What to make of dying with a mortal sin?

[MarshallJackson]

I’m kind of in between a rock and a hard place with this situation. I personally believe that dying with a mortal sin is, obviously, a mortal mistake. But I am scared for the salvation of all those I love. None of my family is Catholic, rather, they are Protestants. As such they do not believe in the need for confession to a priest, but that the confession directly to God is sufficient. I believe the same, but I believe confession is a very useful tool in allowing us to lead the best Christian lives possible. Anyway, I am wondering what the view on this is. Since they don’t go to confession, are they still technically in mortal sin when one is committed? And if they are, does this mean they will be going to hell when they pass away? This is obviously something I struggle with as they are people I love dearly. I am also wondering where the line is drawn on these sorts of things. We all know what John 3:16 says.
I am struggling grasping the idea that, for instance, (I am not saying this is the case, but if it were), if I lived with a mortal sin or a few attached to me, but I truly loved and believed in Jesus in such a way that I prayed and asked forgiveness, and I tried my very hardest to spread his message and live my life as much like him as possible apart from those mortal sins, that I would be going to hell. Can anyone help me out with this or give me any advice or information that can help? I’m rather shaken up right now, so thank you for your understanding.

 

[dshix]

I’m kind of in between a rock and a hard place with this situation. I personally believe that dying with a mortal sin is, obviously, a mortal mistake. But I am scared for the salvation of all those I love. None of my family is Catholic, rather, they are Protestants. As such they do not believe in the need for confession to a priest, but that the confession directly to God is sufficient. I believe the same, but I believe confession is a very useful tool in allowing us to lead the best Christian lives possible. Anyway, I am wondering what the view on this is. Since they don’t go to confession, are they still technically in mortal sin when one is committed? And if they are, does this mean they will be going to hell when they pass away? This is obviously something I struggle with as they are people I love dearly. I am also wondering where the line is drawn on these sorts of things. We all know what John 3:16 says.
I am struggling grasping the idea that, for instance, (I am not saying this is the case, but if it were), if I lived with a mortal sin or a few attached to me, but I truly loved and believed in Jesus in such a way that I prayed and asked forgiveness, and I tried my very hardest to spread his message and live my life as much like him as possible apart from those mortal sins, that I would be going to hell. Can anyone help me out with this or give me any advice or information that can help? I’m rather shaken up right now, so thank you for your understanding.

I feel compassion for your worry.

Your family, who is protestant, CAN reach Heaven. Let’s just start with that. It is possible.

There are two types of contrition.

Perfect contrition, which means that a person is sorry for his sin because he loves God very, very much and is sorry for because he offended God.

Imperfect contrition is when a person is sorry for their sin because they fear punishment (Hell.) This can also be blended with certain sorrow for having offended God, but if a person is partially sorry just because they fear punishment, it is imperfect.

Perfect contrition is very rare, and imperfect contrition is what almost all people are able to make.

Perfect contrition forgives all mortal sins, enabling a person to make it to Heaven after committing a mortal sin even without confession, but it is very, very hard for a person to obtain this perfection of contrition. It is a rare and wonderful blessing.

It is significantly harder for your family, which is Protestant, to make it to Heaven, but if they love God and strive to follow him as well as they can for love of Him, there is a chance that He, in His mercy, will deign to bring them to Heaven with Him.

I love Catholicism. We have the road to Heaven easy, with Confession,

 

[meltzerboy]

I feel compassion for your worry.

Your family, who is protestant, CAN reach Heaven. Let’s just start with that. It is possible.

There are two types of contrition.

Perfect contrition, which means that a person is sorry for his sin because he loves God very, very much and is sorry for because he offended God.

Imperfect contrition is when a person is sorry for their sin because they fear punishment (Hell.) This can also be blended with certain sorrow for having offended God, but if a person is partially sorry just because they fear punishment, it is imperfect.

Perfect contrition is very rare, and imperfect contrition is what almost all people are able to make.

