What to do with a Muslim friend?

[jonbhorton]

I am curious of the posters here if anyone has read the koran?

Yes. I’ve also read hadith, stay current on shariah implementation, read arguments from both sides, arguments from third-parties, etc. Interviews with ex-followers, have dated a few Arab women, one of which has two degrees from universities in Iraq (one in Arabic, one in English lit) and is a former pious muslima; acquaintances who are mohammedan. Also make frequent use of websites and social groups devoted to non-Western mohammedanism.

The system of mohammedanism itself is the issue. Those who give themselves over to this system are the issue. Those who are ignorant of what they’ve really been or become a part of, I hold out hope for.

 

[Kristin234]

Yes, of course Islam is a genuine religion and of course the great prophet Mohammed is in Heaven. The stuffy old dogma of “extra ecclesiam nulla salus” was thankfully done away with by Vatican II. The Vatican II document on the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Lemun Gentium, clearly teaches us that the religion of Islam is a means to salvation

I cannot believe I just read this. If you believe the Bible and the Word of God then you would know this in no way is true.

Islam denies that Jesus Christ is God. Islam denies the trinity. Islam denies that we are saved by the precious blood of Jesus Christ. Islam denies the crucifixion. And Islam denies that it is through Jesus and ONLY Jesus that we are saved.

“But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven”

 

[Aaronmc90]

Agree with the above poster, some of the comments here are extremely troubling, my heart literally sank in my chest, if you don’t need to believe in Jesus to go to heaven, than why did the early Church Fathers go through so much effort to spread the message? why face death over it then? why tell anybody about it…

If someone like muhammed, who was a liar (scientific errors and contradictions in quran and authentic hadith) rapist, pedophile, murderer, torturer, suicidal (attempted suicide at least on one occasion) Christ denier can go to heaven, than who goes to hell?

Personally, Ted Bundy and Chairman Mao where better candidates to be in Heaven than muhammed or any of his followers, sad but true

 

[Trebor135]

I am curious of the posters here if anyone has read the Koran?

I have read parts of the Qur’an, but in consequence I would not recommend picking up the book as a stand-alone work of literature along the lines of J.R.R. Tolkien’s The Hobbit. The Qur’an can be very convoluted, vague, and confusing. The language in which it is written is the poetic form of a seventh-century Arabic dialect. The suras are not arranged chronologically but (mostly) by length. Under the widely accepted doctrine of naskh / نسخ (abrogation), the archangel Gabriel revealed pairs or groups of verses in which the first was/were temporary and the last was/were permanent: in other words, some verses cancel each other out. Keeping the works of early Qur’anic exegetes at one’s fingertips while reading the Qur’an would likely help to clarify many things.

 

[Trebor135]

Also…

The killers didn’t, but the prior of the monastery left his testament which can be found here:

Dom Christian de Chergé testament (this is their order’s official website)

Thanks for the link. I shall file it away for future reading.

Same here; after my return I too was attacked by evangelicals at the place I worked. That’s when apologetics came in handy.

Indeed.

I think we have to be reasonable in our expectations. Mass conversion after growing to over 1 billion in 1500 years just isn’t going to happen. Peaceful coexistence might be more realistic, and individual conversions are always welcome. Given the realities of Muslim countries though, it’s unlikely to happen much over there. Perhaps there’s more chance here but I’d say that those chances are limited too but mostly because Christians are seen as hypocrites. The Church sex scandals have no doubt made the job that much more difficult. I think conversion of others goes hand-in-hand with our own genuine inner conversion.

I do not really disagree with you here.

I make no claim that Christians can do anything. The claim I make is that traditionally has been the modus operandi of the Benedictines, and as I understand it, also the Franciscans, and many other missionary orders. Carrying the Gospel to foreign lands means primarily living the Gospel. We have examples where attempts were made to force conversions; the Residential Schools in Canada come to mind. Not so successful.

I have not advocated “forced conversions”, just doing more than community service in foreign lands. I am by no means saying, though, that “living the Gospel” should fall by the wayside. From James chapter two:

[14] What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?
[15] If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food,
[16] and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit?

Honestly. And perhaps with analogy to simplify the Trinity into human terms because the Trinity is their major obstacle.

Then our positions are not as far apart as they first seemed.

BTW I have an easier time dialoguing with Muslims than JW’s!

Do you have any ideas on why this is the case?

 

[Moro_Rock]

Faith is a gift. You should pray for your friend to receive this gift. God is just and merciful - if your friend is an honest and good person doing his best to follow his conscience, he will not be condemned to hell. Have you heard the story of Saint Francis and Sultan? catholic.org/diocese/diocese_story.php?id=21816 Perhaps you can invoke his intercession for your friend.

Also, be careful to which Marian apparitions you pay attention - not all of them are in line with the Church teaching. It is much better to consult the Catechism of Catholic Church on these matters. It is good you have concern for your friend’s eternal salvation, but do not let this distress you - pray for your friend and have trust in God. Sometimes, when I get anxious about things, I like to say a prayer of St. Therese of Avila:
Let nothing disturb you,
Let nothing frighten you,
All things pass away:
God never changes.
Patience obtains all things.
He who has God
Finds he lacks nothing;
God alone suffices.

Amen to that