What to say if somebody says to me..."How did the kangaroos and koalas get to Australia? "

[LittleSoldier]

Yes - I authored the diagram. It developed after years of research and debate/dialogue into both faith and science.

The area labeled IDvolution is not the ID the science (as you may think). IDvolution is the area where faith and reason cannot be opposed. You can also see that a large area of faith and reason do not intersect. The diagram is meant to represent information flow - From God through Revelation to faith. And from God through science to reason.

IDvolution posits something more akin to St Augustine’s idea of potentia.

IDvolution, (not the same as Intelligent Design) based on the latest science makes St Thomas happy, St Augustione happy, and is in conformance with the constant teaching and understanding of the Church.

 	 IDvolution - God "breathed" the super  language of DNA into the "kinds" in the creative act.  This accounts  for the diversity of life we see.  The core makeup shared by all living  things have the necessary complex information built in that facilitates  rapid and responsive adaptation of features and variation while being  able to preserve the "kind" that they began as.  Life has been created  with the creativity built in ready to respond to triggering events.

Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on Earth have the same core, it is virtually certain that living organisms have been thought of AT ONCE by the One and the same Creator endowed with the super language we know as DNA that switched on the formation of the various kinds, the cattle, the swimming creatures, the flying creatures, etc… in a pristine harmonious state and superb adaptability and responsiveness to their environment for the purpose of populating the earth that became subject to the ravages of corruption by the sin of one man (deleterious mutations).

Hmmm…I’m beginning to wonder about your omniscience as you are aware that your concept has made saints happy. How do you know they are happy about your concept? And who is St. Augustione? I’ve never heard of him. I assume he was canonized. When did this occur?

Are you saying that Original Sin equals deleterious mutations? OY VEY!!!

If so, then what equals beneficial mutations? And as deleterious mutations usually disappear (as far as I know), doesn’t that mean that Original Sin disappeared quite a long time ago? So why was I baptised?

Your statement “Since it has been demonstrated that all living organisms on Earth have the same core, it is virtually certain that living organisms have been thought of AT ONCE by the One and the same Creator endowed with the super language we know as DNA…” is fallacious. Even I can see that and I never took a class in logic. What makes you think that just because “all living organisms on Earth have the same core” (and I don’t even agree with that) it follows with “virtual certainty” that “living organisms have been thought of AT ONCE”? How come? Why? Why couldn’t they have the same core because they all live on Earth, in an environment which facilitates a same or similar core?

And why can’t there be more than one Creator? Maybe a bunch of creators got together and had lunch and decided to do it in one way, as a united team. I’m speaking logic here, not religion. Why couldn’t extraterrestrials have sent this so-called “super language” (which IMHO isn’t really that super at all) to Earth as part of a seeding project or an experiment?

Your premise does not necessarily lead to your conclusion. It is certainly a possibility but not the only one and until you can prove it is the only one it might be a mistake to use terms like “virtually certain.”

 

[John21652]

Just say they flew Quantas and be done with it.

Kenshin, you nailed it.
Page after page of convoluted argument and no-one picked the obvious answer. Well done mate.
Sheesh, as if they’d travel in an old leaky wooden boat…
By the way it is spelt QANTAS. (Queensland And Northern Territory** A**erial Service.)

 

[FaithJoy]

I personally don’t think the whole world was flooded. It was a region event. In Hebrew, the word “land” and “earth” was used interchangeably. In Hebrew if “land” was understood then people in that time would understand the flood to be a land known to the people in a large region, not knowing the effect done by the flood to the unknown world. Therefore, kangaroos were unaffected. That would make since because God said nothing about being angered of the new world or undiscovered world.

 

[LittleSoldier]

Kenshin, you nailed it.
Page after page of convoluted argument and no-one picked the obvious answer. Well done mate.
Sheesh, as if they’d travel in an old leaky wooden boat…
By the way it is spelt QANTAS. (Queensland And Northern Territory** A**erial Service.)

