What to tell children about 9/11

[beasuappear]

hi everyone,

i haven’t had a chance to read everyone’s posts, but i have read a few here and there.

9/11 was tragic, inhumane, horrible, and no words can describe the horror of it. However, i wonder whether it can be divorced from what has since taken place in world dynamics? if i had children, would i not also add on, that since then, our country has waged war upon two countries, killed 10’s of thousands of people, and has now started attacking a third (Pakistan). Or is this not important since it is not taking place on ‘home soil’?

Also, finer details of how for years, our President, who’s decision (against the UN- Shouldn’t kids know what the UN is?) lead to the loss of the lives of so many young men of women of the US military, well, he didn’t even go to honour the bodies that returned home?

I don’t know, why be selective? If kids are intelligent enough to understand ‘Islamofascism’ as one person pointed out, surely they can also understand domino effects and the bigger picture.

Also, many Muslim leaders condemned 9/11, and condemn terrorism, but unfortunately, the bigger picture is left for the media to paint and such leaders of mainstream Muslims are not given the coverage for their voices to be heard.

9/11 was a day to not be forgotten. I was heartbroken, and cried at the images that were flashing across the TV unable to believe my eyes. I do not call for the extent of its horror and its rememberance to be lessened, the American people have a right to it, no, even a duty to remember it. However, i sometimes wonder, if 9/11 is not happening everyday across the globe. But somehow seen differently, as it is dished out and recieved by different people accordingly. I just wonder.

 

[rpp]

My, my. It sounds like the words of a man running out of excuses. “quick, end the discussion…before we run out of retoric”

“motivated by something other than national security”. Yes, I would say I am motivated by the concept of justice, and fairness.

**You **seem to think these concepts can be abandoned when things get tricky. Some might call this hypocritical.

Talk about hypocritical. All you do here is insult people, attack people and tear them down. You do not contribute to discussion here in any meaningful way. You are as interested in justice as you are in being polite or truthful. You only want to start fights. You do exactly what you falsely accuse other of doing.

Since you are anti-Catholic and anti-Christian, based on your posts, it appears the only reason you are here is that you hate Catholics and you seek to disrupt things on a Catholic forum and start fights with Catholics.

It also appears another motive for your socially unacceptable behavior, rudeness and habitually off-topic posts is that you seek attention. You will not get any more attention from me.

 

[duskyjewel]

he didn’t even go to honour the bodies that returned home?

Did Wilson go to meet every dead soldier’s corpse that came home from WWI? Roosevelt or Truman for WWII? For Korea? Kennedy or Johnson or Nixon for Vietnam? Bush 41 for Gulf War I? No? Do you chastise them for that?

Being President has a lot of responsibility. Many things to do. Even more in time of war. I think we could forgive the man for not being able to be there. Though I believe that W prays every night for every soul lost. I don’t think he takes being Commander in Chief lightly at all, nor having to sacrifice young lives.

 

[beasuappear]

Why are you so defensive? It was just a reflection, I’m sorry if it offended you!
I find it strange that you seem to know how he feels about these things (prays at night and doesn’t take young lives lost lightly?). I’ll just take that as your reflections of loyalty rather than fact!

Personally, (note, this is a personal and general reflection), I have only respect for a leader, who makes a decison to go to war, and is content for his own son to be fighting in it. It is only then, that I would feel, that he really believed in it.

 

[Appleby]

Agree. Telling a 6 year old that evil people that hate americans and are out to get them is not a great idea.

Even if it happens to be true?

My sister and I went to the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC when it first opened. Her husband met us at the airport with the kids. As we were walking out we were telling him about what we had seen, including the piles of childrens shoes, and my youngest boy, who was about 6 at the time, asked me if they killed children, and I said that they did. Then he asked me what the children had done wrong. And I told him they had done nothing wrong; the Nazis considered Jewish children to be like cockroaches and just wanted to stamp them out. And I told him when he got older that Granddad would tell him about what he saw after the War, because he was there – and that Granddad had helped to stamp out the Nazis so they could not do that anymore.

I do not believe in pretending to children that life is a birthday party and Mom or Dad can always protect them from anything bad that might happen.

Mine were adults when the Towers fell. They understood it a lot better than anybody who lives in Toronto of any age seems to do.

 

[PastGrandKnight]

I’m with duskyjewel on this one, though my dd isn’t old enough to know or hear about it (she’s almost 4). But, when the day comes, I will discuss it with her. Many children in the NY/NJ/CT/MD/VA/DC area had to deal with the reality of what happened that day, no matter what their age was. Yes, don’t be overconsumed with talking about it, but be frank and honest. I know that when my dd asks I will pull out the outfit and shoes that I wore that day when I had to walk 10 miles to my car from my job at the US Senate office buildings on Capitol Hill that day (as a side note, and it may be tmi, but when she sees the dead skin of my popped blisters plastered on my fashionable but impractical shoe choice of that day - I metroed into work each day - she may also learn the lesson of comfort before fashion).

