What to do about the atheist husband?

[tedfay]

However to expect the other person to automatically convert is an unfair expectation.

Would the person who has converted consider that if their partner thought they had found the truth and changedtheir faith consider they would automatically convert whatever they thought and felt about it. I doubt it.

Also how true would be conversation “for peace’s sake” or “to please my spouse, father, mother etc” or “I can’t take the pressure any longer”. Can someone be expected to make affirmations at baptism and confirmation that they do not believe. Also, if there are children involved what a bad example to them.

I agree with you. The other spouse must join the Church because he or she genuinely believes. It would be terribly wrong to join simply to keep the peace or to please someone.

I also agree that we cannot expect the other person to convert automatically.

However, I believe that if the converting spouse truly lives the Christian lifestyle, then the results cannot help but be positive.

I have seen this myself in my own life. Although my wife has not converted yet, ironically our marriage is now much better than it ever was. The reason is that I now genuinely try to serve her in love as I am called to do. That has had a positive impact, even though my wife persists in rejecting the faith. Certainly, I will not force her to convert, but I can and will change myself and continue to pray for her.

 

[SMHW]

What makes this particular situation a bit more heartbreaking is that the husband is already Catholic. He is not a non-Christian or a non-Catholic. (I’m assuming he has never formally defected.)

He may not be fully initiated. And he has apparently never had a truly adult experience of the Faith. But he is still a Catholic and has all the responsibilities and obligations that come with being a Catholic. So the wife actually has a greater moral imperative to bring this man back to the practice of the Faith than she would someone who had never been Catholic.

But I do believe that with prayers this man will eventually be back.

 

[Salonika]

tedfay:

However, I believe that if the converting spouse truly lives the Christian lifestyle, then the results cannot help but be positive.

I have seen this myself in my own life. Although my wife has not converted yet, ironically our marriage is now much better than it ever was. The reason is that I now genuinely try to serve her in love as I am called to do. That has had a positive impact, even though my wife persists in rejecting the faith. Certainly, I will not force her to convert, but I can and will change myself and continue to pray for her.

I agree.

Seeing someone living a particularly loving and caring way of life does make us wonder of what their motivation and how they maintain it. Sometimes it leads to “I must find this out more about what fuels this”.

This also applies to those who can keep their cool in situations when most people would have a melt down.

 

[cheese_sdc]

Lots of stuff.

Thank you for posting your logic.

If taken at face value it is quite correct. I shall present my thinking of the matter. I believe that if asked the question “Is God infinite?” most people would reply “Yes, God is infinite.” On this matter we both probably agree.

Now I would ask this question: “Are we infinite?” and I believe most people would probably answer “No, I’m not infinite.” We can then say with near certainty that even a collection of finite beings would still be finite. That is, not infinite.

I would then say that because all of us are finite, there is no way that we can contain, comprehend, or imagine the Infinite Deity. On this we may agree, although some may disagree.

Now, turning to religion - I would define religion - any religion - as “Man’s response to the Divine”. Man has experienced the Divine in some way, and because of our nature, we respond to it.

But we now have two forces in tension - the Infinite Deity and the finite man, each trying to comes to grips with each other. Man responds to the call of the Divinity, and is shaped by his own culture, geography, experiences etc. However, because man is finite, all his attempts at religion are basically flawed and all fall short.

So to say that this flawed attempt to communicate to the Divine is better than some other flawed attempt to communicate with the Divine is humorous.

But at least Divinity has a sense of humor.

 

[Timothy_Piper]

I know, I know, pray.

Here’s the situation. When we started dating, we were both, for all intents and purposes, atheists. We had both been baptized catholic but grew up in what would be called ‘cultural catholic homes’. Pretty much the last time either of us had seen the inside of the church was for our first (and apparently last) communion.
We weren’t married long before I got pregnant. Nine months later, the twins showed up. (Thanks birth control pill, you really helped me out there…). And it was after that that I really examined our lives and, as any parent out there probably already knows, risks you might have been willing to take with your own life, immortal or otherwise, you aren’t willing to take with your children’s. I returned to the church.
My husband doesn’t have a problem with me raising them in the faith. And we started using NFP, which he also didn’t have a problem with (it certainly helped by the way taht condoms are so gross, and the BCP makes me all wacky in the head, so I think he was kind of happy to switch to NFP actually)
It just devastates me because he doesn’t participate in it with me. He will come to mass, grudgingly. I not only have to get myself and the kids ready, but him to. (‘No, you can’t wear pajamas to mass. You can’t even wear them to Wal-Mart. How about you wear pants? Those are nice, too.’) it’s alot of work. It’s easier to prepare twin two-year olds for Mass than one 30 year old man who would rather sleep in.
I remind him that all of the Catholic teaching I give the kids won’t matter a LICK if he isn’t involved. They’ll simply shrug it off later as something wacky mom does.
Still, how can I get through to him? I have tried giving him books to read, but he won’t open them. I have tried inviting him to various events at the parish, particularly men’s events (where people he likes are attending by the way) and he won’t go.
Any advice? I would like to raise my children in a catholic home, but it’s increasingly difficult with a husband who finds the whole thing to be nonsense.

