What to make of Genesis 3:14

[Vico]

When God made Adam and Eve it states that:

Genesis 1:31 And God saw all the things that he had made, and they were very good. And the evening and morning were the sixth day.

Satan couldn’t have been around as evil at that moment if everything as very good still.

Is this the point when Lucifer saw Adam and Eve as inferior to himself that he decided to rebel?

Maybe he was to be a sort of guardian in Eden.

Ezekiel 28:13 you were in Eden, in the garden of God.

Job 38-4-7 states that the angels were created before the Earth.

 

[Nelka]

Job 38-4-7 states that the angels were created before the Earth.

Oh I agree.

I didn’t mean they were created after I meant Lucifer’s fall from grace.

 

[roseproject]

When God made Adam and Eve it states that:

Genesis 1:31 And God saw all the things that he had made, and they were very good. And the evening and morning were the sixth day.

Satan couldn’t have been around as evil at that moment if everything as very good still.

Is this the point when Lucifer saw Adam and Eve as inferior to himself that he decided to rebel?

Maybe he was to be a sort of guardian in Eden.

Ezekiel 28:13 you were in Eden, in the garden of God.

But then there’s another passage in scripture (I forgot where exactly) that says that Satan “was a liar from the beginning”. Also, that a great multitude of angels fell with him to Hell. I always understood that when it said "beginning, it meant the beginning of their creation, or near the beginning at least. Then elsewhere, it speaks of a great war between the devil’s angels and St. Michael’s angels. Is this a different event?

 

[Vico]

Oh I agree.

I didn’t mean they were created after I meant Lucifer’s fall from grace.

Ok. Well I see that Catholic Encyclopedia states:

As may be gathered from the language of the Lateran definition, the Devil and the other demons are but a part of the angelic creation, and their natural powers do not differ from those of the angels who remained faithful. Like the other angels, they are pure spiritual beings without any body, and in their original state they are endowed with supernatural grace and placed in a condition of probation. It was only by their fall that they became devils. This was before the sin of our first parents, since this sin itself is ascribed to the instigation of the Devil: “By the envy of the Devil, death came into the world” (Wisdom 2:24).
Kent, W. (1908). Devil. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company.
newadvent.org/cathen/04764a.htm

 

[Nelka]

But then there’s another passage in scripture (I forgot where exactly) that says that Satan “was a liar from the beginning”. Also, that a great multitude of angels fell with him to Hell. I always understood that when it said "beginning, it meant the beginning of their creation, or near the beginning at least. Then elsewhere, it speaks of a great war between the devil’s angels and St. Michael’s angels. Is this a different event?

Yes Jesus said from the beginning but God didn’t create him that way.

 

[Nelka]

Ok. Well I see that Catholic Encyclopedia states:

As may be gathered from the language of the Lateran definition, the Devil and the other demons are but a part of the angelic creation, and their natural powers do not differ from those of the angels who remained faithful. Like the other angels, they are pure spiritual beings without any body, and in their original state they are endowed with supernatural grace and placed in a condition of probation. It was only by their fall that they became devils. This was before the sin of our first parents, since this sin itself is ascribed to the instigation of the Devil: “By the envy of the Devil, death came into the world” (Wisdom 2:24).
Kent, W. (1908). Devil. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company.
newadvent.org/cathen/04764a.htm

Very good.

It makes you wonder why he was cast down to Earth and notvstraight to thecLake of Fire.

 

[Vico]

Very good.

It makes you wonder why he was cast down to Earth and notvstraight to thecLake of Fire.

From Catholic Encyclopedia

The foregoing passages, especially those relating to the angels who have charge of various districts, enable us to understand the practically unanimous view of the Fathers that it is the angels who put into execution God’s law regarding the physical world. The Semitic belief in genii and in spirits which cause good or evil is well known, and traces of it are to be found in the Bible. Thus the pestilence which devastated Israel for David’s sin in numbering the people is attributed to an angel whom David is said to have actually seen (2 Samuel 24:15-17), and more explicitly, I Par., xxi, 14-18). Even the wind rustling in the tree-tops was regarded as an angel (2 Samuel 5:23-24; 1 Chronicles 14:14, 15). This is more explicitly stated with regard to the pool of Probatica (John 5:1-4), though there is some doubt about the text; in that passage the disturbance of the water is said to be due to the periodic visits of an angel. The Semites clearly felt that all the orderly harmony of the universe, as well as interruptions of that harmony, were due to God as their originator, but were carried out by His ministers. This view is strongly marked in the “Book of Jubilees” where the heavenly host of good and evil angels is ever interfering in the material universe. Maimonides (Directorium Perplexorum, iv and vi) is quoted by St. Thomas Aquinas (Summa Theologicæ I.1.3) as holding that the Bible frequently terms the powers of nature angels, since they manifest the omnipotence of God (cf. St. Jerome, In Mich., vi, 1, 2; P.L., iv, col. 1206).

Pope, H. (1907). Angels. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company.
newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm

 

[mikekle]

From Catholic Encyclopedia

The foregoing passages, especially those relating to the angels who have charge of various districts, enable us to understand the practically unanimous view of the Fathers that it is the angels who put into execution God’s law regarding the physical world. The Semitic belief in genii and in spirits which cause good or evil is well known, and traces of it are to be found in the Bible. Thus the pestilence which devastated Israel for David’s sin in numbering the people is attributed to an angel whom David is said to have actually seen (2 Samuel 24:15-17), and more explicitly, I Par., xxi, 14-18). Even the wind rustling in the tree-tops was regarded as an angel (2 Samuel 5:23-24; 1 Chronicles 14:14, 15). This is more explicitly stated with regard to the pool of Probatica (John 5:1-4), though there is some doubt about the text; in that passage the disturbance of the water is said to be due to the periodic visits of an angel. The Semites clearly felt that all the orderly harmony of the universe, as well as interruptions of that harmony, were due to God as their originator, but were carried out by His ministers. This view is strongly marked in the “Book of Jubilees” where the heavenly host of good and evil angels is ever interfering in the material universe. Maimonides (Directorium Perplexorum, iv and vi) is quoted by St. Thomas Aquinas (Summa Theologicæ I.1.3) as holding that the Bible frequently terms the powers of nature angels, since they manifest the omnipotence of God (cf. St. Jerome, In Mich., vi, 1, 2; P.L., iv, col. 1206).