Um, the misspelling of the word “Qantas” has already been pointed out (by me), although I do appreciate your telling us what the letters mean. I never knew that. Thank you.

 

[Frindon]

That is true.

However, even if it did, recall that human life, having come to rest in Central Asia after the flood, somehow managed to get to the New World (and to Australia). Apparently whatever the flood was, at some point after it the land-bridges that science talks about were able to form from Russia to Alaska and from Vietnam through the islands to Australia.

The Jewish calendar notwithstanding, we don’t know how long ago the flood took place.

ICXC NIKA

We do actually, approximately 4,600 years ago, and the evidence is there around and under the Black sea. The whole of Noah’s world was flooded.

For those that do not believe in evolution, is that because you do not believe God is capable of something as clever as that. The universe is 13.4 billion years old, a calculation that the Rev. Fr. George Lemaitre used in coming to the conclusion that there was a big bang. This was of course laughed at by all the atheists of the time. Whose side are you on?

Frindon

 

[edwest2]

The age of the universe is presently determined by something called redshift. Distant objects are moving away from us, but there are two problems:

1. Some of thses objects are apparently moving at speeds greater than light.
2. There are redshifts that do not appear to be distance related.

adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1974IAUS…63…61A

In light of this, I think the age of the universe is not set in stone.

God bless,
Ed

 

[LittleSoldier]

The age of the universe is presently determined by something called redshift. Distant objects are moving away from us, but there are two problems:

1. Some of thses objects are apparently moving at speeds greater than light.
2. There are redshifts that do not appear to be distance related.

adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1974IAUS…63…61A

In light of this, I think the age of the universe is not set in stone.

God bless,
Ed

Actually the age of the universe is set in stone. We just might not be able to see the stone. The age of the universe doesn’t shift, does it? I mean, it is what it is and only changes as time goes on.

 

[Zooey]

My cat has prehensile paws. Well, she looks like she does. She’s polydactyl with an extra digit that shows and another extra digit in which the bones are inside her wrists with only the nail showing.

The extra digit that actually shows sticks out just like a thumb.

Weird.

A friend of mine once had a polydactyl cat like this…One night at her house, we were watching a scary movie…and the front door swung open.
We screamed like loonies until we realized that it was the cat. He just reached up with one paw, and turned the doorknob & let himslef in.
And then, of course, he looked at us like we really were looney, & demanded to be fed immediately. Cats!!!

I personally don’t think the whole world was flooded. It was a region event. In Hebrew, the word “land” and “earth” was used interchangeably. In Hebrew if “land” was understood then people in that time would understand the flood to be a land known to the people in a large region, not knowing the effect done by the flood to the unknown world. Therefore, kangaroos were unaffected. That would make since because God said nothing about being angered of the new world or undiscovered world.

Frindon:

We do actually, approximately 4,600 years ago, and the evidence is there around and under the Black sea. The whole of Noah’s world was flooded.

 

[Nelka]

We are to understand scripture as the Church has taught and understood it.

What Does the Catholic Church Teach about Origins?

