What (to you) is the Hardest Scripture to Understand?

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For me it is the one about how people can do “mighty deeds” such as cast out demons & prophesy… and yet still not make it to Heaven :eek: …

and a similar one where Jesus says that many will attempt to enter Heaven but will not be strong enough…

(that last one isn’t so hard to understand as the first, though…)
 
dont give what is holy to dogs.

I dont think I completely understand this one. but I have idea.
wear do I draw the line between dogs and just evangelizing.
are protestants dogs? are Jews? Are muslims?

Im not trying to be funny.
I just dont know.
 
Mini_gerbel said:
dont give what is holy to dogs.

I dont think I completely understand this one. but I have idea.
wear do I draw the line between dogs and just evangelizing.
are protestants dogs? are Jews? Are muslims?

Im not trying to be funny.
I just dont know.
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My personal opinion is that, if the individual you are talking with, repeatedly mocks what you say and throws it back in your face bordering on blasphemy every time the two of you speak it is time to stop casting your pearls before swine. . . but that’s just me.
 
Marsha_Adams said:
My personal opinion is that, if the individual you are talking with, repeatedly mocks what you say and throws it back in your face bordering on blasphemy every time the two of you speak it is time to stop casting your pearls before swine. . . but that’s just me.
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thanks for (name removed by moderator)ut. 🙂
I never thought of it that way.
 
I always wondered about that “pearls before swine” passage, whether it might have more to do with giving something valuable only to someone who will appreciate it - a pig treasures root vegetables above all else and has no use for our jewellery, so why give what we value when we will have more luck relating to them if we give them what they value?
 
Crepusculum said:
I always wondered about that “pearls before swine” passage, whether it might have more to do with giving something valuable only to someone who will appreciate it - a pig treasures root vegetables above all else and has no use for our jewellery, so why give what we value when we will have more luck relating to them if we give them what they value?
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Context is everything here. The first part of the context is who is speaking and to whom. Jesus, a Jew, is speaking to Jews. There was nothing more unclean to a Jew than a pig. The thought of giving anything of value to a pig was mind-boggling. The second part of the context was that Jesus either had already told or would tell the parable the Pearl of Great Price in which the Pearl was symbolic of salvation. Therefore placed in context, “cast not your pearls before swine” is basically (really rough paraphrase here) “don’t allow invincibly ignorant people to mock and blaspheme your most precious faith.”

Now taken out of that context, we see pigs rooting around for food and having no use for jewelry - food has value, jewelry is useless so pigs have chosen the better part and we should speak to them on their level. But this is dangerous, does that mean that when I try to evangelize druggies, whores and abortionists that I should try to find common ground with them? To these people, life has no value and we are offering them life - eternal, bought and paid for by Jesus’ blood

Two interesting but completely different takes on one line of Scripture.
 
Marsha_Adams said:
Context is everything here. The first part of the context is who is speaking and to whom. Jesus, a Jew, is speaking to Jews. There was nothing more unclean to a Jew than a pig. The thought of giving anything of value to a pig was mind-boggling. The second part of the context was that Jesus either had already told or would tell the parable the Pearl of Great Price in which the Pearl was symbolic of salvation. Therefore placed in context, “cast not your pearls before swine” is basically (really rough paraphrase here) “don’t allow invincibly ignorant people to mock and blaspheme your most precious faith.”

Now taken out of that context, we see pigs rooting around for food and having no use for jewelry - food has value, jewelry is useless so pigs have chosen the better part and we should speak to them on their level. But this is dangerous, does that mean that when I try to evangelize druggies, whores and abortionists that I should try to find common ground with them? To these people, life has no value and we are offering them life - eternal, bought and paid for by Jesus’ blood

Two interesting but completely different takes on one line of Scripture.
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thank you that clears things up a bit
 
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Marsha_Adams:
good analogies…
There was nothing more unclean to a Jew than a pig.
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True… but its interesting that the people who live longest (Okinawa) eat a lot of fatty pork… (Yes, i know… more or less irrelevent info… but interesting to me… since Jews don’t eat pork…)
“cast not your pearls before swine” is basically (really rough paraphrase here) “don’t allow invincibly ignorant people to mock and blaspheme your most precious faith.”
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by invincibly ignorant, do you mean people who refuse to, well, not be ignorant?
  • food has value, jewelry is useless so pigs have chosen the better part and we should speak to them on their level. But this is dangerous, does that mean that when I try to evangelize druggies, whores and abortionists that I should try to find common ground with them? To these people, life has no value and we are offering them life - eternal, bought and paid for by Jesus’ blood
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Interesting… i never thought about it that way but it is true that their lives have no real purpose for them… I used to be lost like those people (though never involved in any of those 3 things)… I never knew how lost i was until i was found… so we do have to meet people on their own level to some extent… meaning we have to realize that they don’t know what they are missing out on, etc…
 
Distracted:

do an internet search on “invincible ignorance” and that will help you understand the term. But in the interim let me give you an example.

Suppose your parents, extended family, friends, and church members all believe that the earth is flat.
  1. I tell you that no, it is spherical.
You refuse to believe me, because everyone you know and respect swears before God and man that it is flat.
  1. I show you a globe.
You refuse to believe me, because everyone you know and respect swears before God and man that it is flat.
  1. I point to the moon and sun and tell you that all heavenly bodies are spherical.
You refuse to believe me, because everyone you know and respect swears before God and man that it is flat.
  1. I explain that the reason that you can only see so far to the horizon is because of the curvature of the earth.
You refuse to believe me, because everyone you know and respect swears before God and man that it is flat.
  1. I take you up in the space shuttle so you can have a good long look at the earth as we orbit it, and while doing so I show you the corresponding continents and oceans on the globe that I brought along.
You refuse to believe me, because everyone you know and respect swears before God and man that it is flat.

