What to do? Protestant at Mass

[Jennifer132]

So I have read a few threads on here, and the general consensus seems to be that if you are not Catholic you should stay in your seat for the Eucharist, not go up for a blessing. The parish we attend (we are seriously considering conversion, we are Protestant, but we missed RCIA this year) has over 3,000 people. The first week we went we tried to hang back, and it was slightly disruptive because the ushers didn’t seem to understand why we were hanging back, and because the way the pews are a long string of people have to go through your pew and you are basically taking up aisle space that is needed for the lines (we have four of us in Mass).

We also noticed that the practice of giving blessings with arms folded across your chest was practiced by all the little children and a few adults.

So the second week we went to the newcomers table and asked what we should do. The people there said go up and get a blessing, you don’t need to stay seated. So we have done that ever since, and no one has looked at us funny. Because of what I read here though, I’m wondering, are we doing the right thing? And if we should stay seated, how do we make it less disruptive?

And finally, I realize the membership process is long. So are we welcome to continue to participate at Mass, join Bible studies, etc while not members?

 

[Don_Ruggero]

So I have read a few threads on here, and the general consensus seems to be that if you are not Catholic you should stay in your seat for the Eucharist, not go up for a blessing. The parish we attend (we are seriously considering conversion, we are Protestant, but we missed RCIA this year) has over 3,000 people. The first week we went we tried to hang back, and it was slightly disruptive because the ushers didn’t seem to understand why we were hanging back, and because the way the pews are a long string of people have to go through your pew and you are basically taking up aisle space that is needed for the lines (we have four of us in Mass).

We also noticed that the practice of giving blessings with arms folded across your chest was practiced by all the little children and a few adults.

So the second week we went to the newcomers table and asked what we should do. The people there said go up and get a blessing, you don’t need to stay seated. So we have done that ever since, and no one has looked at us funny. Because of what I read here though, I’m wondering, are we doing the right thing? And if we should stay seated, how do we make it less disruptive?

And finally, I realize the membership process is long. So are we welcome to continue to participate at Mass, join Bible studies, etc while not members?

Since you are in a parish where that is the norm and if that is what the pastor encourages you to do, by all means that is what you should do. The practice varies from country to country…where I am, you would be verbally invited and encouraged to come forward for a blessing. Some dioceses and some parishes make other decisions. As you have read, there are several trains of thought on the matter. Perhaps one day, the issue will be definitively resolved by the Holy See.

I know you obviously would not do this…but as a priest myself, I would be decidedly un-enamored if someone came into my parish visiting and wishing to become Catholic…but offering critique of my liturgical decisions based on what they read on the Internet rather than chatting with me about it, in which I would gladly explain why something is done the way that it is.

Of course, you are most warmly welcome to participate at Mass and join in activities of various groups as you go through the process to become Catholic.

God’s blessing be upon you and your family.

 

[Jennifer132]

Since you are in a parish where that is the norm and if that is what the pastor encourages you to do, by all means that is what you should do. The practice varies from country to country…where I am, you would be verbally invited and encouraged to come forward for a blessing. Some dioceses and some parishes make other decisions. As you have read, there are several trains of thought on the matter. Perhaps one day, the issue will be definitively resolved by the Holy See.

I know you obviously would not do this…but as a priest myself, I would be decidedly un-enamored if someone came into my parish visiting and wishing to become Catholic…but offering critique of my liturgical decisions based on what they read on the Internet rather than chatting with me about it, in which I would gladly explain why something is done the way that it is.

Of course, you are most warmly welcome to participate at Mass and join in activities of various groups as you go through the process to become Catholic.

God’s blessing be upon you and your family.