How many Catholics does it take to make a Catholic home? One. Let him be and see what happens over time and stop stressing yourself; twins are enough to do that.

What does the Scripture say in regards to this? Here are some that may help.
Proverbs 31:10-31
10 An excellent wife, who can find?

For her worth is far above jewels.

11 The heart of her husband trusts in her,

And he will have no lack of gain.

12 She does him good and not evil

All the days of her life.

13 She looks for wool and flax

And works with her hands in delight.

14 She is like merchant ships;

She brings her food from afar.

15 She rises also while it is still night

And gives food to her household

And portions to her maidens.

16 She considers a field and buys it;

From her earnings she plants a vineyard.

17 She girds herself with strength

And makes her arms strong.

18 She senses that her gain is good;

Her lamp does not go out at night.

19 She stretches out her hands to the distaff,

And her hands grasp the spindle.

20 She extends her hand to the poor,

And she stretches out her hands to the needy.

21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household,

For all her household are clothed with scarlet.

22 She makes coverings for herself;

Her clothing is fine linen and purple.

23 Her husband is known in the gates,

When he sits among the elders of the land.

24 She makes linen garments and sells them,

And supplies belts to the tradesmen.

25 Strength and dignity are her clothing,

And she smiles at the future.

26 She opens her mouth in wisdom,

And the teaching of kindness is on her tongue.

27 She looks well to the ways of her household,

And does not eat the bread of idleness.

28 Her children rise up and bless her;

Her husband also, and he praises her, saying:

29 "Many daughters have done nobly,

But you excel them all."

30 Charm is deceitful and beauty is vain,

But a woman who fears the LORD, she shall be praised.

31 Give her the product of her hands,

And let her works praise her in the gates.

Wisdom from Peter:
1 Peter 3:1-6
1 In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any {of them} are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, 2 as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior. 3 Your adornment must not be {merely} external–braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses; 4 but {let it be} the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God. 5 For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands; 6 just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear.

 

[tedfay]

But we now have two forces in tension - the Infinite Deity and the finite man, each trying to comes to grips with each other. Man responds to the call of the Divinity, and is shaped by his own culture, geography, experiences etc. However, because man is finite, all his attempts at religion are basically flawed and all fall short.

So to say that this flawed attempt to communicate to the Divine is better than some other flawed attempt to communicate with the Divine is humorous.

But at least Divinity has a sense of humor.

Thank you for your thoughtful comments.

It is true that we are finite, even as a combined whole, and that no one can comprehend the mind of the infinite God. It is also true that man tends to respond to the call of the Divine according to His culture, geography, experiences, etc. I agree God has a sense of humor. I will even agree that because we are finite that our attempts at religion are basically flawed and fall short.

What I’m really trying to communicate here, with all of the above logic, is that the Catholic (i.e. universal) Church is not man’s attempt at religion. The Catholic Church is the religion that God instituted for us and literally for our benefit.

God so loved the world that He sent His only son to die a torturous death as a sacrifice for our sins. He provided us with His teachings to help us achieve eternal life. He provided us with His divinely protected Church to minister to our ongoing needs in this life.

It is the divine nature of the Church that gives it the authority and solid foundation that all other religions lack. It is the divine nature of the Church that gives it the authority to say that it teaches the fullness of Truth.

Other religions can have aspects of the Truth, which is why all bona-fide religions have certain truths. However, unless God Himself backs up the philosophy or religion, then you are right - it has to be flawed.

