What title do I use

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Philothea53

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for our new Pastor, who is the Vicar General? When I embroidered a Knights of Columbus shirt for him he asked me to put Very Reverend FirstName LastName. Do I call him Reverend LastName when addressing him verbally? I really don’t like calling a priest by his first name EVER so I always at the very least say Father LastName. I know that things are very relaxed nowadays but I don’t feel comfortable - I feel like using his first name puts him on my same level, or me on his! :confused:

Another question in the same general area - I always like to see the priest or Bishop after Mass to say “Good Morning” and to shake/touch the hands that were used in the consecration. Is it wrong to kiss the Bishop’s ring at this time and/or to genuflect (left knee?) to the Bishop at this time? :crossrc:
 
I’m really sincere in my question. Is there a reason no one is even attempting to answer? I see that there have been many viewing of the question…:confused: 🤷 :crying:
 
Philothea53 said:
for our new Pastor, who is the Vicar General? When I embroidered a Knights of Columbus shirt for him he asked me to put Very Reverend FirstName LastName. Do I call him Reverend LastName when addressing him verbally? I really don’t like calling a priest by his first name EVER so I always at the very least say Father LastName. I know that things are very relaxed nowadays but I don’t feel comfortable - I feel like using his first name puts him on my same level, or me on his! :confused:

Another question in the same general area - I always like to see the priest or Bishop after Mass to say “Good Morning” and to shake/touch the hands that were used in the consecration. Is it wrong to kiss the Bishop’s ring at this time and/or to genuflect (left knee?) to the Bishop at this time? :crossrc:
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A priest should normally be addressed as “Father Brown” or “Father Steven” if you are familiar with him and like likes informality.

Bishops are bit more difficult. Strictly they are still “my Lord” but this sounds rather silly. It is unlikely that the tradition of kissing the bishop’s ring still alive, so if you follow it you will be deliberately making the point that you think it should be revived. Maybe that is right, but don’t take offence if people disagree with you.
 
But, would it be ‘more correct’ to call him Reverend? Apparently he prefers that to Father since that is what he wanted embroidered on his shirt. I am wondering about what is proper, not necessarily what is accepted.

And I sure do appreciate your response 🙂
 
In writing it is Rev. Lastname but you address them as Father.
 
Philothea53 said:
But, would it be ‘more correct’ to call him Reverend? Apparently he prefers that to Father since that is what he wanted embroidered on his shirt. I am wondering about what is proper, not necessarily what is accepted.

And I sure do appreciate your response 🙂
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No, it isn’t more correct to call him Reverend. Call him Father Last Name, unless he invites you to call him Father First Name.

And what we call our bishops or archbishops depends on where we live. In England, it may be “my Lord” or “Your Grace,” but in the United States it’s “Your Excellency.” More often than not, they squirm a bit (though no one squirms over “Your Eminence” when they’re elevated to the cardinalate, so I’ve no idea how “excellency” became pase) and so we simply say Bishop Whatshisname.
 
If the priest is a Monsignor, many like to be addressed as Monsignor.

Vicar General isn’t a title you use in personal address. If he’s not “Monsignor” he’s “Father.”

If a Bishop is a member of your Parish team, you can address him as “Bishop Jones” or simply “Bishop” – although the super-duper correct form of address for both a Monsignor or for a Bishop would be “Your Excellency.” Do not kiss his ring if you see him all the time. That would be for a formal introduction or a formal meeting. Chances are the bishop isn’t even wearing his ring on a weekday. Actually, the ring you kiss is the ring of the Ordinary. Most bishops in parishes are not Ordinaries.

I address my confessor as “Your Excellency” – but it’s kind of a joke. Normal people say “Monsignor.”
 
If you see the bishop only on occasion, it’s fair enough to kiss the ring. Though some bishops like this and others would prefer you didn’t. If you see him regularly, I wouldn’t do it all the time.

“Very Reverend” is the formal address for a priest who hold such a position. It is what properly belongs on stationary and such. (Just as “Reverend” would for your average, run of the mill priest. But it isn’t what you would call him in everyday parlance. “Father” should be fine.
 
The formal indirect mode is “The Very Reverend Father FN LN”
The semiformal indirect mode is “Very Reverend FN LN” or “Father FN LN”

Whereas a “normal” priest would simply be “The Reverend Father FN LN” or “Reverend FN LN”

“Right Reverend” is now apparently for Abbots in office, and some other odd cases. Monsigneurs are supposed to be “Very Reverend” now, but they used to be “Right Reverend”

Direct mode for any priest who is not a bishop is “Father N” with last name being less informal than first name. Several priests choose to be informal due to wincing when people mispronounce their last names.

Archbishops are “The Most Reverend Archbishop” or “Most Reverend”, and are often addressed directly as “Your Excellency”

In all cases, it’s appropriate to drop the first name except when it would confuse (Most Reverend Francis Hurley and Most Reverend Mark Hurley, if both being referenced, you would not simply use last names. They’re brothers, BTW. And both retired.)
 