Thank you for answering. I definitely wouldn’t presume to tell the priest that I knew better! I was asking because I’m worried about continuing a practice that is potentially offensive to others or that perhaps I had been given wrong information by the person at the newcomers table, since I had read the opposite on this forum. As it is such a large parish, I have only had the chance to speak with the priest once, and that was only for a few moments. Whoever was at the newcomers table that told us it was okay to receive a blessing appeared to me to be just a regular member volunteering.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Thank you for answering. I definitely wouldn’t presume to tell the priest that I knew better! I was asking because I’m worried about continuing a practice that is potentially offensive to others or that perhaps I had been given wrong information by the person at the newcomers table, since I had read the opposite on this forum. As it is such a large parish, I have only had the chance to speak with the priest once, and that was only for a few moments. Whoever was at the newcomers table that told us it was okay to receive a blessing appeared to me to be just a regular member volunteering.

Oh, of course you wouldn’t. I was making a bit of levity since I read an intensity in comments sometimes here that belies how we, the clergy, deal with these matters among ourselves. It rather defies me at times and I am left wondering why some people become so exercised about the matter – the parish priest is the one who answers to his bishop and God for the decisions he makes.

I hope you have a wonderful journey toward Catholicism and are in a warm and nurturing parish. I hope you feel very welcomed there – for indeed you should.

I should have qualified my one comment in hindsight. There will be some activities that your parish priest will likely say you should wait until after you are received into full communion to do…such as if you were wanting to volunteer for visiting the homebound or for certain liturgical roles, for example…although I remember having one, a candidate who was baptised, reading at Mass before she was received into full communion. I had a cantor, too, in the same situation…such a beautiful voice and put to into the rotation right away

Bible studies and parents groups and all those sorts of activities or ministries to poor or those on the periphery…I can only imagine they will welcome you with open arms.

I wish you a blessed Easter and pray you will be Catholic for next Easter!

 

[phil19034]

Hard to add to what Father has already posted above. However, I will add just the following: the reason most of the posts say “stay in the seat” is because they are mostly dealing with situations where no one knows the custom of the parish. As Father mentioned, it differs from diocese to diocese and sometimes from parish to parish.

God Bless, have a blessed journey into the Church and Happy Easter!

 

[Don_Ruggero]

As it is such a large parish, I have only had the chance to speak with the priest once, and that was only for a few moments. Whoever was at the newcomers table that told us it was okay to receive a blessing appeared to me to be just a regular member volunteering.

Oh, I just had a thought about your post and circled back to it. Some of the really large American parishes have a supplementary RCIA programme – that is to say, they do the programme twice per year instead of just once per year. You should ask about that possibility, in case it is available. You won’t have to wait so long.

A blessed Easter once again, to you and yours.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

So I have read a few threads on here, and the general consensus seems to be that if you are not Catholic you should stay in your seat for the Eucharist, not go up for a blessing. The parish we attend (we are seriously considering conversion, we are Protestant, but we missed RCIA this year) has over 3,000 people. The first week we went we tried to hang back, and it was slightly disruptive because the ushers didn’t seem to understand why we were hanging back, and because the way the pews are a long string of people have to go through your pew and you are basically taking up aisle space that is needed for the lines (we have four of us in Mass).

We also noticed that the practice of giving blessings with arms folded across your chest was practiced by all the little children and a few adults.

So the second week we went to the newcomers table and asked what we should do. The people there said go up and get a blessing, you don’t need to stay seated. So we have done that ever since, and no one has looked at us funny. Because of what I read here though, I’m wondering, are we doing the right thing? And if we should stay seated, how do we make it less disruptive?

And finally, I realize the membership process is long. So are we welcome to continue to participate at Mass, join Bible studies, etc while not members?

Way back when I was going through RCIA, and still Protestant, I was informed by the priest to join the queue and approach the minister of communion with my arms crossed over my chest, and I would be given a blessing.

That’s in an Australian parish, so I would presume it’s pretty much the norm anywhere. I’m not sure about heavily Catholic countries where Protestants and others are a minority (eg. Italy, Latin America), but there must be some code of practice for this issue.

As far as I’m concerned, you did exactly what was required. Of course you can stay seated, but that means everybody has to walk past the four of you in the restricted space between the pews, often with prayer rails still left down on the floor to add to the obstacle course.

There might be cultural differences between parishes, for various reasons. In our main parish church, we’re not required to kneel during communion if we prefer not to, because the floor is made of very hard ceramic or porcelain tiles, and there are no prayer rails or cushions (we only have chairs). We can kneel if we want to though.