So, I assert that the Catholic Church is the religion backed up by God himself. If so, then all of its infallible, magesterial teachings can be put to the test and found to be True. I invite you to genuinely read about any issue you want from all different perspectives - from the Catholic perspective many outstanding resources are right here on Catholic.com. If you seek, you will find.

God Bless and I truly wish you the best.

 

[Bluegoat]

Your husband sounds very wonderful - many would be upset about such a change.

I think maybe you should back off a bit. If he sees your change as becoming more and more annoying to him, than he may begin to see Catholisism in a negative light.

I don’t think it makes much difference, if he doesn’t believe, if he goes to Mass with you or not. Kids will pick up on his beliefs either way, amd it isn’t reasonable to ask him to hide or lie about them when they ask.

Go to Mass, take the kids, be a loving wife. Invite him along but don’t nag. Pray.

 

[rick43235]

Your husband sounds very wonderful - many would be upset about such a change.

I think maybe you should back off a bit. If he sees your change as becoming more and more annoying to him, than he may begin to see Catholisism in a negative light.

I don’t think it makes much difference, if he doesn’t believe, if he goes to Mass with you or not. Kids will pick up on his beliefs either way, amd it isn’t reasonable to ask him to hide or lie about them when they ask.

Go to Mass, take the kids, be a loving wife. Invite him along but don’t nag. Pray.

As a non-Catholic who goes to mass with my wife every week, I think this is good advice. I knew what I was getting into before I got married, so I was aware of the fact that, for the sake of “family unity,” I would be going to mass every Sunday. The OP’s husband, on the other hand, had the rules changed on him. The fact that he is willing to go to mass at all should be viewed in a positive light. To try to force him to go, however, has the potential to backfire. Every little resentment will drive the wedge in that much deeper.

 

[rwillenborg]

Here’s some advice that you may not like:

You were the one that changed. At the time of your marriage, you admitted to being an atheist. He therefore married you with the expectation (whether or not that expectation is reasonable is another matter) that you would continue this religious/philosophical outlook on life.

However, you changed. I don’t find it reasonable for you to expect him to change. After all, you married him as he was, atheist and all. His resistance to going to Mass is perhaps resentment that you changed the rules of the game on him in the middle of the game.

He is going along with you with NFP and raising the kids Catholic. It does not sound like he is hostile to your beliefs, he simply does not share them. Let him be in his atheism and stop nagging him to join you.

And, just FYI, I de-converted from Catholicism about two years ago. I am very much aware of the above, from the other side of the table, so to speak. My wife married me with the expectation that I’d stay Catholic. Despite my opinions, I have not hindered her from going to Mass (sometimes I kick her in the butt to go to Mass, even), and help her raise our daughter Catholic.

Eh, asking for advice on the internet usually nets a person advice they don’t want. I take my chances.
As far as changing the rules…when we married I don’t think either of us expected that the other wouldn’t change. For goodness sake, why would anyone expect that you could spend your WHOLE LIFE with a person and they wouldn’t change one bit? That would be an off expectation. No, when he married me, he married ME, not a set of beliefs. So, I don’t think he was all that surprised when I changed. You changed on your wife. When people get married, these things happen.
His beliefs in alot of other areas have changed too. I don’t think that just because this is a change that was introduced after we got married should make much of a difference.

He is going along with you with NFP and raising the kids Catholic.

That’s the problem. He’s not raising the kids Catholic. He’s raising them as an atheist, and I’m raising them as a Catholic, and we all just so happen to live under the same roof. That’s where things get complicated.
I want the girls to say prayers. He doesn’t. I want them to say grace. He doesn’t. I want to go to Mass AS A FAMILY. He wants me to go alone with the girls. I want to celebrate Christmas. He doesn’t. So, you see, he doesn’t have a problem with ME taking the girls ‘somewhere Catholic’ but he does have a problem with anything Catholic entering the home. I can easily envision, in the not too distant future, the girls realizing mom and dad are on different pages in this regard. And frankly, sleeping in on Sunday instead of going to Mass, and playing games instead of saying prayers is alot easier. This will end up being a battle for me to fight, every night before bed (‘But daddy doesn’t say prayers, why should I?’) and every Sunday before Mass (‘But daddy doesn’t have to go, why should I?’) alone, if I don’t have him on my side.
You’re right, he’s not hostile to my beliefs, and that’s a blessing, but again, if this didn’t involve the kids, it wouldn’t be the big deal that it is to me.
May I ask, since your own situation parallels mine somewhat, does your wife actually think any of the Catholic beliefs she is passing on to her daughter will stick without your support? And if so, why does she think that? I would love to believe that somehow with just ME raising the kids Catholic that they would somehow have a fighting chance of staying Catholic, but I’m afraid I just don’t see it. It would just be SO much easier to fall on dad’s side in this and turn away from the whole realm of faith. And, if you believe what your wife is teaching your child is false (you do not believe there is a God, she believes there is, and so on) why are you okay with that? I certainly would not be okay with my children being taught something that I believed to be false.
Just curious. I’ve asked my own husband the same thing. If you don’t believe this is true, why would you want me to pass it on to your children? He says it’s because he thinks it’s nice.