Pope, H. (1907). Angels. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company.
newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm

I like to think of angels, demons activities here on earth as sort of like actors on a stage, there is the activity the audience can all see, but there is also a lot going on ‘behind the curtain’ that we cannot see, but effects the stage all the same.

I sometimes think people in the past had it right all along, angels and demons WERE responsible for much of what happens in the world, but in modern, times we call that crazy, and rely on more scientific explanations. I would not be surprised of many of these scientific explanations were bogus, and put out for a specific reason.

 

[Nelka]

I like to think of angels, demons activities here on earth as sort of like actors on a stage, there is the activity the audience can all see, but there is also a lot going on ‘behind the curtain’ that we cannot see, but effects the stage all the same.

I sometimes think people in the past had it right all along, angels and demons WERE responsible for much of what happens in the world, but in modern, times we call that crazy, and rely on more scientific explanations. I would not be surprised of many of these scientific explanations were bogus, and put out for a specific reason.

 

[Richca]

The passage says…

So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,

“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life."~Genesis 3:14

I’m not sure what this passage is implying. Is the passage saying that literal snakes are cursed creatures, but Genesis tells us that it was just the devil disguised as one…But then, if it’s talking metaphorically; about the devil himself, wasn’t the devil already cursed when he turned away from God before the Earth was created or whenever that was?

Thanks in advance

This passage written by the inspired author has some hidden spiritual meaning. I was reading St Augustine’s commentary on psalm 104 the other day and he says the following which is pertinent to the above text of Genesis:

Thou hast heard what the serpent’s meat is. Thou dost not wish that God give thee to be devoured by the serpent (cf. 1 Peter 5:8); because not the serpent’s food: i.e. forsake not the Word of God. For where it is said to the serpent, “Dust thou shalt eat,” it is said to the transgressor, “Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return.”(Gen. 3:19). Thou dost not wish to be the serpent’s food? be not dust. How, thou repliest, shall I not be dust? If thou hast not a taste for earthly things. Hear the Apostle, that thou mayest not be dust. For the body which thou wearest is earth: but do thou refuse to be earth. What meaneth this? “Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.”(Colossians 3:2). If thou dost not set thy affections on earthly things, thou art not earth: if thou art not earth, thou art not devoured by the serpent, whose appointed food is earth.

 

[Richca]

Originally Posted by Vico View Post
From Catholic Encyclopedia
The foregoing passages, especially those relating to the angels who have charge of various districts, enable us to understand the practically unanimous view of the Fathers that it is the angels who put into execution God’s law regarding the physical world. The Semitic belief in genii and in spirits which cause good or evil is well known, and traces of it are to be found in the Bible. Thus the pestilence which devastated Israel for David’s sin in numbering the people is attributed to an angel whom David is said to have actually seen (2 Samuel 24:15-17), and more explicitly, I Par., xxi, 14-18). Even the wind rustling in the tree-tops was regarded as an angel (2 Samuel 5:23-24; 1 Chronicles 14:14, 15). This is more explicitly stated with regard to the pool of Probatica (John 5:1-4), though there is some doubt about the text; in that passage the disturbance of the water is said to be due to the periodic visits of an angel. The Semites clearly felt that all the orderly harmony of the universe, as well as interruptions of that harmony, were due to God as their originator, but were carried out by His ministers. This view is strongly marked in the “Book of Jubilees” where the heavenly host of good and evil angels is ever interfering in the material universe. Maimonides (Directorium Perplexorum, iv and vi) is quoted by St. Thomas Aquinas (Summa Theologicæ I.1.3) as holding that the Bible frequently terms the powers of nature angels, since they manifest the omnipotence of God (cf. St. Jerome, In Mich., vi, 1, 2; P.L., iv, col. 1206).
Pope, H. (1907). Angels. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company.
newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm

I like to think of angels, demons activities here on earth as sort of like actors on a stage, there is the activity the audience can all see, but there is also a lot going on ‘behind the curtain’ that we cannot see, but effects the stage all the same.

I sometimes think people in the past had it right all along, angels and demons WERE responsible for much of what happens in the world, but in modern, times we call that crazy, and rely on more scientific explanations. I would not be surprised of many of these scientific explanations were bogus, and put out for a specific reason.

Well, the only people who would call it crazy are the people without faith and faith in Divine Providence. The CCC#303 says: The witness of Scripture is unanimous that the solicitude of divine providence is concrete and immediate; God cares for all, from the least things to the great events of the world and its history. the sacred books powerfully affirm God’s absolute sovereignty over the course of events"

The scientific explanations you mention here are all concerned with the secondary causes of this corporeal world. Some of these explanations are probably correct and true while others are theories which may be proved to be true or false later. All the secondary causes of this universe are dependent on the first and universal cause which is God. So, the CCC#308 says: The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator. God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes." The angels themselves are secondary causes and God exercises His providence over the corporeal world through their ministrations and tasks which God has appointed to them. Accordingly, the scientific explanations are not a ‘full’ explanation of what we observe that is going on in the world around us. All these explanations are concerned with the secondary causes of the created world which are all dependent on the first cause, God, and His divine providence.