Perfect contrition forgives all mortal sins, enabling a person to make it to Heaven after committing a mortal sin even without confession, but it is very, very hard for a person to obtain this perfection of contrition. It is a rare and wonderful blessing.

It is significantly harder for your family, which is Protestant, to make it to Heaven, but if they love God and strive to follow him as well as they can for love of Him, there is a chance that He, in His mercy, will deign to bring them to Heaven with Him.

I love Catholicism. We have the road to Heaven easy, with Confession,

Does Confession also have to be an act of perfect contrition, or is this not necessary? If it is not necessary, why not?

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Confessions are valid with either perfect or imperfect contrition, that is what makes the sacrament so powerful ^^

 

[Robertanthony]

There is a famous retired comedian here in French-speaking Canada who had a number (he called them “monologues”, but that’s not the point) where he expressed his bewilderment with the Catholic doctrine on hell. Speaking as if he was a teenager, he talks about his schoolfriend, an otherwise nice guy, who hid in a snowbank to be able to masturbate quietly, a snowblower is run on that particular street, whoever operates the snowblower doesn’t see the kid and he ends up dying a horrible death. Meanwhile, a man who has led a horrible life, leaving behind a trail of devastated victims, a child molester I think he was, decides to kill himself, jump off a bridge, seconds before he hits the St.Lawrence River, he has a thought, “I’ve been a horrible man, I’m sorry”. Conclusion was that his friend, a decent young guy, was in hell suffering for ever, while the other guy was in heaven, with an eternity of happiness, joy and bliss.

 

[MarshallJackson]

There is a famous retired comedian here in French-speaking Canada who had a number (he called them “monologues”, but that’s not the point) where he expressed his bewilderment with the Catholic doctrine on hell. Speaking as if he was a teenager, he talks about his schoolfriend, an otherwise nice guy, who hid in a snowbank to be able to masturbate quietly, a snowblower is run on that particular street, whoever operates the snowblower doesn’t see the kid and he ends up dying a horrible death. Meanwhile, a man who has led a horrible life, leaving behind a trail of devastated victims, a child molester I think he was, decides to kill himself, jump off a bridge, seconds before he hits the St.Lawrence River, he has a thought, “I’ve been a horrible man, I’m sorry”. Conclusion was that his friend, a decent young guy, was in hell suffering for ever, while the other guy was in heaven, with an eternity of happiness, joy and bliss.

That is kind of interesting and funny in an ironic sort of way haha. Maybe it is safe to say that we can’t exactly know how it happens, but that God will take everything into account during our judgement? I’m starting to think that our judgement can’t really just be a black and white thing. I think only God can take everything into account, because he is the only one who can judge us anyway. I don’t think he would simply brush off the fact that someone has tried to see to it that his will be done. Do you guys know what I mean?

 

[ProdglArchitect]

There is a famous retired comedian here in French-speaking Canada who had a number (he called them “monologues”, but that’s not the point) where he expressed his bewilderment with the Catholic doctrine on hell. Speaking as if he was a teenager, he talks about his schoolfriend, an otherwise nice guy, who hid in a snowbank to be able to masturbate quietly, a snowblower is run on that particular street, whoever operates the snowblower doesn’t see the kid and he ends up dying a horrible death. Meanwhile, a man who has led a horrible life, leaving behind a trail of devastated victims, a child molester I think he was, decides to kill himself, jump off a bridge, seconds before he hits the St.Lawrence River, he has a thought, “I’ve been a horrible man, I’m sorry”. Conclusion was that his friend, a decent young guy, was in hell suffering for ever, while the other guy was in heaven, with an eternity of happiness, joy and bliss.

This argument is flawed in oh so many ways, but I’ll focus on the two main ones, each relating to one of the participants in this little diatribe.