 

[rwillenborg]

My husband is an atheist too. (at least he says he is…)

I always invite him to Mass and try to let him know that he’s always welcome. Lately I’ve been wondering what sort of an example I am to him, which isn’t so good, so if he has reservations, I can understand, sort of…

But sometimes I get exasperated and say “I want you to become a Catholic NOW.” Then there is much mutual rolling of the eyes and I have to apologize to him while my mom and sister tell me to “leave the poor guy alone!”

Yet, though he acts disinterested, he took off work one time in the middle of the day so he could be present when we got our home blessed, and he’s the one who always gets me up in time to get to Mass and Confession. And he almost refuses to go to bed at night if he doesn’t hear some prayers said…

We have no kids and it’s very unlikely we ever will, so I don’t have your added burden of needing my husband’s example. I do know God can do all things so He will, in His time. It’s not all up to you.

The suggestions about prayer and saying the Rosary are very sound.

I will keep you in my prayers. Please pray for me too, and thank you for your post.

Isn’t that odd? As much as my husband doesn’t believe any of this stuff, he bought me a rosary, a really pretty one. I know he spent alot of time picking it out. But then when I get it out to pray, he looks all shocked. I just don’t get it. On the one hand, he’s saying ‘run with this’ and on the other hand he’s saying that this is all nonsense.

 

[rwillenborg]

How many Catholics does it take to make a Catholic home? One. Let him be and see what happens over time and stop stressing yourself; twins are enough to do that.

Do you really think so? I pray you’re right about that. You’re certainly right about the fact that the twins are quite enough stress!!!

 

[rwillenborg]

Rwillenborg, it seems to me that you are already doing a lot of things right and you have gotten plenty of good ideas and information.

I just have a few things to add.

Cheese_sdc is right in that it was YOU who changed the “rules” after the marriage. I don’t say that because I think you need to back off and let him be. (Most certainly not!) I say that because your husband obviously loves you because he has agreed to follow you (however imperfectly) when you went somewhere he wasn’t ever expecting to go. That in and off itself is a sign that God is working on him.

I also suggest you take tedfay’s advice and consider what kind of man your husband is. …what makes him tick and what he finds attractive. In that same vein I would suggest you look at “Catholic life” outside of the parish. Does you parish have any teams that complete in a sport your husband likes? Do you know any good Catholics involved in some community activity your husband likes? When your children are a bit older you might want to involve them in some activity (either at the parish or with parish connections) for which your husband will want to be a parent volunteer. (My former pastor was once invited to do an opening prayer at the beginning of the AYSO soccer season and he commented that he saw more of his parishioners there at the soccer field than he does at any single Sunday Mass.)

Don’t forget parish life itself. It’s human nature that we often begin to feel love for that which we serve. Would your husband serve as an usher if he were asked? Does he have any skills (bookkeeping, carpentry, comuting skills, landscaping, etc.) that your parish might occasionly need? Our parish choir has several members who attend Mass more out of a love of singing than from a love of Catholism but I know that God is working on them.

My final suggesting is to use humor when necessary. You can say things like, “Oh, I know you’ll be a better Catholic than me someday because of all the rosaries I’ve been saying,” while using an (almost) joking tone. Humor can soften some of the requests you make of your husband. But even more importantly, it can help YOU.

Thank you for the advice. I suggest things to him that he might like to do, and he seems interested but as soon as the words ‘It’ll be at church’ leave my mouth, he’s disinterested.
And you’re right, humor is very helpful. He’s lucky I’m so funny.
And you’re right, too, my husband loves me to death. I couldn’t ask for a more loving husband. ANY involvement, however small, he has had with the church was because he loves me, not out of any love for the church. And for that, I love him even more and I am so grateful. And, he loves our children dearly, too. I just know that I have come to learn some truths, and I SO MUCH don’t want my husband to be left out of this. I need him by my side, especially when it comes to the kids. I can’t raise these kids to be good Catholics alone.

