but she made me realize, and allowed me to be, a real gentleman. None of her behavior was forced or stilted and she had a wonderful sense of humor.

Ed

 

[Sarcelle]

That’s the trouble with the internet. It’s worse than sitting in a roomful of people with blindfolds on. Anyone can be anyone. As a moderator on another forum, I know others who respond to posts and silent lurkers read posts directed at one person to get information or a point of view.

I took issue with your Victorian era reference as I take issue with perceptions about the 21st Century by others. ‘It’s the 21st Century’ is the start of arguments for something, but rarely against. Example: “That’s still going on? Don’t they realize it’s the 21st Century!!” My thought on that is, Yeah. So what?

I do not keep track of who posts what since I never want to create a good/agreeable list and another for those I disagree with. I always try to focus only on the topic.

I did not mean to suggest you think morality is out of fashion. And I’m sorry if you took it that way. I do take issue with “We should shed this Victorian stereotype.” I dated one young lady who fell into the “proper young lady” category. Her father had sent her to ‘finishing school’ so she could learn all this. I can say that she was as close to the perfect woman that I had ever dated. Not perfect, but she made me realize, and allowed me to be, a real gentleman. None of her behavior was forced or stilted and she had a wonderful sense of humor.

Ed

Okay.

Overall we are in agreement.

Let me add that I hold to the idea that right and wrong do not go in and out of fashion.

 

[Lea101]

That’s the trouble with the internet. It’s worse than sitting in a roomful of people with blindfolds on. Anyone can be anyone. As a moderator on another forum, I know others who respond to posts and silent lurkers read posts directed at one person to get information or a point of view.

I took issue with your Victorian era reference as I take issue with perceptions about the 21st Century by others. ‘It’s the 21st Century’ is the start of arguments for something, but rarely against. Example: “That’s still going on? Don’t they realize it’s the 21st Century!!” My thought on that is, Yeah. So what?

I do not keep track of who posts what since I never want to create a good/agreeable list and another for those I disagree with. I always try to focus only on the topic.

I did not mean to suggest you think morality is out of fashion. And I’m sorry if you took it that way. I do take issue with “We should shed this Victorian stereotype.” I dated one young lady who fell into the “proper young lady” category. Her father had sent her to ‘finishing school’ so she could learn all this. I can say that she was as close to the perfect woman that I had ever dated. Not perfect, but she made me realize, and allowed me to be, a real gentleman. None of her behavior was forced or stilted and she had a wonderful sense of humor.

Ed

I think she just meant that some people have this mindset that all girls are like that, not that it’s wrong to be that way. Many men/other women think all women are proper young ladies who aren’t promiscuous. Some even go as far to think that they don’t enjoy sex/struggle with lust. And although it would be wonderful if we girls are all “proper young women”, it’s not the ‘default’ setting. I hope I make sense

 

[Sarcelle]

I think she just meant that some people have this mindset that all girls are like that, not that it’s wrong to be that way. Many men/other women think all women are proper young ladies who aren’t promiscuous. Some even go as far to think that they don’t enjoy sex/struggle with lust. And although it would be wonderful if we girls are all “proper young women”, it’s not the ‘default’ setting. I hope I make sense

Ed is right though. We all could use “finishing schools” or maybe just a basic course in etiquette. This goes for both men and women.

There seems to be a general trend in our society to glorify the vulgar which is disturbing.

 

[Lea101]

Ed is right though. We all could use “finishing schools” or maybe just a basic course in etiquette. This goes for both men and women.

There seems to be a general trend in our society to glorify the vulgar which is disturbing.

Yeah, I know. My point is that it’s not the “default” system, we have to be taught (or in the past, shamed) into being proper women.

My school (catholic girl’s sch) actually had a compulsory workshop. It taught us how to dress properly, apply makeup tastefully, sit/walk/talk properly, how to eat without looking like a deranged animal, etc. After that, we had to do community service work and go on nature trails to learn about the environment. It was very fun for me, and I liked how they also focused on personality although nobody took it seriously

I feel if all schools were to do that, however, there would be some sort of protest, for some strange reason.