#1: In order for it to be a mortal sin on the part of the teenager, he would have to understand that the act is a grave matter and also assent to it freely (I know this is a sin, but whatever, I’m doing it anyways). In that case, he made his decision, and the consequences are his to bear. I would also like to point out that the Church has always taught the the age and maturity of the sinner plays a role in determining whether or not a sin is considered mortal. It is highly likely that, as a teenager who has not yet developed a full sense of right and wrong, and who is under a heavy influence from all manner of hormones. it would not be counted as a mortal sin, though I cannot say that for certain.

#2: In order for the man to be forgiven, it would have to be an act of perfect contrition. He would basically, as he’s falling, have to have an intense, blinding insight into the nature of reality and God. After having this insight, he would suddenly have to develop a full sense of remorse born of his love for God (whom who only just came to know even slightly as he was falling). In order for all of this to happen, the man would have to be willing to let God into his heart. Generally, by the time you’ve reached the point the man has, you’ve hardened your heart completely against God, and wouldn’t let him in even if he was standing right in front of you (this, incidentally, is why people go to Hell, they’ve closed themselves to God through their choices, and God respects their wish to be without him). However, if, by a miracle, the man were to be truly remorseful for his sin, and grow to completely love God as he was falling, then why shouldn’t we rejoice in his repentance? It’s very likely he’ll be in purgatory till judgment day being cleansed, but why wouldn’t we be happy that someone repented? We all deserve Hell, it is only through God’s mercy that we are spared.

 

[Robertanthony]

This argument is flawed in oh so many ways, but I’ll focus on the two main ones, each relating to one of the participants in this little diatribe.

#1: In order for it to be a mortal sin on the part of the teenager, he would have to understand that the act is a grave matter and also assent to it freely (I know this is a sin, but whatever, I’m doing it anyways). In that case, he made his decision, and the consequences are his to bear. I would also like to point out that the Church has always taught the the age and maturity of the sinner plays a role in determining whether or not a sin is considered mortal. It is highly likely that, as a teenager who has not yet developed a full sense of right and wrong, and who is under a heavy influence from all manner of hormones. it would not be counted as a mortal sin, though I cannot say that for certain.

#2: In order for the man to be forgiven, it would have to be an act of perfect contrition. He would basically, as he’s falling, have to have an intense, blinding insight into the nature of reality and God. After having this insight, he would suddenly have to develop a full sense of remorse born of his love for God (whom who only just came to know even slightly as he was falling). In order for all of this to happen, the man would have to be willing to let God into his heart. Generally, by the time you’ve reached the point the man has, you’ve hardened your heart completely against God, and wouldn’t let him in even if he was standing right in front of you (this, incidentally, is why people go to Hell, they’ve closed themselves to God through their choices, and God respects their wish to be without him). However, if, by a miracle, the man were to be truly remorseful for his sin, and grow to completely love God as he was falling, then why shouldn’t we rejoice in his repentance? It’s very likely he’ll be in purgatory till judgment day being cleansed, but why wouldn’t we be happy that someone repented? We all deserve Hell, it is only through God’s mercy that we are spared.

Nothing against you, is there one official Church document that states plainly that us human beings, because of what our common ancestors did once way back then thousands of years ago, why we poor banished children of E deserve hell? That’s quite a statement. If your statement is true, and God is truly like you depict him, then maybe a new life isn’t something to rejoice about.

 

[sw85]

There is a famous retired comedian here in French-speaking Canada who had a number (he called them “monologues”, but that’s not the point) where he expressed his bewilderment with the Catholic doctrine on hell. Speaking as if he was a teenager, he talks about his schoolfriend, an otherwise nice guy, who hid in a snowbank to be able to masturbate quietly, a snowblower is run on that particular street, whoever operates the snowblower doesn’t see the kid and he ends up dying a horrible death. Meanwhile, a man who has led a horrible life, leaving behind a trail of devastated victims, a child molester I think he was, decides to kill himself, jump off a bridge, seconds before he hits the St.Lawrence River, he has a thought, “I’ve been a horrible man, I’m sorry”. Conclusion was that his friend, a decent young guy, was in hell suffering for ever, while the other guy was in heaven, with an eternity of happiness, joy and bliss.