That is invincible ignorance. It cannot be overcome by any amount of reasoning. There are no arguments, proofs or explanations that can overcome the ignorance of an invincibly ignorant person. The good news is that it is not the fault of the invincibly ignorant person that he is ignorant, and therefore no sin attaches itself to that person for the things he does in ignorance.
 
Marsha_Adams said:
…You refuse to believe me, because everyone you know and respect swears before God and man that it is flat.

That is invincible ignorance. It cannot be overcome by any amount of reasoning.
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I was following you until you said this:
. The good news is that it is not the fault of the invincibly ignorant person that he is ignorant, and therefore no sin attaches itself to that person for the things he does in ignorance.
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How can a person not be accountable for such obstinancy?? I mean… if a person can look at the evidence… & look and look… isn’t it just rejection of truth that comes into play??

Isn’t that (more or less) the unforgivable sin? I mean, Jesus said that blashpemy of the Holy Spirit is the unforgivable sin… the Holy Spirit tells us when something is true or something is not… To reject the truth when one knows it is the truth is choosing evil over good… and damaging one’s soul…
 
distracted said:
I was following you until you said this:

How can a person not be accountable for such obstinancy?? I mean… if a person can look at the evidence… & look and look… isn’t it just rejection of truth that comes into play??

Isn’t that (more or less) the unforgivable sin? I mean, Jesus said that blashpemy of the Holy Spirit is the unforgivable sin… the Holy Spirit tells us when something is true or something is not… To reject the truth when one knows it is the truth is choosing evil over good… and damaging one’s soul…
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Ahhh but you see that is the “beauty” of ignorance. One believes in their heart that they ARE seeing the truth… Not that they reject it, but they just don’t see it. Now, if that person were in fact touched by the Holy Spirit, and had (using today’s law terms) “reasonable doubt” then they would no longer be invincibly ignorant, and to deny this truth then, would be sinful.

For example, (hypothetical only) we believe Saints are united in Heaven with God… But WE, perfectly fallible Human Beings instated them as Saints (and for good reason, don’t get me wrong, I’m not bashing anybody here, just go with this as a hypothesis) So we pray to this one for this intention, that one for the other… but let’s just say for a moment, that somebody made a mistake, completely unbeknownst to us… Would you be sinful in praying to someone who didn’t end up in Heaven, if you have 100% belief that what you’re doing is right in the eyes of God?
 
Diana_Lynn said:
So we pray to this one for this intention, that one for the other… but let’s just say for a moment, that somebody made a mistake
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What do you mean by this: “somebody made a mistake”?
Would you be sinful in praying to someone who didn’t end up in Heaven, if you have 100% belief that what you’re doing is right in the eyes of God?
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It is also good to pray to people in Purgatory & to offer our sufferings for them so they can get to Heaven sooner… If you pray to someone who is in Hell, that’s different…

I do not fully understand wht you are saying… :confused:
 
I have spent a great amount of time of this:

34 And Simeon blessed them, and said to Mary his mother: Behold this child is set for the fall, and for the resurrection of many in Israel, and for a sign which shall be contradicted; 35 And thy own soul a sword shall pierce, that, out of many hearts, thoughts may be revealed.

I have never fully understoof the final part “that, out of many hearts, thoughts may be revealed”
 
Mini_gerbel said:
dont give what is holy to dogs.

I dont think I completely understand this one. but I have idea.
wear do I draw the line between dogs and just evangelizing.
are protestants dogs? are Jews? Are muslims?

Im not trying to be funny.
I just dont know.
Click to expand...
There is a favorite saying of mine: Never argue with a fool, bystanders can’t tell the difference. It is in this light that I look at Jesus’ statement. If someone does not want to listen, is derrogatory, abusive etc, don’t waste your time trying to give him or her something that is Holy that they do not want and will reject. I think that He is talking about individuals rather than a generalized group of people. After all He did say He came to save all people.

I struggle with the concept of eternal damnation and Hell. I accept the Church’s teaching but I still struggle with it.
 
The hardest one for me to understand is: …2 women will be
grinding corn, one is taken, one is left.

And when they ask where, Lord? The mysterious answer is
where the carcass lies, there will the vultures gather.

It completely does not answer the question. Is the person
taken to life or death? Is the one who is left, left alive or left
to die?
 
HelenRose said:
I struggle with the concept of eternal damnation and Hell. I accept the Church’s teaching but I still struggle with it.
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I do too… but then when i think of all the opportunities people are given to repent… it seems that when one does not ever repent & even refuses at death… well, it seems to me the person has allowed himself to become virtually possessed…

Or maybe not just virtually… so it makes sense that one who has thus sold out to satan would then go be with satan… & since the soul of such a one is that unclean, it then hasn’t the wherewithal to desire cleansing in the fires of Purgatory… In other words, he/she doesn’t want to be cleansed… can’t endure what it takes to be cleansed…

(Revelation: “No unclean thing will enter Heaven”).

That is what helps me to fathom eternal Hell… but we can & SHOULD PRAY hard… The rosary is powerful against the powers of the devil…
 
I did just a little double-take on the gospels last week where Jesus told Mary not to touch Him … and then later, invited Thomas to put his hand in the nails. Anyone know the reason for one being permitted and not the other?
 
i will go one better. to this day i still don’t understand revelation.
years pass, and still nothing. ocassionally i move close to its truth, but i’m pushed back by the fact that the Nazarene, time after time, spoke against worrying about the future.

no doubt i will someday embrace its truth, and then i shall laugh at my ignorance.
 
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