What the proper way for a Catholic to show their love for the Turkish culture?

[Aydan]

What can I wear to the Catholic Church that would be acceptable and not offend other Catholics but at the same time would allow me to express my love for the Turkish culture? After the discussion on the board I know the hijab is not the way to do that so I will no longer be wearing it at all. But I would especially like to ask those of you were so critical of me what can I wear there would be acceptable and still allow me to show my pride for the Turkish culture?

 

[ljahns]

My only thought would be to buy a scarf in those beautiful turkish fabrics and wear that as a prayer veil. I don’t see how that could offend anyone. I don’t know why anyone would be offended by you wearing a hijab in the first place. Some that I’ve seen are very beutiful.

Some people seem to equate the mandatory wearing of the hijab with repression. I can see their point up to a point. Done voluntarily and for the right reasons it’s a sign of respect. Many people seem to forget that women wearing veils in church was mandatory for centuries. I think it very feminine and attractive.

But then, that’s only my opinion.

 

[Aydan]

well to put it mildly many Catholics are offended because of course it is most often associated with Islam rather than Christianity naturally so it causes much strife because some Catholics say that it will lead to a scandal in the church soit’s not even worth doing it. I’d rather find another way to doing that is not so offensive or confusing for everyone. Anyway Thanks.

My only thought would be to buy a scarf in those beautiful turkish fabrics and wear that as a prayer veil. I don’t see how that could offend anyone. I don’t know why anyone would be offended by you wearing a hijab in the first place. Some that I’ve seen are very beutiful.

Some people seem to equate the mandatory wearing of the hijab with repression. I can see their point up to a point. Done voluntarily and for the right reasons it’s a sign of respect. Many people seem to forget that women wearing veils in church was mandatory for centuries. I think it very feminine and attractive.

But then, that’s only my opinion.

 

[Eden]

Do you mean the culture of the Ottoman Empire or the culture of post-Ataturk Turkey? After the Republic of Turkey was proclaimed in 1923, Sharia law was abolished, Islam was suppressed and madrassas were closed, western dress was encouraged in favor of traditional costumes, and the Western Calendar (as opposed the lunar 19 year Islamic system) was introduced. So, wearing the hijab would not be showing your love for Turkish history, but your love of Islam. You look more like a modern Turkish woman without an hijab.

By the way, I was thinking about Turkey’s entry for Eurovision in 2007 and I remembered (correctly) none of the women in the video were wearing the hijab:

youtube.com/watch?v=UnX_2sknF6s

 

[Aydan]

Post Atatrk in this case because again I think people would associate the Ottoman Empire with Islam. I got accused of being an impostor Catholic for wanting to wear the hijab nothing can be worse than being a devout Catholic and being called that believe me. And it wasn’t even any one in my parish it was people here.

Do you mean the culture of the Ottoman Empire or the culture of post-Ataturk Turkey? After the Republic of Turkey was proclaimed in 1923, Sharia law was abolished, Islam was suppressed and madrassas were closed, western dress was encouraged in favor of traditional costumes, and the Western Calendar (as opposed the lunar 19 year Islamic system) was introduced. So, wearing the hijab would not be showing your love for Turkish history, but your love of Islam. You look more like a modern Turkish woman without an hijab.

By the way, I was thinking about Turkey’s entry for Eurovision in 2007 and I remembered (correctly) none of the women in the video were wearing the hijab:

youtube.com/watch?v=UnX_2sknF6s

 

[Aydan]

oops I’ve neglected to addres the rest of your post. Okay here’s what I’m trying to do. I’m not trying to look Turkish really but I am an American learning the Turkish that Ataturk founded I love the Turkish language and modern Turkey I absolutely love Ataurk himself also. although it’s pretty moot at this point because I’m not going to do that I chose the hijab because the ones I saw were beautiful. But obviously I have to find a better way to do this because like you say I’m not trying to show my love for Islam I’m trying to show my love for Turkey and Ataturk. And I’m just not sure how to go about doing that in a proper way that will not offend people I just want to show my pride in Turkey and all things Turkish. But what I’m looking for is something that is undoubtedly associated with Turkey and will show off my love and respect me for it. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Post Atatrk in this case because again I think people would associate the Ottoman Empire with Islam. I got accused of being an impostor Catholic for wanting to wear the hijab nothing can be worse than being a devout Catholic and being called that believe me. And it wasn’t even any one in my parish it was people here.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

What can I wear to the Catholic Church that would be acceptable and not offend other Catholics but at the same time would allow me to express my love for the Turkish culture? After the discussion on the board I know the hijab is not the way to do that so I will no longer be wearing it at all. But I would especially like to ask those of you were so critical of me what can I wear there would be acceptable and still allow me to show my pride for the Turkish culture?

