What Theological Contributions Have Protestants Made?

[Randy_Carson]

I don’t believe Randy thinks he’s better than anyone else. However, it’s been his experience as a Protestant turned Catholic that Catholicism is far better than Protestantism in every way.

Actually, there are some ways in which Protestants have us hopelessly outclassed.

I think that’s what he was trying to communicate with this thread, but…well, I don’t think an attempt to demonstrate the worthlessness and bankruptcy of Protestantism was such a great place to start.

There was no attempt to demonstrate anything. I asked a question hoping for some answers.

I’m sure he’ll come back to this thread and look at it every once in awhile, and I suspect that he will come to the conclusion that when he started this thread and thought it was a good idea, that was not his best moment.

If I’m only going to come back to this thread “every once in a while”, then that should be evidence that A) there was no "set up from the beginning’ as some have alleged, and B) that I was not planning on demonstrating anything.

However, the inside reference was noted.

For the most part, though, Randy has really good moments. This kind of thing is the exception, not the rule. I don’t think he’s self-righteous and he makes a consistent effort to avoid being snarky. This one just happened to be a not-so-great choice. He’s had this type of attitude toward Protestantism ever since some Catholic managed to convince him that Protestantism was worthless and he should leave it- which is, imo, one of the most unfortunate ways to convert/revert in either direction- but he’s usually doesn’t make that so readily apparent.

There was no Catholic in my life to convince me of the truth of Catholicism; I came to this conclusion by reasoning some things out on my own by the grace and mercy of God. However, I am curious as to what you might say are less “unfortunate ways to conver/revert in either direction”? IOW, what would be a legitimate reason for someone to become a Catholic in your opinion?

A couple of recommendations for you, Randy. The first is an explanation followed by a discussion involving statements from Francis Beckwith and whoever happens to comment on this page.
insidecatholic.com/Joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4911&Itemid=48

Beckwith went from Catholic to Evangelical to Catholic and now defends calling himself both Evangelical and Catholic. You may be able to learn something from his appreciation for what he most recently left behind.

This web.mac.com/jayscottnewman/Site/Evangelical_Catholicism.html contains a bit more detail from Beckwith.

This second link has to do with Chris Castaldo, a former Catholic who became an Evangelical. He, too, shows a great deal of appreciation for what he left behind.
chriscastaldo.com/endorsements.php
You may notice that Beckwith recommends this book. It’s highly unusual to see a former Evangelical turned Catholic giving a ringing endorsement for a book (even if tempered by acknowledgment of noteworthy disagreement) written by a former Catholic turned Evangelical. This is the kind of thing you should seek to emulate rather than scorn.
This jimhamilton.wordpress.com/2009/11/18/chris-castaldos-holy-ground/ contains a bit more detail on Castaldo’s book.

I am somewhat familiar with Beckwith’s story (along with those of Koons and numerous other high-profile converts in the past few years). However, I have printed out this article, and I will read it carefully. I will also look at the links to Castaldo’s book. Thanks for these.

 

[O.S.Luke]

Randy, a few folks here have pointed the “baiting” out, along with a fellow Catholic. If you aren’t willing to see that, I doubt you are willing to see the contributions that have been pointed out, either.

If this is your tactic at converting people to Catholicism, I’d say you might ought to try another tack. Just my opinion, though. It comes across as arrogant and depreciating.

I am very happy that you found a home in the Catholic church.

O+

 

[Justy90]

I recall reading a thread here recently where a gentleman’s underage grand daughter was impregnated by her non denominational pastor, it appears that sin is committed regardless of church affiliation.

Hmmm, did that non-denominational church also have 107 convicted sexual abusers against children like the Catholic church?

Do you remember the Salem witch trials? Sure seems like the protestants own version of the inquisition.

Yay, you read some Scripture. The splinter and the log anology goes a long way to show how Catholics point the finger at homosexuality but yet have been shown to be the largest closet club for gay men in history. They swept abusing minor children sexually for decades under the rug and have the audacity to call those who sued for damages opportunistic and sinful. Talk about the splinter and the log.

 

[Justy90]

It’s good to see that you protest the same faults and failings within Protestantism with the same fervour!..or maybe not!