 

[mizznicole]

It sounds like you have a good marriage, all things considered - thank God!

I wonder - would it help to meet him on an intellectual level - as far as shared commitments to certain moral realities, etc. What kind of atheist is he? Does he have a particular philosophy? There might be ways you can at least agree on moral issues that will help with raising your kids. Plus, exposure to Catholic intellectual heritage might be attractive to him. Things by Cardinal Ratzinger, Cardinal Schoenborn, Maritain, Wojtyla, etc.

This assumes, of course, an intellectual personality. But there might be other ways to think where you have common ground and become united.

 

[rwillenborg]

However, the situation has changed and it is very understandable that someone who considers they have found the truth wants to share and get the person who is closest to them to also find it and practice it.

Think there is an obligation on the part of the other person to find out more about their partner’s new faith and understand it.

However to expect the other person to automatically convert is an unfair expectation.

Would the person who has converted consider that if their partner thought they had found the truth and changedtheir faith consider they would automatically convert whatever they thought and felt about it. I doubt it.

Also how true would be conversation “for peace’s sake” or “to please my spouse, father, mother etc” or “I can’t take the pressure any longer”. Can someone be expected to make affirmations at baptism and confirmation that they do not believe. Also, if there are children involved what a bad example to them.

Agree, you join because you believe.

And also to respect their search for truth and where it leads them.

Agreed on all counts! I didn’t automatically change, either, but this is something I’m learning about and exploring. I can’t imagine doing it without my husband at my side. And really that’s all I want, I just want my husband to make some effort to understand this, and not reject it out of hand. I don’t want my husband to come into communion with the church to make me happy. That’s the tricky part. He would. If I said to him ‘Coming to church every week and attending this or that, or reading this or that would make me happy’ he would do it. Absolutely without hesitation. (I know, I know, isn’t he great?) but I won’t do that. I won’t FORCE this on him, but what I DO ask of him is that he makes some effort to understand what it is I am trying to learn myself. And, as I said in another post, it’s the kids I worry about the most. It’s extremely difficult to raise my children with Catholic teachings when my husband would rather be teaching them the exact opposite.

 

[rwillenborg]

Your husband sounds very wonderful - many would be upset about such a change.

I think maybe you should back off a bit. If he sees your change as becoming more and more annoying to him, than he may begin to see Catholisism in a negative light.

I don’t think it makes much difference, if he doesn’t believe, if he goes to Mass with you or not. Kids will pick up on his beliefs either way, amd it isn’t reasonable to ask him to hide or lie about them when they ask.

Go to Mass, take the kids, be a loving wife. Invite him along but don’t nag. Pray.

See, I actually think it DOES make a difference if he goes to Mass with me or not. Already, and the girls are only two, they say ‘Me want DADDY!’ when it comes time to go to Mass. So, I drag two kids kicking and screaming that they want daddy into the car. It sucks. It just plain sucks. Sometimes he’ll go, again, it’s grudgingly (especially since he goes out with the guys on Saturday night, and sometimes doesn’t roll in til 4 in the morning, yikes!). He’ll go, but only because he sees I need help with the girls. And even then, it’s almost easier to bring two screaming kids than two non-screaming kids and one stubborn husband. What I DON’T need at mass is someone sitting next to me and whispering ‘Yeah, right’ in my ear every time the priest talks. It gets annoying. But, again, he’s not bothered when I go to Mass by myself or with the kids. But he bristles at the idea of anything coming into the house that is somehow Catholic or religious. I don’t want him to go to Mass just because he thinks I need help with the kids. I can handle the kids. It can get tricky, but it can be done. But then again, I don’t want him to miss Mass. It might be his only opportunity to hear anything from the Bible.

 

[rwillenborg]

It sounds like you have a good marriage, all things considered - thank God!

I wonder - would it help to meet him on an intellectual level - as far as shared commitments to certain moral realities, etc. What kind of atheist is he? Does he have a particular philosophy? There might be ways you can at least agree on moral issues that will help with raising your kids. Plus, exposure to Catholic intellectual heritage might be attractive to him. Things by Cardinal Ratzinger, Cardinal Schoenborn, Maritain, Wojtyla, etc.