At the age of 3 she has already asked some pretty serious and tough questions in which I never thought would cross the mind of a 3 yo (why did Satan disguise himself as a serpant? Why does mama Mary step on his head? Why was Satan an angel? Are we all real or just pretend? This last question was asked in all seriousness and when I asked her the same question, she spent time thinking about it and even questioned it thinking that we could possibly be only a figment of God’s imagination). As duskyjewel said, kids can handle concepts much better than we think. I have also had to be honest at a level she can understand the importance of this current election, as well as different forms of government (the Chinese people are good, their leaders are bad because they do not want the people to have more than one child, especially little girls, they hurt their people, and they don’t want the Chinese people to believe in God). I won’t disclose what I’ve said about the current presidential candidates, but she is quite aware of why mommy is very passionate about this election.

Hopefully, that passion is leaning towards the only presidential candidate who is Pro-Life, John McCain!

As regards, the rest, I agree that honesty, with an explanation at a level they can understand, is the best policy. I met one woman who told her children that the planes “made a mistake and went off-course”, which was a bunch of rubbish! (I could see one plane going off course, or having a pilot suffering a heart attack, but NOT FOUR!) There was no “mistake” involved, as you know. It was the deliberate murdering of some 3000 innocent human beings, none of whom deserved to die at the hands of a Muslim terrorist.

 

[PastGrandKnight]

I knew it was just a matter of time before the overly patriotic “How dare you” came out. A classic sign of a failing argument.

So why don’t we do away with the justice system all together? We can get the army or the police to charge us, interrogate us, put us on trial, judge us, and sentence us. What a wonderful system that’d be.

Funny. They managed to conduct trials in public everwhere else in the world when dealing with terrorism. They managed to conduct the entire trial of Sadam Hussein (with the insurgency level of activity at it’s peak) in Iraq, on TV, with members of the public testifying openly. hmmm. Oh…I guess that was “good media exposure”…so that can be on TV.

The mere fact that the US has resorted to these measures (mind you, many more enlightened and media savy Americans are appauled by this), means they are winning. Somewhere along the line Bush and his mates decided that what America stood for really wasn’t that important anymore.

PS; Sorry for the large font (pressed some weird button combination)

What President Bush decided was to protect the lives of innocent Americans by keeping the terrorist savages at bay…OVER THERE! One result is that there have been no terrorist attacks on American soil SINCE 9/11. There have also been no hijackings of American airplanes since 9/11. While it is true that some people feel the measures have been a bit “draconian” in nature, at least we are protecting ourselves from whatever attacks these terrorists may have been planning in the post-9/11 world.

By the way, the tallest building in the world is still under construction. It’s the Burj Dubai, located in Dubai. It’s truly a beautiful building. Google it, and you will find it is some 2500 feet tall. Now, what is it they say about “the bigger they are…”? JUST KIDDING!

But let me get this across to you and to anyone else who reads these words:
The USA was fully justified in going to war in Iraq.
Why, you might ask? Well, do you recall Operation Desert Storm, and how THAT conflict ended? To refresh your memory: It ended in a Cease-fire agreement. One of the key clauses in that agreement was that we would be allowed unlimited weapons inspections. Fine. We got them…until right after 9/11, when Saddam suddenly decided to stop allowing our Inspectors to do their jobs. Sorry, Saddam old boy, but you signed your wretched name to it, and you have to live with that agreement! The moment he abrogated the agreement, we had every RIGHT to go back to Iraq.
Give President Bush a lot of credit, though, for being a patient man. Instead of turning half of the Middle East into a parking lot on 9/12, he waited over a full year before initiating military operations in Iraq. To me, that is not the sign of a “war-monger”, as some have called him. Rather, it is the sign of a man of great patience, one who was striving for a peaceful resolution to the issue.
The point is that without having those weapons inspections, we had no idea if Saddam was arming for war, or worse. We could not afford to take chances with the lives of innocent Americans at stake.

And as for those who cry about our soldiers being sent over there “to die for nothing”, just remember this: Some 16 MILLION Americans were sent half-way around the world…in two directions… in order to fight WW II. We suffered some 455,000 deaths to our soldiers. Yet, was anyone cry-babying about it in the streets or in the local newspapers? Of course not! America was united behind our soldiers and our President. No sacrifice was too much to be made for that war effort.
So, if we are talking about sheer numbers here, compare the 455,000 deaths of WW II to the 3000 or so deaths we have had to endure for this war. With the number of American casualties dwindling on an almost daily basis, I’d say we are getting the job done.
I could go on, easily, but I think you get the point. Have a nice day.

