What to do in this Situation...

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MiserereMeiDeus

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A Blessed Passiontide to you all.

I am wondering if anyone else has been in this situation. At the parish I attend, some of us; including Father, have been attempting to incorporate more elements of our Catholic heritage and identity into the Mass and Church. For example, we have veiled all the images and Crucifixes, obtained beautiful tabernacle veils and altar cloths, as well as altar frontals and ambo hangings. The servers now wears a cassock and surplice instead of street clothes, and more appropriate hymns are being sung.

The problem however, is that there are some people who greatly oppose this. They have fought this every step of the way, and finally the issue came to a head. The comment someone received was that all this stuff is not necessary and this is supposed to be a laid back place. The gold trim on the altar frontal, veiled images, cassocks and surplices, and everything else we have been trying to do is going to make people feel uncomfortable and make them not want to come back.

The response to this was that all the things that have been implemented are legitimate Liturgical options, and help restore a sense of our Catholic identity. These things have not driven people away, as we still have the same numbers at Mass as we did before these things. However those who oppose insist that it has, regardless of the fact that we have received multiple compliments on reverent and pious the Masses are.

I fear that this group of opposition is going to contact the Bishop to try to have Father transferred.

Has anyone else been in a situation like this before? If so, what should I do? I am highly involved in this parish, so it is hard to just leave. Please offer a few prayers for us.

Thank you,
Miserere
 
I think it’s important to recognize that with many things people have preferences. One isn’t necessarily right or wrong, they’re simply what one person likes or doesn’t. If you make changes from the way things have been, some people will be happy and others will mourn what they have lost.

While you enjoy the changes you are seeing, try to avoid a sense of triumphalism as if you won and “they” lost. When a new pastor arrives – and it will happen – you may be on the losing side. But ultimately, we are all brothers and sisters in Christ.
 
Of course! I do not believe that we have a triumphal air. We are doing this, at least from my perspective, to give humble adoration to Christ. Previously the tabernacle was placed on a wooden pedestal off to the side, but now it is adorned with fitting cloth and veil to honor our Lord. I’m not doing this for me, but for Christ Jesus :).

I also do not know if I can in good conscious serve at the altar of sacrifice in my street clothes. I feel that is extremely irreverent. I do not believe that the Liturgy is the placed for being laid back. Anyone have any suggestions, or wish to share similar experiences?

Sincerely,

Miserere
 
MiserereMeiDeus said:
A Blessed Passiontide to you all.

I am wondering if anyone else has been in this situation. At the parish I attend, some of us; including Father, have been attempting to incorporate more elements of our Catholic heritage and identity into the Mass and Church. For example, we have veiled all the images and Crucifixes, obtained beautiful tabernacle veils and altar cloths, as well as altar frontals and ambo hangings. The servers now wears a cassock and surplice instead of street clothes, and more appropriate hymns are being sung.

The problem however, is that there are some people who greatly oppose this. They have fought this every step of the way, and finally the issue came to a head. The comment someone received was that all this stuff is not necessary and this is supposed to be a laid back place. The gold trim on the altar frontal, veiled images, cassocks and surplices, and everything else we have been trying to do is going to make people feel uncomfortable and make them not want to come back.

The response to this was that all the things that have been implemented are legitimate Liturgical options, and help restore a sense of our Catholic identity. These things have not driven people away, as we still have the same numbers at Mass as we did before these things. However those who oppose insist that it has, regardless of the fact that we have received multiple compliments on reverent and pious the Masses are.

I fear that this group of opposition is going to contact the Bishop to try to have Father transferred.

Has anyone else been in a situation like this before? If so, what should I do? I am highly involved in this parish, so it is hard to just leave. Please offer a few prayers for us.

Thank you,
Miserere
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Actaully I was in (or more accurately I was witness to) something of a similar sort. It was when I was young (around 1966 or so) and the new pastor began to make radical changes trying to “turn back teh clock” on Vat II reforms taking place. It was very disruptive and he was transferred.

The best thing to do in your situation is to support your pastor. As you have said, there is nothing being done that is “wrong” and so far there has not been a loss of attendees so the opposition hasn’t really shown any reason to discontinue what your pastor has put in practice.
In order for the “opposition” to get the pastor moved there would need to be some pretty strong evidence of discontent/disruption and from your post it doesn’t seem to be there.

Peace
James
 
The best thing to do in your situation is to support your pastor. As you have said, there is nothing being done that is “wrong” and so far there has not been a loss of attendees so the opposition hasn’t really shown any reason to discontinue what your pastor has put in practice.
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I will do that. There hasn’t been any loss of attendees and compliments have been given in regards to reverence. I can’t see how that is a bad thing. The main argument was that it is suppose to be laid back. I can understand that in fellowship and non-liturgical functions. However I strongly feel that the Mass is not the place where we should be “laid back” and “informal.”
 