But in the other two churches in the parish, we kneel.

We did, notwithstanding, kneel during the Good Friday mass in the main parish, tiles or no tiles, if we could.

 

[Brendan_64]

So the second week we went to the newcomers table and asked what we should do. The people there said go up and get a blessing, you don’t need to stay seated. So we have done that ever since, and no one has looked at us funny. Because of what I read here though, I’m wondering, are we doing the right thing? And if we should stay seated, how do we make it less disruptive?

And finally, I realize the membership process is long. So are we welcome to continue to participate at Mass, join Bible studies, etc while not members?

It is not only non-Catholics who should not receive Holy Communion, but also (for a different reason) any Catholic not in a state of grace. The norm is indeed to remain in the pew and the practice of receiving blessings is not an official liturgical practice and has developed because people were presenting themselves to the priest in the Communion line, but were not in a suitable condition to receive Communion. All people in the Church are blessed as a matter of course during the Mass so going up with one’s arms crossed in the Communion line serves no real purpose (particularly if it is an EMHC who is giving Communion at the end of the line) although there is nothing inherently wrong in it. Personally I would stay in my pew and make an act of Spiritual Communion if I was unable to receive (either through being a Catholic not in a state of grace, or if I was a non-Catholic).

As for all other activities in the Church (Bible studies, Exposition of the Eucharist, Stations of the Cross, Rosary groups, and pretty much almost everything else (short of becoming a catechist, a reader or an EMHC) you are not only allowed to take part, but you should be actively encouraged and you ought to be welcomed with open arms. So jump right in and get involved in these things, and most importantly speak to the parish priest and enquire about joining the RCIA programme. Although technically speaking you don’t actually need RCIA in order to become a Catholic, and as a baptised Christian anyway your situation is very different from a non-baptised person wishing to become a Catholic. RCIA is not a mandatory thing (but for practical purposes in the end it is up to the parish priest).

Welcome!

 

[eatpraylove11]

Welcome to the church

Before I was confirmed, I used to go up to the front with arms crossed for a blessing.

 

[paperwight66]

It is not only non-Catholics who should not receive Holy Communion, but also (for a different reason) any Catholic not in a state of grace. The norm is indeed to remain in the pew and the practice of receiving blessings is not an official liturgical practice and has developed because people were presenting themselves to the priest in the Communion line, but were not in a suitable condition to receive Communion.

Well, it depends on what you mean by ‘official liturgical practice’, doesn’t it.

Here in England and Wales, it 's official as it can be, in everyday terms, as it has been actively encouraged by the Archbishops and Bishops since the Swanwick Conference in the 1970’s,

There has been no definitive prohibition from Rome, despite the off-quoted letter. If there was anything wrong, I rather think it would have been put a stop to by now. After all, we’ve had a couple of Popes visit us in that time,

 

[Brendan_64]

Well, it depends on what you mean by ‘official liturgical practice’, doesn’t it.

Here in England and Wales, it 's official as it can be, in everyday terms, as it has been actively encouraged by the Archbishops and Bishops since the Swanwick Conference in the 1970’s,

There has been no definitive prohibition from Rome, despite the off-quoted letter. If there was anything wrong, I rather think it would have been put a stop to by now. After all, we’ve had a couple of Popes visit us in that time,

I also live in England and I have never heard it encouraged by any bishop. I have also heard priests actively tell the congregation that it is not necessary and encourage them to stay in their seats, but still people come forward (even after that). It serves no purpose and is even more problematic when there is an EMCH giving Communion. What is the EMHC to do in this situation? The EMHC can’t administer a blessing, the laity are not permitted to administer blessings at Mass.

Going up with arms crossed serves no liturgical purpose, could result in EMHCs doing something they are forbidden to (i.e. give a blessing at Mass), makes a nonsense of the whole purpose of having to use EMHCs (i.e that they are only used out of true necessity if the priest is infirm or when there is an exceedingly large number of people receiving Communion) and has no real point as everyone in the Church gets blessed by the priest shortly after Communion anyway.

madisoncatholicherald.org/guestcolumn/2517-matenaer.html

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Well, it depends on what you mean by ‘official liturgical practice’, doesn’t it.