Philothea53 said:
I know that things are very relaxed nowadays but I don’t feel comfortable - I feel like using his first name puts him on my same level, or me on his! :confused:
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All of the responses you have received are correct.

But why do you feel so uncomfortable appearing to “put him on [your] same level?”

Is he a God? An angel? Even St. Paul told the early Christians to not get down in front of him because he was merely a man like them.

Priests are people like you and me. Elevating them to some supreme status makes them uncomfortable and more often than not, leads to problems.
 
Philothea53 said:
for our new Pastor, who is the Vicar General? When I embroidered a Knights of Columbus shirt for him he asked me to put Very Reverend FirstName LastName. Do I call him Reverend LastName when addressing him verbally? I really don’t like calling a priest by his first name EVER so I always at the very least say Father LastName. I know that things are very relaxed nowadays but I don’t feel comfortable - I feel like using his first name puts him on my same level, or me on his! :confused:

Another question in the same general area - I always like to see the priest or Bishop after Mass to say “Good Morning” and to shake/touch the hands that were used in the consecration. Is it wrong to kiss the Bishop’s ring at this time and/or to genuflect (left knee?) to the Bishop at this time? :crossrc:
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I thought that “Very Reverend” was reserved for a Bishop?
 
chicago said:
As do seminary rectors.

“Most Reverend” is for a bishop.

Does anyone use “Right Reverend” anymore?
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Right Rev Msgr & Very Rev Msgr were dropped after the 1968 revisions. Anybody who had the title “Right” or “Very” before 1968 can still use it. (Hardly any left, I think.) A Monsignor who oversees a deanery – a Vicar Forane – is still “Very” although it is more common for people with this title to use the initials V.F. following their name, without the “very”. Since most Monsignori already carry the papally bestowed honorary title of Monisgnor and do not toss in the “very” - enough is enough!
 
PaixGioiaAmor said:
But why do you feel so uncomfortable appearing to “put him on [your] same level?” … Priests are people like you and me. Elevating them to some supreme status makes them uncomfortable and more often than not, leads to problems.
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I don’t agree with you on this. It’s when people starting treating them ‘like you and me’ that problems started - no more collars, no more habits, calling them by their first name without their proper title - I think you are dead wrong.
 
Most of the time, you will call your pastor, Father, or Rev. Father…or even just Pastor…When you are writing his name, I would include the full title accorded to him.
 
Well, now I’m confused, too.

On our Cathedral website the Bishop’s title is The Most Reverend, the Monsingor’s title is The Reverend Monsignor, and the Parochial Vicar’s title is The Very Reverend.
 
Philothea53 said:
I don’t agree with you on this. It’s when people starting treating them ‘like you and me’ that problems started - no more collars, no more habits, calling them by their first name without their proper title - I think you are dead wrong.
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I certainly have been an advocate of recognition of the priestly role and office - and, as such, I have been an advocate of collars. I also think that it is a matter of respect to not address ANYONE by their first name. I am not a priest, but as a member of the parish staff it would be proper ettiquette to call me “Mr.”

Your original point seemed to go far beyond recognition of the pastor or associate pastor as an authority figure. If I read correctly and as you intended, it seemed that you are holding to a VERY romantic notion of who and what a priest is; in your own words, they are not just people like you and me.

They are men. Men who are someone’s son and maybe someone’s brother. They sleep. They go to the bathroom. They even struggle with some of the things that all of us do, such as lust or the compulsion to tell a lie.

A priest I talked to recently on this very topic said with a sense of frustration “They have built me up to be something that I’m not; I’m not even human to them.”

So by all means, give them respect. Address them as “Fr.” Hold them in high esteem. These things are to be encouraged. But your statement that you don’t want to treat him as though he is like you seems to miss the mark a bit.
 
Anne1964 said:
Well, now I’m confused, too.

On our Cathedral website the Bishop’s title is The Most Reverend, the Monsingor’s title is The Reverend Monsignor, and the Parochial Vicar’s title is The Very Reverend.
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TRM is a variant that is approved, according to several books I’ve read. Not common, but approved.
 
PaixGioiaAmor said:
Your original point seemed to go far beyond recognition of the pastor or associate pastor as an authority figure. If I read correctly and as you intended, it seemed that you are holding to a VERY romantic notion of who and what a priest is; in your own words, they are not just people like you and me.

So by all means, give them respect. Address them as “Fr.” Hold them in high esteem. These things are to be encouraged. But your statement that you don’t want to treat him as though he is like you seems to miss the mark a bit.
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I think you read more into it than I intended. What I said was, " I don’t feel comfortable - I feel like using his first name puts him on my same level, or me on his!" By this I meant that I am not an ordainded minister of God, I do not stand 'in persona Christi" and I do not feel as if I should be calling him anything other than the name to which he is entitled. I kind of see it as I do my kids trying to get away with call me by my first name. I’ve earned the title of “Mom” and out of respect for me, as an adult and an authority figure, I expect them to use it.
 
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