Yeah, I’ve heard this line of argument before. It’s always “why doesn’t everyone I hate go to Hell while precious wonderful me gets to go to heaven? I’m such a great person, I don’t need to repent!” Curious how the “good person” is always a masturbator, too.

We shouldn’t begrudge other people their salvation. We should rejoice that even serial killers can be saved. If they can be saved, anyone can be.

 

[Robertanthony]

This argument is flawed in oh so many ways, but I’ll focus on the two main ones, each relating to one of the participants in this little diatribe.

#1: In order for it to be a mortal sin on the part of the teenager, he would have to understand that the act is a grave matter and also assent to it freely (I know this is a sin, but whatever, I’m doing it anyways). In that case, he made his decision, and the consequences are his to bear. I would also like to point out that the Church has always taught the the age and maturity of the sinner plays a role in determining whether or not a sin is considered mortal. It is highly likely that, as a teenager who has not yet developed a full sense of right and wrong, and who is under a heavy influence from all manner of hormones. it would not be counted as a mortal sin, though I cannot say that for certain.

#2: In order for the man to be forgiven, it would have to be an act of perfect contrition. He would basically, as he’s falling, have to have an intense, blinding insight into the nature of reality and God. After having this insight, he would suddenly have to develop a full sense of remorse born of his love for God (whom who only just came to know even slightly as he was falling). In order for all of this to happen, the man would have to be willing to let God into his heart. Generally, by the time you’ve reached the point the man has, you’ve hardened your heart completely against God, and wouldn’t let him in even if he was standing right in front of you (this, incidentally, is why people go to Hell, they’ve closed themselves to God through their choices, and God respects their wish to be without him). However, if, by a miracle, the man were to be truly remorseful for his sin, and grow to completely love God as he was falling, then why shouldn’t we rejoice in his repentance? It’s very likely he’ll be in purgatory till judgment day being cleansed, but why wouldn’t we be happy that someone repented? We all deserve Hell, it is only through God’s mercy that we are spared.

Because they may have made life very hard for the people around them, they may have closed their children’s hearts off to love (of self, others and God), they may have been instrumental in their damnation. I have an uncle whose children all committed suicide because he was a horrible father and created a life of misery for them all. I don’t want him enjoying the cool breeze of heaven while one of his kids is parched in hell because he failed him miserably as a father, instead he was his own kid’s worst enemy. When you’ve led someone to hell is where I draw the line to wish someone was in heaven.

 

[Robertanthony]

Yeah, I’ve heard this line of argument before. It’s always “why doesn’t everyone I hate go to Hell while precious wonderful me gets to go to heaven? I’m such a great person, I don’t need to repent!” Curious how the “good person” is always a masturbator, too.
We shouldn’t begrudge other people their salvation. We should rejoice that even serial killers can be saved. If they can be saved, anyone can be.

That is a very good observation and one that made me .

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Nothing against you, is there one official Church document that states plainly that us human beings, because of what our common ancestors did once way back then thousands of years ago, why we poor banished children of E deserve hell? That’s quite a statement. If your statement is true, and God is truly like you depict him, then maybe a new life isn’t something to rejoice about.

It has very little to do with what Adam and Eve did. True, their action severed the bond to God, but it is ultimately our decision to reject him over and over again with our sins that results in our unworthiness. God gives us every opportunity to repent and come back to Him, it simply falls to us to accept the invitation.

Because they may have made life very hard for the people around them, they may have closed their children’s hearts off to love (of self, others and God), they may have been instrumental in their damnation. I have an uncle whose children all committed suicide because he was a horrible father and created a life of misery for them all. I don’t want him enjoying the cool breeze of heaven while one of his kids is parched in hell because he failed him miserably as a father, instead he was his own kid’s worst enemy. When you’ve led someone to hell is where I draw the line to wish someone was in heaven.