You do not, because you are biased against Catholicism and protesting against Protestants doesn’t really “mean” much…because there is an ‘expectancy’ of their failings! Why? Because, somehow, they are not held to the same level as Catholics! Why? Because The Church teaches and HOLDS to the highest morals for the whole world and when Her members fall…they fall from a ‘greater’ height!

Every charge in your post is a thousand-fold within Protestantism every decade, yet not newsworthy beyond locality, for that very reason.

I do not deny the fallen members of The Church for She is full of sinners trying their best to run their race!..but you really ought to rethink your biases.

Oppression of Rome?!! You of course refer to The Roman Catholic Church!

Newsflash! She is still the same now as She was then! What she does is define matters of faith, conclusively, absolutely!..then those who do not like it or disagree, leave or refuse to submit and choose to remain in protest; right about there, is where you live, at the moment.

Enough with the same old worn out rhetoric. This is no more believable now than it was years ago.

 

[Justy90]

I find it troubling that you would list 3 men with vastly conflicting teachings as having great contributions. Luther, Calvin and Barth hold opposing positions on issues such as salvation, baptism, the Eucharist, Marian Theology and many others.

It seems that the main contributions of these men separating and dividing instead of uniting the body of Christ. Somehow, I don’t thin God will look kindly at these “contributions”.

You are uncharitable and downright rude. You also cannot prove what you assert.

 

[tweetymom]

You are uncharitable and downright rude. You also cannot prove what you assert.

:tiphat:

 

[kimmielittle]

Hiyas Randy

After reading your explanation…I owe you an apology. I do so now. I am truly sorry

 

[Deconi]

Enough with the same old worn out rhetoric. This is no more believable now than it was years ago.

Eureka!

What you need now, is a mirror. Perhaps then you’d see how ‘we’ see you.

 

[izoid]

Yay, you read some Scripture. The splinter and the log anology goes a long way to show how Catholics point the finger at homosexuality but yet have been shown to be the largest closet club for gay men in history. They swept abusing minor children sexually for decades under the rug and have the audacity to call those who sued for damages opportunistic and sinful. Talk about the splinter and the log.

THe Church has never condoned homosexual behavior. Can you say the same for tcertain protestant denominations?

It seems that you have a pattern of pointing fingers without ever looking in the mirror.

 

[izoid]

You are uncharitable and downright rude. You also cannot prove what you assert.

So it is uncharitable and rude to point out that 3 men have conflicting theology? I would challenge you to look back at your posts regarding abuses and tell me who it is that is rude.

 

[Dokimas]

I went to a dynamic Protestant evangelical church while in college…and some others…they tended to focus on the Old Testament for faith lessons as they had no saints for the past 2,000 years as good witnesses of the Gospel…

Pretty much alone with the Bible.

Not sure what church you went to or what history you have read. There’s lots and lots of NT saints who’s live have witnessed for the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Let me give you just one - Richard Wurbrand. sermonindex.net/modules/myvideo/photo.php?lid=635

 

[Justy90]

THe Church has never condoned homosexual behavior. Can you say the same for tcertain protestant denominations?

It seems that you have a pattern of pointing fingers without ever looking in the mirror.

That’s a pretty weak thing to say in light of the decades of sexual abuse against minor boys in your church. The Catholic church doesn’t condone abortion or divorce but there are plenty of Catholics who are guilty of those things too. Talk is cheap and everyone knows it.

 

[Justy90]

So it is uncharitable and rude to point out that 3 men have conflicting theology? I would challenge you to look back at your posts regarding abuses and tell me who it is that is rude.

It’s smug and snarky to demean and degrade those who have clearly made great contributions to Christianity just because they are not Catholic.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

well, let’s see. their difamations against the CC has turned many away from the Church. they have influenced many including Clergy to simplify the Worship for their sake. they have influenced many Clergy to strip down the Church from its form and arts. they have influenced many to stop believing in the Saints and in the Holy Mother. make no mistake, although we think is because you dont know any better that we should see that those who dont know what they are doing that they indeed can be of great danger to the Catholic Church.

So are these people still considered “Catholic”?

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

I recall reading a thread here recently where a gentleman’s underage grand daughter was impregnated by her non denominational pastor, it appears that sin is committed regardless of church affiliation.