You have the right to wear a head-covering of whatever sort in Church (Catholic) which isn’t anti-Catholic in nature.

I’m rather confused. Will you be IN TURKEY, or are you actually of “cultural turkish extraction” (your people are from Turkey) and you want to show appreciation for your Turkish (and Catholic) heritage in non-Turkish Catholic Churches, or are you of non-Turkish heritage and just REALLY LIKE Turkish culture and want to be, as it were, “Turkish in spirit” (while remaining thoroughly Catholic) and wear Turkish fashions?

What distinguishes a “hijab” from a head-scarf? It’s not a religious badge unless the wearer considers it a religous badge.

Catholics shouldn’t “look down on” the local cultural dress, unless it is immodest or otherwise evil-in-itself (somehow)!

Don’t pay much attention to our “you gotta look just like ME!” brethren in their nonsensical disapproval of the wonderful variety of our universiality in being Catholic.

 

[Aydan]

okay this is a bit complicated so I will my best to explain it. I am not in Turkey I’m not going to Turkey because I’m physically not able to go because I’m in a wheelchair and they don’t have wheelchair access there I’m not an ethnic Turk. I just fell in love with the culture in the language after my buddy went to Turkey to learn the language. When he got back he introduced me to it. Anyway I REALLY LOVE turkey. And because I cannot go I’m looking for some way I can show that here in other words I’m trying to have a little piece of Turkey for myself since I cannot physically travel there.

You have the right to wear a head-covering of whatever sort in Church (Catholic) which isn’t anti-Catholic in nature.

I’m rather confused. Will you be IN TURKEY, or are you actually of “cultural turkish extraction” (your people are from Turkey) and you want to show appreciation for your Turkish (and Catholic) heritage in non-Turkish Catholic Churches, or are you of non-Turkish heritage and just REALLY LIKE Turkish culture and want to be, as it were, “Turkish in spirit” (while remaining thoroughly Catholic) and wear Turkish fashions?

What distinguishes a “hijab” from a head-scarf? It’s not a religious badge unless the wearer considers it a religous badge.

Catholics shouldn’t “look down on” the local cultural dress, unless it is immodest or otherwise evil-in-itself (somehow)!

Don’t pay much attention to our “you gotta look just like ME!” brethren in their nonsensical disapproval of the wonderful variety of our universiality in being Catholic.

 

[Kaninchen]

okay this is a bit complicated so I will my best to explain it. I am not in Turkey I’m not going to Turkey because I’m physically not able to go because I’m in a wheelchair and they don’t have wheelchair access there I’m not an ethnic Turk. I just fell in love with the culture in the language after my buddy went to Turkey to learn the language. When he got back he introduced me to it. Anyway I REALLY LOVE turkey. And because I cannot go I’m looking for some way I can show that here in other words I’m trying to have a little piece of Turkey for myself since I cannot physically travel there.

One of the best ways I’ve found of keeping in touch with Italian and German daily life and news would apply to countries like Turkey as well - listen to their radio online, it’s also possible that some television programs are available as well. You just choose which genres of music, for example, you like best and regularly tune-in.

 

[Aydan]

oh yes thank you I do that on regular base I have lots of Turkishmusic and stuff like that. What I meant was I want to be able to integrate my faith with my love for Turkish. You see right now I feel like I’m being asked to choose between being a faithful Catholic and suppressing my love for Turkey. My experiences on here have made me feel as though I have an either/or choice either I suppressed my love for Turkey and remain Catholic or not feel welcome in the Catholic Church anymore. And my it experiences on here with this issue had made me feel as if I’m not even welcome in the church because they’re questioning whether I’m even a faithful Catholic or they’re calling me an impostor who is only in the church for the purpose of trying to convert peopleover to Islam. So I don’t even feel welcome in the church anymore.