This assumes, of course, an intellectual personality. But there might be other ways to think where you have common ground and become united.

We do have a great marriage!! I’m STILL so head over heels in love with that guy. He feels the same way about me. Lucky ducks, we are.
Those are good suggestions for reading. I’ll see what I can find!
Yes, he’s an intellectual personality. Here’s what’s SO crazy about his beliefs…he just kind of makes them up as he goes. For example, he said to me ‘I believe you can come back after you die as something else’ and I said ‘So you believe in reincarnation?’ and he said ‘Kind of, but you can only come back as something that has dreams’ and I said ‘Like what?’ and he said ‘You could come back as a whale’
Okay, I’m gonna stop the story here because ANY belief that ends with you telling your wife she could come back as a whale is awful, terrible, and should die a slow and painful death. Seriously. You JUST told your wife she could be a whale. How could this POSSIBLY be a good idea, hmmm?
So, as intellectual as he is (and he IS!) he’s also wacky and makes things up. So, he doesn’t believe there is a God, but he DOES believe that evil spirits can come through mirrors at night and so we don’t have any mirrors in the house. I kid you not. You should have seen the look on his face - when the girls were little and I bought those mirrors they sell at Babies R Us to hang in their cribs - honestly, you would have thought I lined their cribs with scorpions and shards of glass. He was like ‘You put MIRRORS in their CRIBS!!! Are you INSANE? Their SOULS will get stolen at night!!!’ And I’M the crazy one for believing God exists. Sheesh. Go figure. He’s complicated.
I really thought the Francis Collins book (I forget the title) that HE bought himself would really help, but it never left the bookshelf. Sigh. Open it. Read it. That’s all I ask!

 

[rwillenborg]

Rwillenborg, it seems to me that you are already doing a lot of things right and you have gotten plenty of good ideas and information.

I just have a few things to add.

Cheese_sdc is right in that it was YOU who changed the “rules” after the marriage. I don’t say that because I think you need to back off and let him be. (Most certainly not!) I say that because your husband obviously loves you because he has agreed to follow you (however imperfectly) when you went somewhere he wasn’t ever expecting to go. That in and off itself is a sign that God is working on him.

I also suggest you take tedfay’s advice and consider what kind of man your husband is. …what makes him tick and what he finds attractive. In that same vein I would suggest you look at “Catholic life” outside of the parish. Does you parish have any teams that complete in a sport your husband likes? Do you know any good Catholics involved in some community activity your husband likes? When your children are a bit older you might want to involve them in some activity (either at the parish or with parish connections) for which your husband will want to be a parent volunteer. (My former pastor was once invited to do an opening prayer at the beginning of the AYSO soccer season and he commented that he saw more of his parishioners there at the soccer field than he does at any single Sunday Mass.)

Don’t forget parish life itself. It’s human nature that we often begin to feel love for that which we serve. Would your husband serve as an usher if he were asked? Does he have any skills (bookkeeping, carpentry, comuting skills, landscaping, etc.) that your parish might occasionly need? Our parish choir has several members who attend Mass more out of a love of singing than from a love of Catholism but I know that God is working on them.

My final suggesting is to use humor when necessary. You can say things like, “Oh, I know you’ll be a better Catholic than me someday because of all the rosaries I’ve been saying,” while using an (almost) joking tone. Humor can soften some of the requests you make of your husband. But even more importantly, it can help YOU.

Thank you for your thoughtful suggestions. I will take them to heart.

 

[rwillenborg]

As a non-Catholic who goes to mass with my wife every week, I think this is good advice. I knew what I was getting into before I got married, so I was aware of the fact that, for the sake of “family unity,” I would be going to mass every Sunday. The OP’s husband, on the other hand, had the rules changed on him. The fact that he is willing to go to mass at all should be viewed in a positive light. To try to force him to go, however, has the potential to backfire. Every little resentment will drive the wedge in that much deeper.

