What to think of this NDE

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ellzeena

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Posted by a member here in another forum in answer to some thread I can’t remember (found it in my history folder):

realclearreligion.com/index_files/7e88403fd2145e2bdfcfb5f89203b705-634.php

Aside from its great length (have to admit I skimmed some of it), there is a statement made about “youth” in “purgatory” because they took their lives in desperation that really really upset me since my daughter, who was profoundly mentally ill, took her life two years ago.

Any opinions about the validity of this testimony?
 
This is just as clueless as the “vision” of a German old lady who claimed that she has seen 4 year-olds being burned by flames of Purgatory. I’m so fed up with such scare-mongering fictions :mad:
In our dreams we are only able to see things that we have already seen in real life. This is the stuff dreams are made of. Likewise, everybody is able to “see” only things that he or she has already learned in a particular culture. A Buddhist doesn’t dream or have NDEs, daydreams or mystical visions implying nuns burning in Hell or Purgatory, because such concepts are foreign to his culture. He didn’t read the hypothesis of St Thomas about purgatorial flames being at least as cruel as the hellish ones :rolleyes: and he didn’t see any paintings of horned devils boiling people or torturing people with forks. By contrast, European nuns have produced a lot of stories about their “visions” of hellish sufferings involving - you guessed it - other nuns in Purgatory. Stay away from such nonsense. NOBODY is privy to what happens to other people’s souls after the death of the body.
 
Suicide all to frequently is to mental illness as a heart attack is to coronary artery disease. It seems she encountered considerable suffering during her life. She is free, and if not with God now, on her way to Him. We should all pray for her and ask that she pray for us.
 
People do receive visions outside of their knowledge or already-held beliefs, but it is rare. And just because someone receives a vision of someone of their faith doesn’t mean it’s false, either; it could mean that God is trying to show/tell them something. We need to examine these visions and see how they compare to the Bible/Catechism/Church teaching to determine if they are worthy of belief. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. We must follow Jesus and not get distracted by false prophets.

Please remember that Purgatory is not Hell. People go to Purgatory to get cleaned up before they go to Heaven. Yes, it is painful, but our souls must be clean and completely conformed to God’s will before we can enter Heaven. Some people believe it’s instantaneous; others have had visions of people in Purgatory for the equivalent of 14 Earth years. But very few people die in a state holy enough to enter Heaven immediately. Purgatory is a good thing!

If you are told that someone, or even a loved one is in Purgatory, pray for them. It’s not something to be upset about because they made it! They’re going to Heaven!

Let’s pray for the holy souls in Purgatory: :signofcross:
Eternal Father, I offer Thee the Most Precious Blood of Thy Divine Son, Jesus, in union with the masses said throughout the world today, for all the holy souls in Purgatory, for sinners everywhere, for sinners in the universal church, those in my own home and within my family. Amen.
 
vames said:
This is just as clueless as the “vision” of a German old lady who claimed that she has seen 4 year-olds being burned by flames of Purgatory. I’m so fed up with such scare-mongering fictions :mad:
In our dreams we are only able to see things that we have already seen in real life. This is the stuff dreams are made of. Likewise, everybody is able to “see” only things that he or she has already learned in a particular culture. A Buddhist doesn’t dream or have NDEs, daydreams or mystical visions implying nuns burning in Hell or Purgatory, because such concepts are foreign to his culture. He didn’t read the hypothesis of St Thomas about purgatorial flames being at least as cruel as the hellish ones :rolleyes: and he didn’t see any paintings of horned devils boiling people or torturing people with forks. By contrast, European nuns have produced a lot of stories about their “visions” of hellish sufferings involving - you guessed it - other nuns in Purgatory. Stay away from such nonsense. NOBODY is privy to what happens to other people’s souls after the death of the body.
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I would not dismiss the visions of hell so quickly. Hell is real and to ignore this truth is exactly what the devil wants.

To the OP, God is very merciful and knows your daughter was sick. I will pray for the repose of her soul.
 
ellzeena said:
Posted by a member here in another forum …] there is a statement made about “youth” in “purgatory” because they took their lives in desperation that really really upset me since my daughter, who was profoundly mentally ill, took her life two years ago.

Any opinions about the validity of this testimony?
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ellzeena, I’m so sorry for your loss.

Please don’t let this disturb your peace. Our Lord understands and loves your dear one.
 
Ellzeena,
I am so sorry to hear of your daughter’s death–I cannot imagine anything worse.