One of the best ways I’ve found of keeping in touch with Italian and German daily life and news would apply to countries like Turkey as well - listen to their radio online, it’s also possible that some television programs are available as well. You just choose which genre’s of music, for example, you like best and regularly tune-in.

 

[Kaninchen]

oh yes thank you I do that on regular base I have lots of church music and stuff like that. What I meant was I want to be able to integrate my faith with my love for Turkish. You see right now I feel like I’m being asked to choose between being a faithful Catholic and suppressing my love for Turkey. My experiences on here have made me feel as though I have an either/or choice either I suppressed my love for Turkey and remain Catholic or not feel welcome in the Catholic Church anymore. And my it experiences on here with this issue had made me feel as if I’m not even welcome in the church because they’re questioning whether I’m even a faithful Catholic or they’re calling me an impostor who is only in the church for the purpose of trying to convert over to Islam. So I don’t even feel welcome in the church anymore.

I’m Jewish but have always loved Italy and things Italian (I’m from a German/Italian Jewish background) but nobody’s ever confused that with me being even vaguely Catholic.

Are posters CAF a microcosm of Catholic life and attitudes? I’d have to say I would find that thought rather depressing (!) but posters on message boards tend not to be ‘middle-ground’ sorts of people.

 

[Aydan]

I’m not sure about that I can tell you one thing before I joined the board no one ever ever questioned my faith or my commitment to my faith. You want to hear something really funny they have a bunch of Turkish Jewish jewelry but they don’t have a lot of Christian stuff as a matter of fact there’s a whole web site dedicated to Turkish Jewish jewelry. You would be all set!

I’m Jewish but have always loved Italy and things Italian (I’m from a German/Italian Jewish background) but nobody’s ever confused that with me being even vaguely Catholic.

Are posters CAF a microcosm of Catholic life and attitudes? I’d have to say I would find that thought rather depressing (!) but posters on message boards tend not to be ‘middle-ground’ sorts of people.

 

[Kaninchen]

I’m not sure about that I can tell you one thing before I joined the board no one ever ever questioned my faith or my commitment to my faith.

I’ve often wondered how Pope Benedict would get on here! Possibly get himself suspended

You want to hear something really funny they have a bunch of Turkish Jewish jewelry but they don’t have a lot of Christian stuff as a matter of fact there’s a whole web site dedicated to Turkish Jewish jewelry. You would be all set!

Well, very large numbers of Jews lived relatively peacefully under Ottoman rule for centuries.

 

[Aydan]

yeah so Didthe Christians until the Crusades started pretty sad really I just wish all religions to live in peace.

I’ve often wondered how Pope Benedict would get on here! Possibly get himself suspended

Well, very large numbers of Jews lived relatively peacefully under Ottoman rule for centuries.

 

[Aydan]

actually I think most people would like the Pope because there are a lot of traditionalists on the board. but hey you never can tell he might get suspended

yeah so Didthe Christians until the Crusades started pretty sad really I just wish all religions to live in peace.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

okay this is a bit complicated so I will my best to explain it. I am not in Turkey I’m not going to Turkey because I’m physically not able to go because I’m in a wheelchair and they don’t have wheelchair access there I’m not an ethnic Turk. I just fell in love with the culture in the language after my buddy went to Turkey to learn the language. When he got back he introduced me to it. Anyway I REALLY LOVE turkey. And because I cannot go I’m looking for some way I can show that here in other words I’m trying to have a little piece of Turkey for myself since I cannot physically travel there.

Ah! Very cool indeed!

Wear Turkish jewelry, and clothes, and perfumes, and serve and drink their coffee, and listen to their (non-anti-Catholic) music, and speak their language alternatively with your native tongue as if translating yourself, and expound on the amazing wonders of Turkey while not being anti-Catholic, and preferably while being vehemently PRO-Turkish-Catholic!

Don’t be defensive about your love of Turkey! Some people don’t understand that “Catholic” doesn’t mean “just like me”. It means “universally human” where all non-anti-Catholic cultural “things” are to be gloried in!