Yes, that’s the balance I am trying to find. When does it change from inviting to nagging? And I do view ANY time he’s willing to go to Mass as a positive, and I want to be very clear here - my husband ROCKS. Seriously. But, then again, I don’t want to STOP asking him questions and inviting him to things - these are things that are on my heart, and the only thing WORSE would be for me to say something like ‘Well, I assumed you wouldn’t be interested in going to this Bible study with me, so I’m dropping the kids off at my mom’s and I’ll be back in two hours’ I don’t think that’s very nice either. So, I agree with what you’re saying and THAT is the balance I am trying to find. I want to be loving and supportive and encouraging, but not over bearing. Likewise, I want him to know ALWAYS that this is a journey that I would rather take WITH him than alone. That’s the balance I try to strike. I agree - forcing him to go could backfire, but then again, I don’t want him to think I forgot about inviting him along!!!

 

[lucy_fur]

I know, I know, pray.

Here’s the situation. When we started dating, we were both, for all intents and purposes, atheists. We had both been baptized catholic but grew up in what would be called ‘cultural catholic homes’. Pretty much the last time either of us had seen the inside of the church was for our first (and apparently last) communion.
We weren’t married long before I got pregnant. Nine months later, the twins showed up. (Thanks birth control pill, you really helped me out there…). And it was after that that I really examined our lives and, as any parent out there probably already knows, risks you might have been willing to take with your own life, immortal or otherwise, you aren’t willing to take with your children’s. I returned to the church.
My husband doesn’t have a problem with me raising them in the faith. And we started using NFP, which he also didn’t have a problem with (it certainly helped by the way taht condoms are so gross, and the BCP makes me all wacky in the head, so I think he was kind of happy to switch to NFP actually)
It just devastates me because he doesn’t participate in it with me. He will come to mass, grudgingly. I not only have to get myself and the kids ready, but him to. (‘No, you can’t wear pajamas to mass. You can’t even wear them to Wal-Mart. How about you wear pants? Those are nice, too.’) it’s alot of work. It’s easier to prepare twin two-year olds for Mass than one 30 year old man who would rather sleep in.
I remind him that all of the Catholic teaching I give the kids won’t matter a LICK if he isn’t involved. They’ll simply shrug it off later as something wacky mom does.
Still, how can I get through to him? I have tried giving him books to read, but he won’t open them. I have tried inviting him to various events at the parish, particularly men’s events (where people he likes are attending by the way) and he won’t go.
Any advice? I would like to raise my children in a catholic home, but it’s increasingly difficult with a husband who finds the whole thing to be nonsense.

How dare you force your children into a religion before they are old enough to compare different religions and make an educated, mature choice. There is no difference in labeling children marxist, atheist, nazi, jewish, christian, conservative, or any other ideology believed by the parents. This is a terrible tragedy, why do they need to believe in god? will they be bad children and not learn wrong and right, do they not know the golden rule which is innate in all of us?
Do you really need to proselytize with innocent children?
Is it because if you don’t drum it in there heads now there is a fair chance they will never believe it, because it is so illogical and counter intuitive?
Or do you think we “Atheists and all believers of other religions” are missing something, that the view from nowhere is empty of love and emotions, do you think 80% of all humans are wrong and you are right?
Come on, don’t abuse the minds of children, don’t make them listen to clergy who may possibly abuse them, without your knowing.
Let children make their own sense of the world, discover, don’t force dogma upon them please. Ever heard of free will, let your children exercise the right to use there god given free will.

 

[tedfay]

Come on, don’t abuse the minds of children, don’t make them listen to clergy who may possibly abuse them, without your knowing.
Let children make their own sense of the world, discover, don’t force dogma upon them please. Ever heard of free will, let your children exercise the right to use there god given free will.

Lucy, I will use your own argument against you. How dare you to presume to instruct children to make moral choices? You should let them go out and explore and make up their own minds if murder is appropriate. How dare you presume to teach children that there is no God? You can’t prove the non-existence of God, so you should not presume to impose your beliefs on children. How dare you presume to teach children anything about science, you destroy their free will by not allowing them to find out for themsleves.

The reality is that your assertions don’t make any sense. At it’s heart, your argument boils down to the intimidation of your anger being used as a weapon to browbeat others to conform your point of view - or to convince yourself that you are right.

Of course we teach our children the Truth as we understand it. We love our children and are obligated to teach them how to live properly in our society. That means teaching them how to make moral choices, not just exploring the world and doing what they want. Because God is real, we are also obligated to teach them about what God has revealed to us.

Of course, my previous statements pre-suppose the existence of God. If you scroll up a few pages you will see some pretty convincing arguments for the existence and nature of God.

Oh, and nothing can take away the free will of children. Just ask any parent of grown kids.