We’re undergoing something similar at my church. The new pastor has corrected many of the things that were being done wrong and has started more traditional practices. There have been many complaints, people have left, and there was even a rumor that some people did write to the bishop. How true the last one is, I don’t know.

Anyway, it’s not really something to be concerned about. I’ve found that while we have lost some people, we have gained just as many, if not more, because the more conservative people are starting to come from the liberal parishes that surround us. My opinion is you just let those people go - the people who truly come to Mass because they love the Mass and are true to their faith aren’t going to be worried about the cozy warm-fuzzy feeling that is given by a “laid-back” liturgy.
 
The_Curt_Jester said:
We’re undergoing something similar at my church. The new pastor has corrected many of the things that were being done wrong and has started more traditional practices. There have been many complaints, people have left, and there was even a rumor that some people did write to the bishop. How true the last one is, I don’t know.

Anyway, it’s not really something to be concerned about. I’ve found that while we have lost some people, we have gained just as many, if not more, because the more conservative people are starting to come from the liberal parishes that surround us. My opinion is you just let those people go - the people who truly come to Mass because they love the Mass and are true to their faith aren’t going to be worried about the cozy warm-fuzzy feeling that is given by a “laid-back” liturgy.
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👍👍
 
MiserereMeiDeus said:
I will do that. There hasn’t been any loss of attendees and compliments have been given in regards to reverence. I can’t see how that is a bad thing. The main argument was that it is suppose to be laid back. I can understand that in fellowship and non-liturgical functions. However I strongly feel that the Mass is not the place where we should be “laid back” and “informal.”
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I agree that mass is not the place to be “Laid back”
Perhaps it would be useful, especially at this time of Easter or just after Easter, for your pastor to give a sermon on the importance of the mass, the great joys, the great mysteries, the great blessing in worship and so forth.
He could invite/challenge all those present to really listen, to take in and ponder the magesty, the glory and the intensity of the Mass.
Perhaps it would need to be a series of sermons. 🙂

Anyway, it’s something that might be suggested to father as a way to both soothe and teach.

Peace
James
 
Hang in there and support your priest. In fact why not organize some of your folks into a Reform of the Reform Society. Get your priest to recognize the group and begin holding meetings to plan how to support the priest and further the Reform. Invite other parishes to join with you.
 
Note that there will be some significant changes when the new translation is inaugurated on the 1st Sunday of Advent this year. It would probably be well to incorporate them in your efforts.
 
Note that there will be some significant changes when the new translation is inaugurated on the 1st Sunday of Advent this year. It would probably be well to incorporate them in your efforts.
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I cannot wait for the new translations implementation! I have read some of the new collects and they are beautiful.
Hang in there and support your priest. In fact why not organize some of your folks into a Reform of the Reform Society. Get your priest to recognize the group and begin holding meetings to plan how to support the priest and further the Reform. Invite other parishes to join with you.
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That would be wonderful to have a Reform of the Reform Society here. The only problem that I can see however, is that we are a small parish and I do not know how many people would be interested. (Sadly to say, I believe most people go simply because they “have to go”.)
I agree that mass is not the place to be “Laid back”
Perhaps it would be useful, especially at this time of Easter or just after Easter, for your pastor to give a sermon on the importance of the mass, the great joys, the great mysteries, the great blessing in worship and so forth.
He could invite/challenge all those present to really listen, to take in and ponder the majesty, the glory and the intensity of the Mass.
Perhaps it would need to be a series of sermons.
Click to expand...
That would be an excellent idea. I will speak with Father and see if he would be interested in doing a series of homilies on such topic.
+______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________+

Thank you to everyone who replied. This parish family means quite a lot to me, and it pains me to see it divided, or indifferent. Please keep us in your prayers and I will update you every step of the way.

Also, has anyone else gone through a similar experience? What worked for you and what didn’t?

Pax et Bonum,

Miserere
 
I have been in congregatins that divided over things like what the altar linens look like. It was a very stressful time. Please rememebr that while it is good that altar linens, vestements, etc, be beautiful, they are not central. Also, any changes in the liturgy or it’s ‘surroundings’ should be led by your priests. Certainly it is laudable that lay people support him, especially in the cost to purchase and care for the new vestements altar clothes, but it isn’t up to a parish committee of any kind to dictate what the altar should look like or what father or the servers wear.

I say all this not because I agree with the “laid back” folks, that a polyester table cloth or folding card table is OK as church furniture, but because I want to remind you to be in obedience to your priest on these matters.