I read it and was/am profoundly affected by Dr Polo’s testimony. But I am a person who needs to hear or read that information.

For you, what you need to think about is God’s great mercy and perfect understanding. God will not punish her for anything of which she is not guilty. If someone knocked over a valuable vase during an epileptic seizure, that would not be his fault, would it? And whatever your daughter did as a result of her illness would also not be imputed to her.

God loves us so very much, and He can see what is written on our hearts in a perfect way. He will judge your daughter *only *on what is genuinely on her own heart, not on what was connected with her illness.

We pray for our loved ones in Purgatory on the chance they are still there, and God uses those prayers for others in Purgatory if our own loved one for whom we offer them is not there.

Again, my sympathies and and I will pray for your daughter and family.
 
ellzeena said:
Posted by a member here in another forum in answer to some thread I can’t remember (found it in my history folder):

realclearreligion.com/index_files/7e88403fd2145e2bdfcfb5f89203b705-634.php

Aside from its great length (have to admit I skimmed some of it), there is a statement made about “youth” in “purgatory” because they took their lives in desperation that really really upset me since my daughter, who was profoundly mentally ill, took her life two years ago.

Any opinions about the validity of this testimony?
Click to expand...
I am sorry for the loss you will always endure. Catholics do not believe that those who do not have the abilitly to make decisions are held accountable for that.

Hopefully you have support with those that can help you understand that many people commited suicide and were not allowed a Church burial.
The Church changed it’s mind on this matter, and claims they know better now.
Apparently not in your daughter’s case!
More lies.
 
St_Francis said:
Ellzeena,
I am so sorry to hear of your daughter’s death–I cannot imagine anything worse.

I read it and was/am profoundly affected by Dr Polo’s testimony. But I am a person who needs to hear or read that information.

For you, what you need to think about is God’s great mercy and perfect understanding. God will not punish her for anything of which she is not guilty. If someone knocked over a valuable vase during an epileptic seizure, that would not be his fault, would it? And whatever your daughter did as a result of her illness would also not be imputed to her.

God loves us so very much, and He can see what is written on our hearts in a perfect way. He will judge your daughter *only *on what is genuinely on her own heart, not on what was connected with her illness.

We pray for our loved ones in Purgatory on the chance they are still there, and God uses those prayers for others in Purgatory if our own loved one for whom we offer them is not there.

Again, my sympathies and and I will pray for your daughter and family.
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Thank you, all, for weighing in on this. I had 30 Gregorian masses said for my daughter and she is perpetually enrolled in that ministry. Also I have visited the sacred shrines in France and Portugal (including Lourdes and Fatima) and attempted dozens of plenary indulgences on her behalf. What I worry about is my torment. How can she enjoy the beatific presence of our Lord when I am suffering so much, and I can’t just stop suffering. I appreciate your prayers and support. God bless you.
 
Your suffering reflects your love for her, and mourning brings us closer to God; you will see her well, free from her suffering, in His presence.
 
ellzeena said:
Thank you, all, for weighing in on this. I had 30 Gregorian masses said for my daughter and she is perpetually enrolled in that ministry. Also I have visited the sacred shrines in France and Portugal (including Lourdes and Fatima) and attempted dozens of plenary indulgences on her behalf. What I worry about is my torment. How can she enjoy the beatific presence of our Lord when I am suffering so much, and I can’t just stop suffering. I appreciate your prayers and support. God bless you.
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Those who currently enjoy the beatific vision do not have a complete enjoyment, if you see what I mean, and they pray for us who are here on Earth, esp their loved ones.

The sorrow you feel must be among the greatest anyone can know. To have seen her suffer here on earth and the lengths to which her illness took her… I think that if you could discuss this with a really good priest or other holy person, they may be able to help you with your torment. Naturally you will always feel this sorrow, but for it to torment you–I think that God can help you with that, and someone who has more knowlege and with whom you can talk back and forth would be able to help you find God’s peace.

I will pray for you about this.

Annie
 
Just because you don’t want to hear something does not mean it is fear mongering. Want to do something rather than take your chances and presume God’s mercy? Strive to become a saint.

For anyone who has dead family members I would advice asking your parish priest to offer a few masses for them.No one knows if they are in hell or not, and the mass is the ultimate sacrifice to offer for them. I myself am placing my hopes on the brown scapular, first saturday and first friday devotions.
 
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