God created everything “in its whole substance” from nothing (ex nihilo) in the beginning. (Lateran IV; Vatican Council I)
· Genesis does not contain purified myths. (Pontifical Biblical Commission 19091)
· Genesis contains real history—it gives an account of things that really happened. (Pius XII)
· Adam and Eve were real human beings—the first parents of all mankind. (Pius XII)
· Polygenism (many “first parents”) contradicts Scripture and Tradition and is condemned. (Pius XII; 1994
Catechism, 360, footnote 226: Tobit 8:6—the “one ancestor” referred to in this Catechism could only be Adam.)
· The “beginning” of the world included the creation of all things, the creation of Adam and Eve and the Fall (Jesus Christ [Mark 10:6]; Pope Innocent III; Blessed Pope Pius IX, Ineffabilis Deus).
· The body of Eve was specially created from a portion of Adam’s body (Leo XIII). She could not have originated via evolution.
· Various senses are employed in the Bible, but the literal obvious sense must be believed unless reason dictates or necessity requires (Leo XIII, Providentissimus Deus).
· Adam and Eve were created upon an earthly paradise and would not have known death if they had remained obedient (Pius XII).
· After their disobedience of God, Adam and Eve were banished from the Garden of Eden. But the Second Person of the Trinity would subsequently pay the ransom for fallen man (Nicene Creed).
· Original Sin is a flawed condition inherited from Adam and Eve (Council of Trent).
· The Universe suffers in travail ever since the sin of disobedience by Adam and Eve. (Romans 8, Vatican
Council I).
· We must believe any interpretation of Scripture that the Fathers taught unanimously on a matter of faith or morals (Council of Trent and Vatican Council I).
· All the Fathers who wrote on the subject believed that the Creation days were no longer than 24-hour-days. (Consensus of the Fathers of the Church)
· The work of Creation was finished by the close of Day Six, and nothing completely new has since been created—except for each human rational soul at conception (Vatican Council I)
· St. Peter and Christ Himself in the New Testament confirmed the global Flood of Noah. It covered all the then high mountains and destroyed all land dwelling creatures except eight human beings and all kinds of non-human creatures aboard the Ark (Unam Sanctam, 1302)
· The historical existence of Noah’s Ark is regarded as most important in typology, as central to Redemption. (1566 Catechism of the Council of Trent)
· Evolution must not be taught as fact, but instead the pros and cons of evolution must be taught. (Pius XII, Humani Generis)
· Investigation into human “evolution” was allowed in 1950, but Pope Pius XII feared that an acceptance of evolutionism might adversely affect doctrinal beliefs.

Very Interesting.

 

[edwest2]

I personally don’t think the whole world was flooded. It was a region event. In Hebrew, the word “land” and “earth” was used interchangeably. In Hebrew if “land” was understood then people in that time would understand the flood to be a land known to the people in a large region, not knowing the effect done by the flood to the unknown world. Therefore, kangaroos were unaffected. That would make since because God said nothing about being angered of the new world or undiscovered world.

Opinions don’t matter in this case. I was taught the entire world was flooded in Catholic school. Most of the people who think otherwise are either convinced of something they heard somewhere or who are actively fighting the idea that God can in fact perform miracles.

Pope Benedict just canonized a man the other day. Do you know how people are granted sainthood? Two miracles must be attributed to their intercession. Two miracles. Miracles are attributed, by the Church, to God not men.

God bless,
Ed

 

[LittleSoldier]

Opinions don’t matter in this case. I was taught the entire world was flooded in Catholic school. Most of the people who think otherwise are either convinced of something they heard somewhere or who are actively fighting the idea that God can in fact perform miracles.

Pope Benedict just canonized a man the other day. Do you know how people are granted sainthood? Two miracles must be attributed to their intercession. Two miracles. Miracles are attributed, by the Church, to God not men.

God bless,
Ed

Do you believe that what you were taught in Catholic school is always Church teaching and true? Because in second grade I was taught that french kissing is a mortal sin and that I must keep a list of all my sins in my mind so that I can tell the priest in Confession exactly how many times I lied, was mean to my mother, etc. (I never did those things so I lied to the priest and then wondered if that sin of lying was covered by my present Confession or the next one.)

What matters in this case is a literal interpretation of scripture. It doesn’t necessarily follow that the whole world was flooded. It could have been the whole world as known. It could probably have been other things. I also question how anyone could arrange to get the male and female of every species of animal on earth and fit them into a boat or ship smaller than 10,000 gigantic ocean liners. Did Noah get a male Drosophila melanogaster and a female? Did he realize he only had to get one common snail as they are hermaphroditic? How the heck did he get the elephants from Africa and India? How did he sex the snakes and lizards (it can be very difficult). What if one of the animals died? There were only two of each kind.

I take this literally. I don’t believe for one second that every animal, male and female, was placed on board the Ark. The stench would have been unbearable. Where would the food come from? What if the foxes ate the chickens?