 

[edwest2]

Ed is right though. We all could use “finishing schools” or maybe just a basic course in etiquette. This goes for both men and women.

There seems to be a general trend in our society to glorify the vulgar which is disturbing.

That’s all I’m saying.

Ed

 

[Javan]

I can’t imagine getting naked before someone I had no commitment to, sharing a very, very intimate act, (not to mention exchanging body fluids with–ick!)…and not regretting it.

I can’t imagine stripping myself before someone whom I wouldn’t reveal some other confidential thing to.

Getting naked isn’t technically required. I knew some women in college who only ever wore skirts/dresses on nights they expected might end hooking up with someone, for ‘easy access’.

 

[EasterJoy]

Getting naked isn’t technically required. I knew some women in college who only ever wore skirts/dresses on nights they expected might end hooking up with someone, for ‘easy access’.

I had a friend who lived in the San Francisco Bay Area all the way back during the “Summer of Love.” He said women routinely went to bars literally with a little overnight bag packed. There was no question why they were in the bars. All made possible by The Pill, let’s be honest.

The pendulum swung with blinding speed from a believed-to-be-universal pretense concerning the way all “nice young ladies” and “decent young gentlemen” acted–which unfortunately shamed and shunned those caught doing otherwise in a hypocritical way that ranged from uncharitable to cruel–all the way to a full-on hook up culture that presumed universal oral birth control with abortion as a back-up. Let’s face it again: It took AIDS to boost the prevalence of barrier methods of birth control among those who divorced sex from marriage entirely.

Sexual sin is older than the written word. It has been rare when this temptation has been dealt with in a way that shuns the sins but not the sinners or their innocent-but-unfortunate offspring. Either the sinner–usually the woman alone, as she was so often left to bear the child alone, even when she gave no consent to the sin, alas–has been condemned or else the sin has been denied as anything sinful or minimized as a “victimless” matter. Such is life in this vale of tears.

 

[ThePCWife]

I had a friend who lived in the San Francisco Bay Area all the way back during the “Summer of Love.” He said women routinely went to bars literally with a little overnight bag packed. There was no question why they were in the bars. All made possible by The Pill, let’s be honest.

The pendulum swung with blinding speed from a believed-to-be-universal pretense concerning the way all “nice young ladies” and “decent young gentlemen” acted–which unfortunately shamed and shunned those caught doing otherwise in a hypocritical way that ranged from uncharitable to cruel–all the way to a full-on hook up culture that presumed universal oral birth control with abortion as a back-up. Let’s face it again: It took AIDS to boost the prevalence of barrier methods of birth control among those who divorced sex from marriage entirely.

Sexual sin is older than the written word. It has been rare when this temptation has been dealt with in a way that shuns the sins but not the sinners or their innocent-but-unfortunate offspring. Either the sinner–usually the woman alone, as she was so often left to bear the child alone, even when she gave no consent to the sin, alas–has been condemned or else the sin has been denied as anything sinful or minimized as a “victimless” matter. Such is life in this vale of tears.

The girls with the little paper bags of toiletries predate The Pill. There are references in 1940s and 1950s literature and obliquely in some films from those decades.

 

[EasterJoy]

The girls with the little paper bags of toiletries predate The Pill. There are references in 1940s and 1950s literature and obliquely in some films from those decades.

This is true, but there was an explosion of this at that time.

The epidemiologits are saying there is, unfortuantely, a new explosion coming with young people who see HIV as a treatable disease. When there was something to fear, it put the brakes on at least some people. When there is less to fear, well, many of us go through a phase of life when we really do believe we are young enough and special enough that life’s rules do not apply to us.

It is not as if divine law were arbitrary. The hook-up culture is extremely damaging. Secular sources have started calling it the “rape culture,” because of how often there is this sense of entitlement that a night spent in someone’s company implies a promise to have sex as a concluding event. They’re not even bothering to blame it on choice of clothing, any more. It is more: “You had to know what I wanted. I gave you all the signals. I never acted like someone who strikes out. How* dare you* waste my time if you weren’t going to consent to what you knew I wanted?”