 

[sanctamaria17]

I thought we weren’t allowed to mention candidates on the boards?

When I was 10, I learned about the Holocaust and learned that members of my own family died from it (my great grandfather’s family was Austrian-Jewish). When I was younger, I learned about the Oklahoma bombings. I learned about abortion when I was even younger. I wasn’t scared for life.

Kids can handle things. During 9/11, kids in my area HAD to (many of them wondering if Mommy and Daddy were going to come home from work that night).

They should at least know that it was a sad day when many people died because people hated us and what we stand for. They should be encouraged to pray.

And yes, terrorists declared “unlawful combatants” and captured by military are going to be subject to different rules not only by US or military law but by international law. Doesn’t make it unfair. Like I said, I think a woman in the Congo who has been raped and brutalized many times after seeing her husband and children killed knows unfair more than a terrorist under interrogation.

 

[thomfra]

Talk about hypocritical. All you do here is insult people, attack people and tear them down. You do not contribute to discussion here in any meaningful way. You are as interested in justice as you are in being polite or truthful. You only want to start fights. You do exactly what you falsely accuse other of doing.

Since you are anti-Catholic and anti-Christian, based on your posts, it appears the only reason you are here is that you hate Catholics and you seek to disrupt things on a Catholic forum and start fights with Catholics.

It also appears another motive for your socially unacceptable behavior, rudeness and habitually off-topic posts is that you seek attention. You will not get any more attention from me.

Again, you chose not to respond to the content of my post. I please keep you comments a little more relevant to the points under discussion. I am not anti catholic. Quite the opposite.

If you find discussions of such a nature threatening or upsetting, then you need to find a discussion thread with more homogenaeity of opinion.

 

[thomfra]

Because civilians are not subject to the UCMJ. Your ignorance is astounding.

Well which way do you want it dusky? Are they common thugs, or are they a military force (albeit without a uniform). You can’t have it both ways.

Where are you talking about? Which countries? Where are they publicly prosecuting terrorists and effectively stopping them that way? The trial of Saddam Hussein was conducted by the IRAQI government. .

I am not sure if you aware. But Iraq is still an occupied country.

England used the british legal system to great effect against the IRA without letting any sensitive information out.

Spain managed to convict ETA terrorists.

The US has put away hundred of Mafia men with the normal legal process…

Jeez, people like you would have insisted on public admission that we broke the Enigma codes and lost us WWII. .

eh hmmm… i believe the enigma code breaking centre was in England, and the “code broken” by an English mathematician. But anyway…I’ll put that down as a team effort…

I digress. Yes, the trail does not have to be public. But you can still have in place checks and balances that ensure a fair trail. i would refer you to one of the earlier posts.

The assumption made by you that military trials are de facto unfair ones IS a smear. You are impugning the honesty and honor of everyone involved.

It’s not a matter of “smearing the military” at all. It’s about ensuring that the process leads to a fair trial. There are obvious conflicts of interest here.

 

[spellinggirl]

Wow, I was 8 when that happened! I remember it like it was yesterday…

My little brothers were those ages when it happened and they had nightmares for a while, poor guys. I wouldn’t say anything to the kids unless they ask. Maybe when they’re a little older…

Where were you when the world stopped turning on that September day?

 

[duskyjewel]

thomfra, what part of this do you not get. The terrorists at Guantanamo are neither civilians nor representatives of a state military that wears uniforms. They are UNLAWFUL COMBATANTS, a unique status that fits neither civilian nor military. And they are dealt with accordingly.

You are determined to think the worst of your country and its military. I wash my hands of you, your ignorance, and your hatred. I hope you appreciate the freedom to express yourself on these boards, freely and without fear of retribution from your government, thanks to the military you hate keeping you safe and free.

 

[spellinggirl]

thomfra, what part of this do you not get. The terrorists at Guantanamo are neither civilians nor representatives of a state military that wears uniforms. They are UNLAWFUL COMBATANTS, a unique status that fits neither civilian nor military. And they are dealt with accordingly.

You are determined to think the worst of your country and its military. I wash my hands of you, your ignorance, and your hatred. I hope you appreciate the freedom to express yourself on these boards, freely and without fear of retribution from your government, thanks to the military you hate keeping you safe and free.

Well said, duskyjewel. I agree completely.

 

[BeGods]

Funny you should mention the Holocaust…

Our family is german. Two of my husband’s grandparents are actually from germany, and the ties are still there. We’re not Nazi’s; in fact they came over in the 20’s. As far as we know no one was a willing Nazi sympathier among our relatives. But three generations have been acused of it.