Do you remember the Salem witch trials? Sure seems like the protestants own version of the inquisition.

How about the Anglican church ordaining women and performing homosexual marriages, I can’t find that in the Bible for the life of me.

You see, you like to point out the sins of men within the Catholic Church while ignoring those of the protestant denominations to which you support. Didn’t Jesus say something about this? I remember something about a splinter and a log.

I hate to say this but I agree with IZIOD , those who abuse children infect all churches not just the Catholic church. where I part ways with IZIOD is that the unfortunate histories are comparable as we base our authority on the Word of God and not a singular apostolic succession. So my church, the church that Jesus started, has never killed anyone.

 

[wisdomseeker]

So are these people still considered “Catholic”?

Catholics are those who believe in the Truth tought by the Church. those who turned against the Church are simply enemies of the Church.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

It always amazes me how folks like you accuses the CC of doing these things.

tell me, what happened to the Catholics in England during 1600s through this day. do you remember? history tells us how Catholics were burned to the stake by your kings and people. do you remember the history of Catholics being dragged by your people down in the streets with their bellies cut out? and they didnt even do anything, this happened to them just because they refused to give up their Catholic Church. there is so much horrors that Catholics had indure in England just because they were Catholics. not mention the beautifull Churches that were taking from the Catholics. as you see you can take our Churches, you can kill us, but what you cannot do is take away our Faith given to us by our Lord. you cannot steal the title of the Church either. all you can do is try, but you will not succeed.

** " There are many other things which keep me in the bosom of the Catholic Church – the unanimity of peoples and nations keeps me here, her authority, inaugurated in miracles, nourished by hope, augmented by love and confirmed by her age, keeps me here. The succession of priests from the very seat of the Apostle Peter up to the present episcopate keeps me here and last, the very name of Catholic, which not without reason belongs to this Church alone in the face of so many heretics, so much so that although all heretics want to be called Catholic, when a stranger inquires where a Catholic Church meets, not one of the heretics would dare point out his own basilica or meeting place. The name of the Catholic Church is peculiar to the true Church." ** St Augustine.

Yes these things are horrible and that is why we should reject any authority that caused them.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

Actually, there are some ways in which Protestants have us hopelessly outclassed.

.

Well aree you willing to share some of these ways?

 

[wisdomseeker]

Yes these things are horrible and that is why we should reject any authority that caused them.

Except you cannot reject the authority of the CC. the Church built, commanded, and sent by Christ. one simply can not go on building congregations in the name of Jesus when Jesus already has sent us One Church to teach and to send others to teach the Word of God to all men. Apostolic Succession.

the problem here is that people think that those who left the Church are entittled to go and build their own churches thinking they can do better than One Church Christ built. man made churches will never succeed that One which Christ built. some believe that once they leave, they take the Church with them. or even believe God will follow them instead of them following Christ. we dont come to our Lord telling Him that we have rights. we have no rights before our God. we simply obey. martin luther left the Church and claim the right to be an authority which was not given to him destroying the lives of many Catholics and Churches, and so did henry VIII, and so did many others. but the Church lives on according to the promise of our Lord. “I will be with you until the end of the time.” what a beautifull promise.

** " There are many other things which keep me in the bosom of the Catholic Church – the unanimity of peoples and nations keeps me here, her authority, inaugurated in miracles, nourished by hope, augmented by love and confirmed by her age, keeps me here. The succession of priests from the very seat of the Apostle Peter up to the present episcopate keeps me here and last, the very name of Catholic, which not without reason belongs to this Church alone in the face of so many heretics, so much so that although all heretics want to be called Catholic, when a stranger inquires where a Catholic Church meets, not one of the heretics would dare point out his own basilica or meeting place. The name of the Catholic Church is peculiar to the true Church." St Augustine**.

 

[MyRdmrLvs]

So it is uncharitable and rude to point out that 3 men have conflicting theology? I would challenge you to look back at your posts regarding abuses and tell me who it is that is rude.

It is not rude to point out that we, both Catholic and protestant have failed to protect children and it is not rude to insist that we must all do better in the future. this sort of thing does not stop by people being silent, silence is exactly what the abusers of children want. I think if we are willing to set aside our theological differences for a moment. this is one topic we should be strongly united on.