If the bishop does transfer your priest, for whatever reason, please assume the best of your new priest and assure him that you will be happy to continue in your role as lay sacristian to care for all the special altar linens and vestements.
 
JRKH said:
Actaully I was in (or more accurately I was witness to) something of a similar sort. It was when I was young (around 1966 or so) and the new pastor began to make radical changes trying to “turn back teh clock” on Vat II reforms taking place. It was very disruptive and he was transferred.
Click to expand...
What were the changes that your pastor made (or tried to make)?
 
MikeDunphy said:
What were the changes that your pastor made (or tried to make)?
Click to expand...
I don’t know if I really wish to get into this. After all this all occurred 40+ years ago.
I don’t really want to derail the thread with it…
But two of the things that I recall were that he insisted that the women not wear pants, and also that they cover their heads. He would actually refuse communion to those who did not submit to these rules of his.
There were other issues too but I don’t really recall…You have to remember that I was only about 12 years old at the time.

Peace
James
 
Also, any changes in the liturgy or it’s ‘surroundings’ should be led by your priests.
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I agree, and that is what is happening. Father has instituted these changes and I have simply been the one to help him.
 
MiserereMeiDeus said:
A Blessed Passiontide to you all.

I am wondering if anyone else has been in this situation. At the parish I attend, some of us; including Father, have been attempting to incorporate more elements of our Catholic heritage and identity into the Mass and Church. For example, we have veiled all the images and Crucifixes, obtained beautiful tabernacle veils and altar cloths, as well as altar frontals and ambo hangings. The servers now wears a cassock and surplice instead of street clothes, and more appropriate hymns are being sung.

The problem however, is that there are some people who greatly oppose this. They have fought this every step of the way, and finally the issue came to a head. The comment someone received was that all this stuff is not necessary and this is supposed to be a laid back place. The gold trim on the altar frontal, veiled images, cassocks and surplices, and everything else we have been trying to do is going to make people feel uncomfortable and make them not want to come back.

The response to this was that all the things that have been implemented are legitimate Liturgical options, and help restore a sense of our Catholic identity. These things have not driven people away, as we still have the same numbers at Mass as we did before these things. However those who oppose insist that it has, regardless of the fact that we have received multiple compliments on reverent and pious the Masses are.

I fear that this group of opposition is going to contact the Bishop to try to have Father transferred.

Has anyone else been in a situation like this before? If so, what should I do? I am highly involved in this parish, so it is hard to just leave. Please offer a few prayers for us.

Thank you,
Miserere
Click to expand...
This all sounds wonderfull but did anyone ever stop to consider the views of everyone ; who decides whats appropriate; why does it have to be one way or the other; no one wins all you get is resentment. As someone pointed out and I’m sure you will have read in other posts of the TRADS ( forgive me but I hate labels ) upset when things go the other way. So I would suggest in a gesture of solidarity and charity and humility that some attempt be made to either reach a comprimise as nothing you are discussion is after all a core part of being a catholic. Maybe at least one service should be more warm and fuzzy as you would so lightly call it. Oh how I would Love to get the Warm Fuzzy Feeling that words won’t be able to describe when I hope Christ’s says to me You are forgiven come with me into My Fathers house.

ONE HOLY APOSTOLIC CATHOLIC CHURCH for me please, with all the colours to paint a wonderfull canvas for the Lord ; with all the notes to play a wonderfull song for the Lord.
Let every generation add their own voice to the great choir and let no one try to Gag them.

wher would Amazing Grace have been if everyone in the age it was written first cast it out as inappropriate just because it wasn’t there before. And OH how sweet the sound. I’m so glad the writer of that wanted a something new for his time.

😃
 
Almost three years ago our pastor removed the free standing table from the sanctuary and started to celebrate the Masses toward the main altar.

Naturally there were people who complained. They petitioned the archbishop that they need the people facing altar. The archbishop in cooperation with the pastor made a decision: the Satuday evening mass is celebrated using a free standing table.

Interestingly that mass is the less crowded among the 5 total weekend mass.

Some compromises should be made, but ultimatelly the decision shall be in the hand of the Magisterium.
 
laszlo said:
Almost three years ago our pastor removed the free standing table from the sanctuary and started to celebrate the Masses toward the main altar.

Naturally there were people who complained. They petitioned the archbishop that they need the people facing altar. The archbishop in cooperation with the pastor made a decision: the Satuday evening mass is celebrated using a free standing table.

Interestingly that mass is the less crowded among the 5 total weekend mass.

Some compromises should be made, but ultimatelly the decision shall be in the hand of the Magisterium.
Click to expand...
Thank you for a wonderful example of “tell it to the Church”.

Peace
James
 
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