Here in England and Wales, it 's official as it can be, in everyday terms, as it has been actively encouraged by the Archbishops and Bishops since the Swanwick Conference in the 1970’s,

There has been no definitive prohibition from Rome, despite the off-quoted letter. If there was anything wrong, I rather think it would have been put a stop to by now. After all, we’ve had a couple of Popes visit us in that time,

Just to add to what you have written. The oft-quoted letter is by a priest who is a priest-undersecretary in the CDWDS…while the policy that you reference, that is as official as official can be, was just most recently presented once again by the bishop who oversaw the liturgy office for the conference – oversaw it until the Pope then named him as His Grace, the Archbishop and number 2 official of the CDWDS. Life is interesting.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I also live in England and I have never heard it encouraged by any bishop. I have also heard priests actively tell the congregation that it is not necessary and encourage them to stay in their seats, but still people come forward (even after that). It serves no purpose and is even more problematic when there is an EMCH giving Communion. What is the EMHC to do in this situation? The EMHC can’t administer a blessing, the laity are not permitted to administer blessings at Mass.

Going up with arms crossed serves no liturgical purpose, could result in EMHCs doing something they are forbidden to (i.e. give a blessing at Mass), makes a nonsense of the whole purpose of having to use EMHCs (i.e that they are only used out of true necessity if the priest is infirm or when there is an exceedingly large number of people receiving Communion) and has no real point as everyone in the Church gets blessed by the priest shortly after Communion anyway.

You may consult paragraph 212…page 95 of “Celebrating the Mass : A Pastoral Introduction” which was presented by Arthur Roche, then Bishop of Leeds and then chairman of the Department of the Department for Christian Life and Worship, now Archbishop and Secretary of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, by elevation of Pope Francis.

liturgyoffice.org.uk/Resources/GIRM/Documents/CTM.pdf

Even though some in the assembly may not receive ‘sacramental’ Communion, all are united in some way by the Holy Spirit. The traditional idea of ‘spiritual’ communion is an important one to remember and reaffirm. The invitation often given at Mass to those who may not receive sacramental communion – for example children before their First Communion and adults who are not Catholics – to receive a ‘blessing’ at the moment of Communion emphasises that a deep spiritual communion is possible even when we do not share together the Sacrament of the Body and Blood of Christ.

 

[Brendan_64]

You may consult paragraph 212…page 95 of “Celebrating the Mass : A Pastoral Introduction” which was presented by Arthur Roche, then Bishop of Leeds and then chairman of the Department of the Department for Christian Life and Worship, now Archbishop and Secretary of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments by elevation of Pope Francis.

liturgyoffice.org.uk/Resources/GIRM/Documents/CTM.pdf

By that are you implying that EMHCs ought to administer blessings to people presenting themselves, arms crossed, in the Communion lines?

Article 18 in the Book of Blessings, “Whenever a priest or deacon is present, the office of presiding [over a blessing] should be left to him.”

On Certain Questions Regarding the Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful in the Sacred Ministry of Priest (1997) indicates that the laity should never say prayers or perform actions during the Mass which are proper to the priest, as this may lead to a confusion of roles.

Since the blessing of the congregation during Mass is reserved to the priest, EMHCs (or any other lay-person) must refrain from doing so.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

By that are you implying that EMHCs ought to administer blessings to people presenting themselves, arms crossed, in the Communion lines?

Article 18 in the Book of Blessings, “Whenever a priest or deacon is present, the office of presiding [over a blessing] should be left to him.”

On Certain Questions Regarding the Collaboration of the Non-Ordained Faithful in the Sacred Ministry of Priest (1997) indicates that the laity should never say prayers or perform actions during the Mass which are proper to the priest, as this may lead to a confusion of roles.

Since the blessing of the congregation during Mass is reserved to the priest, EMHCs (or any other lay-person) must refrain from doing so.

I am not implying anything.