If this is how you feel than you are far more vindictive than I. Put plainly, I don’t even wish Hell on Hitler. I believe that he deserves untold eons of suffering, but I simply am incapable of wishing someone to Hell. As to your story about your uncle, you are making a large number of assumption which you simply don’t have the knowledge required to make. Primarily, suicide is not a one way ticket to Hell, there are a vast number of criteria, as stated above, for determining if a sin is grave. In the the case of your cousins, they suffered a life of abuse, which ultimately reseulted in their suicide. A parent is responsible for teh development of their children, and those who abuse their children can (without proper revelation, as posted above) expect an eternity of suffering:

[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 18:6[/BIBLEDRB] (This is just one example of such statements, this one coming directly from Christ himself)

If your cousins really did commit suicide as a result of their abuse (I say “if” because I am not capable of knowing their mental state, and therefore cannot speak to it in certainty), then it is likely their father who will suffer for those acts, not them. (Again,“likely” because I cannot speak to anything for certain, as I am not God)

You have way too simple a view on the Church’s teachings about Hell and mortal sin. There is far, far more to it than you seem to realize. Perhaps, before you write it off, you should actually study it in depth. (I know you haven’t, or you wouldn’t waste your time giving examples that don’t hold up to even the most basic catechist.)

 

[hansard]

I feel compassion for your worry.

Your family, who is protestant, CAN reach Heaven. Let’s just start with that. It is possible.

(…)

It is significantly harder for your family, which is Protestant, to make it to Heaven, but if they love God and strive to follow him as well as they can for love of Him, there is a chance that He, in His mercy, will deign to bring them to Heaven with Him.

I love Catholicism. We have the road to Heaven easy, with Confession,

Why should people go to Hell, or have a far lesser chance of salvation, just because they happened to be born into a Protestant family?
Most people are whatever religion they are born into. This is especially true of the major religions in the world (for example, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims) and Christians are no different. People born into secular or atheistic families are highly unlikely to take on religion.

If a God-loving, clean-living Protestant has only a “chance” of being saved, then what hope have the vast majority of people who have never been Catholic, let alone any other Christian faith?

It’s nearly always an accident of birth that we are thus or thus. I would almost bet my house that most Catholics believe the way they do because they were taught so from childhood. It’s exactly the same with all other religions.

Do we really believe in a God who condemns people for believing in the way they have been taught from childhood?

For how much longer can we honestly peddle the line that Protestants are less worthy of salvation simply because of some historical division from half a millennium ago?

 

[dshix]

Why should people go to Hell, or have a far lesser chance of salvation, just because they happened to be born into a Protestant family?
Most people are whatever religion they are born into. This is especially true of the major religions in the world (for example, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims) and Christians are no different. People born into secular or atheistic families are highly unlikely to take on religion.

If a God-loving, clean-living Protestant has only a “chance” of being saved, then what hope have the vast majority of people who have never been Catholic, let alone any other Christian faith?

It’s nearly always an accident of birth that we are thus or thus. I would almost bet my house that most Catholics believe the way they do because they were taught so from childhood. It’s exactly the same with all other religions.

Do we really believe in a God who condemns people for believing in the way they have been taught from childhood?

For how much longer can we honestly peddle the line that Protestants are less worthy of salvation simply because of some historical division from half a millennium ago?

You are twisting the situation into something it is not. God does not “condemn” a person for being born into a protestant family. God will give them eternal happiness just the same if they choose to love Him.

The situation here is that it is HARDER to reach Heaven when you do not follow the true faith. How can you find truth when your religion does not teach all truth?

 

[meltzerboy]

Why should people go to Hell, or have a far lesser chance of salvation, just because they happened to be born into a Protestant family?
Most people are whatever religion they are born into. This is especially true of the major religions in the world (for example, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims) and Christians are no different. People born into secular or atheistic families are highly unlikely to take on religion.

If a God-loving, clean-living Protestant has only a “chance” of being saved, then what hope have the vast majority of people who have never been Catholic, let alone any other Christian faith?

It’s nearly always an accident of birth that we are thus or thus. I would almost bet my house that most Catholics believe the way they do because they were taught so from childhood. It’s exactly the same with all other religions.