The interpretation of the passages concerning Noah is left to the Church and at this time I don’t know what the interpretation is.

Of course God can create miracles. I have no doubt of that. I just don’t think He did so in the case of the Ark.

 

[Frindon]

The age of the universe is presently determined by something called redshift. Distant objects are moving away from us, but there are two problems:

1. Some of thses objects are apparently moving at speeds greater than light.
2. There are redshifts that do not appear to be distance related.

adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1974IAUS…63…61A

In light of this, I think the age of the universe is not set in stone.

God bless,
Ed

I hope you don’t mind if I laugh at this. This atrocious parady of science should be capable of rejection by anyone with a brain. Objects moving at greater than the speed of light would be invisible. The light leaving it could not travel faster than the speed of light so it would never reach us. Read this please catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=8847

Early popes thought that the sun revolved around the earth, but we know better now. When it comes to evolution, that is a matter of science. You can if you want go along with a 500 years dead Pope, or, you can go with the current Pope. Bear in mind infallibility has no bearing on science.

OK there are some scientists with an atheist agenda, BUT, you can actually laugh at their naivity, even if they are Prof Hawkins. “If we have gravity then we can get something from nothing”. Where does he think gravity came from. You see you do actually have to put your brain in gear and not be like the Southern Baptists.

Frindon

 

[edwest2]

I hope you don’t mind if I laugh at this. This atrocious parady of science should be capable of rejection by anyone with a brain. Objects moving at greater than the speed of light would be invisible. The light leaving it could not travel faster than the speed of light so it would never reach us. Read this please catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=8847

Early popes thought that the sun revolved around the earth, but we know better now. When it comes to evolution, that is a matter of science. You can if you want go along with a 500 years dead Pope, or, you can go with the current Pope. Bear in mind infallibility has no bearing on science.

OK there are some scientists with an atheist agenda, BUT, you can actually laugh at their naivity, even if they are Prof Hawkins. “If we have gravity then we can get something from nothing”. Where does he think gravity came from. You see you do actually have to put your brain in gear and not be like the Southern Baptists.

Frindon

What people need to do is stop worshipping their brains and the brains of others and actually be obedient to Church teaching.

Infallibility has a bearing on science. The Church has infallibly declared the universe if of a finite age.

God bless,
Ed

 

[LittleSoldier]

What people need to do is stop worshipping their brains and the brains of others and actually be obedient to Church teaching.

Infallibility has a bearing on science. The Church has infallibly declared the universe if of a finite age.

God bless,
Ed

Taking science and other methods of study into account does not mean that people are “worshipping their brains and the brains of others.” Not only that, but the Magisterium and the pope are human beings with brains, too. I have always been told that the Church encourages people to ask questions, to discuss, to debate. The faithful are not to be a bunch of mindless drones, accepting even infallible decrees without thought or question. God gave us brains for a reason - so that we can think about what our senses tell us, so that we can discuss our feelings and dreams with other people, so that we can examine His creations with at least a modicum of intelligence. This is not worshipping brains but worshipping God.

It’s good to question.

As usual, you don’t understand. I, for one, refuse to stand in a church and say “Duh, duh, duh…yessir, yessir, yessir…”

And may I also remind you that the Church is embracing science and that Truth obtained from science cannot contradict Truth obtained from the Church and God. The Church is not the only source of Truth and it is not the only creation of God.

I also noticed that you failed to address Frindon’s points. Do you have a response to those that doesn’t just ignore them?

 

[edwest2]

Taking science and other methods of study into account does not mean that people are “worshipping their brains and the brains of others.” Not only that, but the Magisterium and the pope are human beings with brains, too. I have always been told that the Church encourages people to ask questions, to discuss, to debate. The faithful are not to be a bunch of mindless drones, accepting even infallible decrees without thought or question. God gave us brains for a reason - so that we can think about what our senses tell us, so that we can discuss our feelings and dreams with other people, so that we can examine His creations with at least a modicum of intelligence. This is not worshipping brains but worshipping God.