I am not the diocesan bishop…that decision is his.

If I am in a diocese where the bishop says they don’t do it, then I instruct them not to do it.

If, on the other hand, I am in a diocese where the bishop says they are to do it, then that’s precisely what I would have them do.

Either way, I do not argue with the diocesan bishop…HE is the moderator of the liturgy in his diocese and not anyone else.
*Blessing by an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion

Question: Can an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion (EMHC) give a blessing to a person who comes to them in the communion line with arms crossed?

Answer: The answer is yes.*
dosp.org/worship/wp-content/uploads/sites/28/Can-an-Extraordinary-Minister-of-Communion-give-a-blessing.pdf

 

[Brendan_64]

I am not implying anything.

I am not the diocesan bishop…that decision is his.

If I am in a diocese where the bishop says they don’t do it, then I instruct them not to do it.

If, on the other hand, I am in a diocese where the bishop says they are to do it, then that’s precisely what I would have them do.

Either way, I do not argue with the diocesan bishop…HE is the moderator of the liturgy in his diocese and not anyone else.
*Blessing by an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion

Question: Can an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion (EMHC) give a blessing to a person who comes to them in the communion line with arms crossed?

Answer: The answer is yes.*
dosp.org/worship/wp-content/uploads/sites/28/Can-an-Extraordinary-Minister-of-Communion-give-a-blessing.pdf

The bishop of St Petersburg does not have jurisdiction outside of his own diocese. The Congregation for the Clergy, the Pontifical Council for the Laity, the CDF, the CDWDS, the Congregation for Bishops, the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples, the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, and the Pontifical Council for the Interpretation of Legislative Texts (all of which are signatories to “On certain questions regarding the collaboration of the non-ordained faithful in the ministry of the priest”) have jurisdiction that applies to the whole Church.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

The bishop of St Petersburg does not have jurisdiction outside of his own diocese. The Congregation for the Clergy, the Pontifical Council for the Laity, the CDF, the CDWDS, the Congregation for Bishops, the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples, the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, and the Pontifical Council for the Interpretation of Legislative Texts (all of which are signatories to “On certain questions regarding the collaboration of the non-ordained faithful in the ministry of the priest”) have jurisdiction that applies to the whole Church.

Thank you but I am actually quite aware of how jurisdiction in the Church works…particularly among the dicasteries. I have been familiar with it for decades.

Which is why I said that if I am in a diocese where the bishop forbids it, then I don’t do it.

If I am in a diocese where the bishop commands it, then it is done.

Precisely because the jurisdiction of a diocesan bishop is coterminous with the boundary of his diocese, that works both ways…those who command to do it and those who forbid its being done extends the width and breadth of their diocese’s borders.

I can tell you, since you seem very interested in this subject, that a number of bishops petitioned for a resolution of this disputed question on the occasion of the Synod on the Eucharist in 2005, specifically asking the Pope to clarify the matter. It’s in the lineamenta. He chose not to favour their petition. In spite of the fact that he himself imparted these blessings and spoke about them actually, as did his predecessor before him.

I can also tell you that when the undersecretary wrote the oft-quoted letter, he limited his remarks in light of the fact that the matter was currently under review and the Congregation would soon be issuing a resolution. It’s only been some ten years – I am sure their resolution will someday appear, whenever the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments deems such resolution is opportune and the Holy Father approves it for publication.

In the absence of a definitive directive from the Holy See, personally I fully comply with the directive of the diocesan bishop, since it is his decision…and I really don’t give the matter that much thought beyond that since the decision does not rest with me – and far less does it rest with any member of any parish’s congregation, for that matter.

 

[Memaw]

It is not only non-Catholics who should not receive Holy Communion, but also (for a different reason) any Catholic not in a state of grace. The norm is indeed to remain in the pew and the practice of receiving blessings is not an official liturgical practice and has developed because people were presenting themselves to the priest in the Communion line, but were not in a suitable condition to receive Communion. All people in the Church are blessed as a matter of course during the Mass so going up with one’s arms crossed in the Communion line serves no real purpose (particularly if it is an EMHC who is giving Communion at the end of the line) although there is nothing inherently wrong in it. Personally I would stay in my pew and make an act of Spiritual Communion if I was unable to receive (either through being a Catholic not in a state of grace, or if I was a non-Catholic).