 

[Rolltide]

I am also a Catholic that loves Turkey and its people. While I was in college, my best friend was Turkish, and he lived down the hall from me. Since he could not afford to travel home during breaks, I would always invite him to stay with my family and I, because the dorms closed. I have relatives all over the country, and so over the years, we took him to see many different parts of the country (Minneapolis, San Francisco, Orlando, Phoenix, Chicago…). Later, he invited my whole family to come and visit him in Turkey. My entire family, plus my first cousin all went. We first took an organized tour of Turkey for 14 days, visiting most of the major sites in the country. Then, we stayed an additional 9 days with his family in Istanbul. It was the most memorable trip of my life, and the fascinating history that I learned while there spurred my love for the subject (and for travel) and put me on the path to being a history professor as a career. Perhaps my favorite moment of the trip took place 16 years ago today, on the Fourth of July. We were sitting on the balcony at his parent’s apartment, overlooking the Bosphorous Strait on a beautiful evening, watching the ships go up and down the waterway, when huge fireworks began to fire off. We joked, “How appropriate”, until my friends dad informed me that the US Secretary of State was in town, and the government was actually having a genuine Fourth of July celebration for him. So there we sat, watching the fireworks explode over Hagia Sophia, one of the world’s greatest Christian sites, in what ended up being a meeting of US and Turkish culture not just at the national level, but at the personal level too.

So, what could you wear to represent Turkish culture? Well, my mom and cousin had to buy silk head scarves in order to be able to tour the Blue Mosque. It is only required for women to wear them inside of mosques in Turkey, which I don’t think is unreasonable, since even the Vatican has a dress code. However, the beautiful silk scarves are actually more popular as shoulder wraps, and even many young people wear them as a fashion statement. Turkey also has some fabulous gold and leather work, so you might be able to find something distinctive. Also, even though you might not be able to purchase a Turkish carpet (which could exceed $40,000), Turkish kilims are a type of woven rug not unlike a Navajo rug, and they run between $100 and $400. They make a beautiful addition and a distinctive statement in any room.

I’ll see if I can think of any other suggestions tonight…

 

[bpbasilphx]

A big part of Turkish culture is the persecution and suppression of Christianity. Only the Ecumenical Patriarch was allowed to wear cassock and riassa on the street. No other clergyman, priest or bishop, was so permitted, or is so permitted today.

It took DECADES to get the Turkish government to allow the restoration and remodelling of the Patriarchal headquarters. And the seminary at Halki was closed by the government years ago.

This is what you want to show love for?

 

[Navarricano]

A big part of Turkish culture is the persecution and suppression of Christianity. Only the Ecumenical Patriarch was allowed to wear cassock and riassa on the street. No other clergyman, priest or bishop, was so permitted, or is so permitted today.

It took DECADES to get the Turkish government to allow the restoration and remodelling of the Patriarchal headquarters. And the seminary at Halki was closed by the government years ago.

This is what you want to show love for?

That’s not fair, not any more than saying to someone who wanted to show their love for and appreciation of American culture in some way, “America permits the slaughter of 1.6 million babies per year through abortion, is that what you want to show love for?”

There are serious problems in Turkey vis-a-vis religious freedom and discrimination,and many other issue, just as there are in many countries. This does not mean that Turkish culture is evil, or that its culture is without any value at all.

To Aydan: have you explored any of the cultural expressions of Turkey’s native Christian minority? What are some of their traditions and cultural expressions? How do they reconcile their Christianity and Turkishness? I don’t have any information about these things, but perhaps you could start there?

I understand what it’s like to fall in love with another culture and language, as well as the enourmous satisfaction that comes from immersing yourself in it. The experience is marvellous and enormously enriching. God bless you.

 

[elts1956]

What can I wear to the Catholic Church that would be acceptable and not offend other Catholics but at the same time would allow me to express my love for the Turkish culture? After the discussion on the board I know the hijab is not the way to do that so I will no longer be wearing it at all. But I would especially like to ask those of you were so critical of me what can I wear there would be acceptable and still allow me to show my pride for the Turkish culture?

Hello Aydan. I googled hijab because I wasn’t certain what it was. I found this website that shows women wearing different hijabs and they are just beautiful. youtube.com/watch?v=WmeRG6WIoKQ&feature=related

Funny, in my younger days when my date would show up with a convertable, I would wear a scarf just like that. I just didn’t know I was wearing a hijab. What about a bracelet or pendant so you can fool all those who judge a person by how they are dressed?