It’s good to question.

As usual, you don’t understand. I, for one, refuse to stand in a church and say “Duh, duh, duh…yessir, yessir, yessir…”

And may I also remind you that the Church is embracing science and that Truth obtained from science cannot contradict Truth obtained from the Church and God. The Church is not the only source of Truth and it is not the only creation of God.

I also noticed that you failed to address Frindon’s points. Do you have a response to those that doesn’t just ignore them?

I understand you 100%, believe me. I know exactly what you refuse to do but please don’t stand in front of another poster and ask me why I don’t respond to what he wrote. The original poster is welcome to contact me directly.

God bless,
Ed

 

[LittleSoldier]

I understand you 100%, believe me. I know exactly what you refuse to do but please don’t stand in front of another poster and ask me why I don’t respond to what he wrote. The original poster is welcome to contact me directly.

God bless,
Ed

Ed, this is a forum. It is not a one-on-one conversation. If you want to have a private conversation you can use PMs. Any member is allowed to respond to any post and to comment on any part of that post.

 

[GEddie]

What people need to do is stop worshipping their brains and the brains of others and actually be obedient to Church teaching.

Infallibility has a bearing on science. The Church has infallibly declared the universe if of a finite age.

God bless,
Ed

No one I know worships his own head or anybody else’s.

In any case, we are to USE our heads as much as possible. That is what we are designed to do; our head is what we know with, and knowing is one of our most Godly propensities.

And BTW, “a finite age” is FULLY compatible with evolution.

ICXC NIKA

 

[roveau]

All this discussion but no-one has answered the question, how did the kangaroos and koalas get to Australia?

Just remember that they are found no-where else in the world and no fossil record of them has been found outside of Australia.

 

[buffalo]

All this discussion but no-one has answered the question, how did the kangaroos and koalas get to Australia?

Just remember that they are found no-where else in the world and no fossil record of them has been found outside of Australia.

Post 67

Exotic mammals hitched rides on rafts to colonise Madagascar

The animated movie Madagascar - which featured a group of zoo animals hitching a boat ride to the African island - was not so far- fetched after all.

A new study today claims the island’s exotic wild mammals are descended from sea-faring ancestors who sailed from mainland Africa on natural rafts 50 million years ago.

Scientists say the prevailing currents at the time would have made the 300 mile trip not only possible, but relatively fast too.
Madagascar is home to an extraordinary collection of animals found nowhere else in the world. They include fossas - which resemble a cross between cats and dogs, 70 types of lemurs, flying foxes and narrow striped mongooses.

But scientists have long been puzzled how the ancestors of these animals got to Madagascar.

Read more: dailymail.co.uk/sciencete…#ixzz0yC38fF1V

Read more: dailymail.co.uk/sciencete…#ixzz0yC33fFv6

 

[LittleSoldier]

All this discussion but no-one has answered the question, how did the kangaroos and koalas get to Australia?

Just remember that they are found no-where else in the world and no fossil record of them has been found outside of Australia.

Disclaimer: The following answer is my opinion only.

**The answer is…drum roll…ta da…hold onto your hats…here it comes…:

They didn’t “get” to Australia!!! ** That is where they developed. There are several theories that I found by googling “evolution of kangaroos” (I am just discussing kangaroos in this post).

The following links are interesting and cover theories based on creationism, climate change, predation by humans, and the presence of marsupials in other parts of the world, such as Tasmania and Papua New Guinea.

conservapedia.com/Kangaroo

christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-kangaroos.html

evolutiondiary.com/2008/08/14/giant-prehistoric-kangaroos-killed-off-by-humans/

physorg.com/news200126874.html

Pick a theory!! Any theory!!

Not enough is known about these fascinating animals to come to a consensus as to their appearance and development in Australia or to the reasons for the extinction of some types of marsupials.