As for all other activities in the Church (Bible studies, Exposition of the Eucharist, Stations of the Cross, Rosary groups, and pretty much almost everything else (short of becoming a catechist, a reader or an EMHC) you are not only allowed to take part, but you should be actively encouraged and you ought to be welcomed with open arms. So jump right in and get involved in these things, and most importantly speak to the parish priest and enquire about joining the RCIA programme. Although technically speaking you don’t actually need RCIA in order to become a Catholic, and as a baptised Christian anyway your situation is very different from a non-baptised person wishing to become a Catholic. RCIA is not a mandatory thing (but for practical purposes in the end it is up to the parish priest).

Welcome!

I agree, Things get started by lay people and then they catch on like wildfire. Such as holding hands during the Lords Prayer, Not saying AMEN at the end of the Lords Prayer outside of Mass, (we say Amen at the end of every other prayer!) Holding arms up during the OF in Mass, Going up for a Blessing at Communion, especially to a lay person. Hugging and kissing during the Sign of Peace. All these are not part of the Rubrics. They are distractions. I even think singing during and right after Holy Communion is a distraction from private time with Our Lord. (that’s my personal opinion ) At the end of Mass, we, (everyone) receive a Final Blessing that is sending us out into the world to do God’s Will. Take what we have received and share it with others. Seems the lay people are trying to direct how the Mass should be done. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Brendan_64]

I agree, Things get started by lay people and then they catch on like wildfire. Such as holding hands during the Lords Prayer, Not saying AMEN at the end of the Lords Prayer outside of Mass, (we say Amen at the end of every other prayer!) Holding arms up during the OF in Mass, Going up for a Blessing at Communion, especially to a lay person. Hugging and kissing during the Sign of Peace. All these are not part of the Rubrics. They are distractions. I even think singing during and right after Holy Communion is a distraction from private time with Our Lord. (that’s my personal opinion ) At the end of Mass, we, (everyone) receive a Final Blessing that is sending us out into the world to do God’s Will. Take what we have received and share it with others. Seems the lay people are trying to direct how the Mass should be done. God Bless, Memaw

Well said. To me it seems to be all about this notion of ‘inclusion’. The need to feel ‘included’ in the Communion line as if by not going up you’re missing out on something that others are doing. It all seems to be about ‘doing stuff’, expressing your emotion, joining in, self-expression.

 

[bitterhope]

I agree, Things get started by lay people and then they catch on like wildfire. Such as holding hands during the Lords Prayer, Not saying AMEN at the end of the Lords Prayer outside of Mass, (we say Amen at the end of every other prayer!) Holding arms up during the OF in Mass, Going up for a Blessing at Communion, especially to a lay person. Hugging and kissing during the Sign of Peace. All these are not part of the Rubrics. They are distractions. I even think singing during and right after Holy Communion is a distraction from private time with Our Lord. (that’s my personal opinion ) At the end of Mass, we, (everyone) receive a Final Blessing that is sending us out into the world to do God’s Will. Take what we have received and share it with others. Seems the lay people are trying to direct how the Mass should be done. God Bless, Memaw

They are all local traditions in some areas though. They are not wrong and nothing specifically prevents them. They are allowed and often encouraged in some areas based on the traditions of that area. Just as we would not recognize some things that occur at Mass in Africa, they would not be wrong for following their own traditions. We are not wrong for not following theirs but instead following our own local traditions. If something is not specifically condemned I don’t see how we can call them wrong.

We move a lot and honestly the thing I’ve noticed is Mass in one diocese can be very different than the diocese right next door. I don’t see it as wrong. I have seen many things that are wrong over the years, but I find the local traditions add variety and beauty to the Mass. They dont take anything away or disrespect our faith. I don’t understand why so many people get so stubborn about their favorite way to “do it right” instead of embracing the beauty of diversity in traditions.