They don’t fly flags in Germany anymore. The symbol everyone associates with the Nazi’s was the German flag before Hitler took power (on less than a majority vote I might add). Pride in being German is not common, but I refuse to teach my children to be ashamed of their heritage. We are a people of science and philosophy, ones who search for the truth. So what am I to say when the Nazi’s come up? How can I explain that a people we should be proud of a people that committed such horrible crimes?

I worried about this for years. Then the subject came up when I was watching a movie with my 7 year old. It was “Miracle of the White Horses” and took place in Austria at the end of the War.
The opening sequence ends with a picture of a German/Nazi flag and she wanted to know what it was.

Much to my surprise the words came out very matter-of-factly. I could talk about the Nazi’s as horrible people. I could point out that there were good Germans too, and that Germany suffered greatly for wanting to go along with Hitler. We even brushed over that terrible things were happening, and that’s why the U.S. was dropping the bombs that were threatening the horses. No quaver in my voice, no fear, no regret.

Jesus told us not to worry about what to say, because the Holy Spirit would give us words that others would not be able to argue against. The Holy Spirit helped me to speak calmly to my daughter that day. We can be proud of being German, sorry that the country foolishly wanted to conquor Europe, and horrified by what the Nazi’s did to accomplish that goal.

So if I were you, place your worries in God’s hands and let him do the talking. Chances are your children will ask about 9/11 when they are ready to hear answers. And because you love them you’ll know what to say. Don’t prepare anything in advance, because the Holy Spirit will provide your explainations for you.

 

[thomfra]

thomfra, what part of this do you not get. The terrorists at Guantanamo are neither civilians nor representatives of a state military that wears uniforms. They are UNLAWFUL COMBATANTS, a unique status that fits neither civilian nor military. And they are dealt with accordingly.

You are determined to think the worst of your country and its military. I wash my hands of you, your ignorance, and your hatred. I hope you appreciate the freedom to express yourself on these boards, freely and without fear of retribution from your government, thanks to the military you hate keeping you safe and free.

That was quiet a tirade. Jack Nicholsen (a few good men) would be proud!!!

So I guess the US Supreme Court also “hates America” as well then. see article below…since they go off and rule against things that are unconstitutional and all.

npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91441607

June 12, 2008 · Foreign terrorism suspects being held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, have rights under the U.S. Constitution to challenge their detention in civilian courts, the Supreme Court ruled Thursday.

The decision is another setback for the Bush administration over its treatment of prisoners **being held indefinitely and without charges at Guantanamo. **

Please, think things through a little. Do some reasearch before you write. You might just learn something.

But you have “washed your hands of me”. So I don’t expect any response other than “you hate America”.

 

[duskyjewel]

The fact that you quote from NPR tells me that everything I thought of you is true.

I already mentioned the Supreme Court atrocity earlier in this thread.

done

 

[thomfra]

The fact that you quote from NPR tells me that everything I thought of you is true.

I already mentioned the Supreme Court atrocity earlier in this thread.

done

Well it appears you are completely lacking in any semblance of a coherent argument.

So yes, I suppose you are “done”.

 

[crenfro]

Hello.

On the home page of these Catholic Answers forums is an article or a tract or something that is titled “Endless Jihad” and it addresses some of the comments I read so far in this thread.
catholic.com/library/endless_jihad.asp

I always did wonder about how all those people in that Windows in the World restaurant in the top floor of tower #1 would address this question if they’d lived.

No kids though, just didn’t have any, so I don’t know what I’d tell a kiddo about 9/11.

My two cents.

 

[thomfra]

Hello.

On the home page of these Catholic Answers forums is an article or a tract or something that is titled “Endless Jihad” and it addresses some of the comments I read so far in this thread.
catholic.com/library/endless_jihad.asp

I always did wonder about how all those people in that Windows in the World restaurant in the top floor of tower #1 would address this question if they’d lived.

No kids though, just didn’t have any, so I don’t know what I’d tell a kiddo about 9/11.

My two cents.

Hmmm - what exactly is this? I certainly can’t see how that is anything that Rome would approve of.

…I notice there is no by-line on this “special report”…

 

[crenfro]

Hmmm - what exactly is this? I certainly can’t see how that is anything that Rome would approve of.

…I notice there is no by-line on this “special report”…

I’m not sure what you’re referring to as “this.” (the “this” I’m asking about is the first “this” listed in this post!) “This,” as you’re using the word, could mean any of several things.

Could you please explain how/why/what there is on this tract, listed within the Catholic Answers site, is something that Rome wouldn’t approve of? Are you referring to the Vatican or to the Italian government when you use the word “Rome?”

A by-line? Are you saying you don’t readily see who the author of this tract is? Or are you saying that it’s not written by an accredited journalist?

Could you clarify?

My opinion, and I stress, it’s just my opinion, but I think the Catholic Answers tract on Endless Jihad
catholic.com/library/endless_jihad.asp
is a great tract to share with children when they ask about 9/11.