Do we really believe in a God who condemns people for believing in the way they have been taught from childhood?

For how much longer can we honestly peddle the line that Protestants are less worthy of salvation simply because of some historical division from half a millennium ago?

Judaism does not believe that because one is not born a Jew or converts to the faith that one is going to hell. In fact, the idea of an eternal damnation is quite foreign to Judaism to begin with. According to Jewish belief, one’s eternal destiny depends largely on being a righteous (not self-righteous) person and doing good deeds by helping others and “repairing the world.” Although some do convert to a religion different from that of their upbringing, I think you’re correct in saying that the majority of people remain in the religion of their childhood. Why indeed should they be punished, and for all eternity no less, for what they are not responsible for, especially if they are good people? It’s neither just nor merciful.

 

[hansard]

Thanks for clarifying that, dshix. So, God will grant them salvation if they choose to love him. That’s as it should be. It’s also a great comfort to the millions of Protestants who do, in fact, love God dearly and who cannot change the circumstances of their birth.

 

[fix]

Yeah, I’ve heard this line of argument before. It’s always “why doesn’t everyone I hate go to Hell while precious wonderful me gets to go to heaven? I’m such a great person, I don’t need to repent!” Curious how the “good person” is always a masturbator, too.

We shouldn’t begrudge other people their salvation. We should rejoice that even serial killers can be saved. If they can be saved, anyone can be.

Well said. Everyone is a “good” person these days unless they are a serial killer. The bar is so low that there almost no bar.

 

[Steep]

Let me summarize the message of this thread…

Being a protestant, albeit a good-willed, church-going, fair-intentioned one, will make your path to heaven exponentially tougher, simply because you were born into a family that happens not to be of the Catholic faith.

However, a person who takes 30 seconds to create a user name on CAF not only has an easier path into heaven, but also reserves the right to judge people born into the Protestant faith and explain that they are less deserving of heaven simply because of what they are taught.

Little tip, guys…you should use this website to make the Catholic Church look better, not worse.

 

[PeaceInChrist]

Let me summarize the message of this thread…

Being a protestant, albeit a good-willed, church-going, fair-intentioned one, will make your path to heaven exponentially tougher, simply because you were born into a family that happens not to be of the Catholic faith.

However, a person who takes 30 seconds to create a user name on CAF not only has an easier path into heaven, but also reserves the right to judge people born into the Protestant faith and explain that they are less deserving of heaven simply because of what they are taught.

Little tip, guys…you should use this website to make the Catholic Church look better, not worse.

This doesn’t appear to me to be even remotely close to what the other posters were saying.

They were saying that, since Catholics can avail themselves of the Sacraments, certain forgiveness of sins is far more certain, even with imperfect contrition, while a Protestant would have to make an act of perfect contrition. This is not at all impossible, but the Sacraments were instituted to help us reach heaven, not hinder us.

The Church does teach that the Sacraments through the Church are the most certain way of receiving sanctifying grace and perseverance in this grace till death. Any other means of salvation are extraordinary, and we know nothing about the extraordinary means of salvation.

Of course, we hope and pray that even those outside the Church will make perfect contrition in the moments before death, and hope for the salvation of every soul, but it is a true statement that the Sacraments are the only sure way of receiving sanctifying grace and eternal life (even baptism of desire and perfect contrition are extraordinary forms of Sacraments, if I’m not mistaken).

 

[fix]

Let me summarize the message of this thread…

Being a protestant, albeit a good-willed, church-going, fair-intentioned one, will make your path to heaven exponentially tougher, simply because you were born into a family that happens not to be of the Catholic faith.

However, a person who takes 30 seconds to create a user name on CAF not only has an easier path into heaven, but also reserves the right to judge people born into the Protestant faith and explain that they are less deserving of heaven simply because of what they are taught.

Little tip, guys…you should use this website to make the Catholic Church look better, not worse.

No one believes this except you.