What Tree is This?

[Socrates4Jesus]

Hi Soc!!!
How could you guys have had a whole thread without me?!
In answer to your question, you go where God leads you. I will be praying for you!

Phil

Thanks Phil. It will be difficult to go without my wife. She has much resentment toward the Catholic church.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Hello Soc, May we say welcome home, I’ll be praying for you.

How shall I make a return to the Lord
for all the good He has done for me?

The cup of Salvation I will take up,
and I will call upon
the name of the Lord. Psalm 116: 12-13

Thank you Mary J, for sticking with me even though my questions likely annoyed or even offended you. You certainly have a heart like the Blessed Mother whose name you bear.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Sometimes we forget what the cross was made of.

Wood.

From a tree.

At the begining of Genesis we remember another tree.

Genesis 3:17
Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have **eaten from the tree **about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’;
Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life.

Adam disobeyed God’s command to not eat from the tree. The first sin. We call Original Sin.This sin is called original because it comes down to us through our origin, or descent, from Adam.

Romans 5:12 **
Therefore as through one man sin entered into the world **and through sin death, and **thus death has passed unto all men **because all have sinned.

The chief punishments of Adam which we inherit through original sin are: death, suffering, ignorance, and a strong inclination to sin.

**Wisdom 2:24 **
But, by the envy of the devil, death came into the world.

Genesis 3:19
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread till thou return to the earth, out of which thou wast taken; for dust thou art, and into dust thou shalt return.

Because of Adam’s sin heaven’s doors were closed to us.God the Father promised us someone who would redeem us.

**Genesis 3:15 **
I will put enmities between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed; he shall crush your head, and you shall lie in wait his heel.

Jesus the Christ bore all the sins of the world and sacrificed His life for us. He redeemed us.And God opened the doors to heaven for us.

1 Peter 2:24
and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us–for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE”–

**1 Corinthians 15:3 **
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

It had been written in the Old Testament that …

Deuteronomy 21:22
"If a man has committed **a sin worthy of death **and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree,

Well Jesus was carrying all our sins on His body.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

Acts 10:39
"We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross.

Through a tree came death, Adam’s sin. And through a tree came life, Jesus’ crucifixion

What grows on a tree?

Fruit.

What do you do with fruit?

You eat it.

Good quotes, those, Fellow.

 

[Pax]

…
…

“For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.”

I find it interesting that there are so few words He spoke in the 55th verse of the 6th chapter of John’s gospel that made the difference for me. Also fascinating is that there are 12 words (in English) which is the Jewish number for completeness. The words together form a complete answer to my question, “Is the Eucharist the true body and blood of Christ?” No words need to be added nor should any be taken away. In one breath He caused me to see the truth i cannot unsee.

The count of “twelve words” is an interesting observation Soc. I like that and your points that follow.

 

[mdcpensive1]

Hello Socrates4, I have never posted with you but anything is possible.
It is interesting that I was listening to a homily today on EWTN and Fr. Mitch was saying that the Jewish concept of understanding was not from the brain, but was from the heart and the intestines (very interesting). In other words, what they ate or digested gave them understanding. If Jesus carried that analogy further for them, they would know that eating and drinking of Him was a greater participation in the life of Jesus.

mdcpensive1

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

The count of “twelve words” is an interesting observation Soc. I like that and your points that follow.

Thanks, Pax.

12 tribes = the complete Jewish nation
12 apostles = the complete leadership of the early church
12 words = the complete thought that completely changed my mind

I find it fascinating how God puts his signature on what he does.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Hello Socrates4, I have never posted with you but anything is possible.
It is interesting that I was listening to a homily today on EWTN and Fr. Mitch was saying that the Jewish concept of understanding was not from the brain, but was from the heart and the intestines (very interesting). In other words, what they ate or digested gave them understanding. If Jesus carried that analogy further for them, they would know that eating and drinking of Him was a greater participation in the life of Jesus.

mdcpensive1

Interesting, pensive.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

I find it interesting that at a forum such as this controversy breeds interest, but compliance gives birth to indifference. Does anyone know why this is the case?

 

[mdcpensive1]

I find it interesting that at a forum such as this controversy breeds interest, but compliance gives birth to indifference. Does anyone know why this is the case?

That is not always the case. One thread I was following was if transubstantiation was in the bible. It was quite interesting in that one thought gave in to another and built upon one another.

I sometimes believe that we sometimes think like lawyers and try to find the exceptions and argue from the “loyal opposition”. Since this is the year of St. Paul, we (I myself) think in terms of reason and relationship and how Paul was influenced by Plato.

mdcpensive1

 

[RebeccaJ]

Hey soc, welcome back.

Illumination is what you call your experience, when all of the sudden, a scripture that held little to no meaning jumps out at you with a bit of truth that is astounding. And nope, once you are illuminated by the Holy Spirit, you can’t turn off the light and see it as you did before.

You can work it out with your wife. I am RC my husband is atheist. He has no love for any religion, at all, and when I told him I was going on a quest to find God, he literally cried and said it was going to be the undoing of our marriage. It’s been rocky, and difficult points…I have just a hard of a time with his atheism as he does my belief. But we work it out, and what I have learned is that my husband loves me enough to let me be who I need to be. He came to my baptism, reminds me of fish fridays (I forget!), takes me to Mass sometimes, and wouldn’t hear of splitting up on Christmas eve (he came to Mass with me).

So, have faith, that your wife loves you more than enough to weather the storm that change brings about. And don’t fear! Christ is with you and calms the storm, and removes fear from your heart.

Pray soc, for you and your wife, and I will too.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

That is not always the case. One thread I was following was if transubstantiation was in the bible. It was quite interesting in that one thought gave in to another and built upon one another.

I sometimes believe that we sometimes think like lawyers and try to find the exceptions and argue from the “loyal opposition”. Since this is the year of St. Paul, we (I myself) think in terms of reason and relationship and how Paul was influenced by Plato.

mdcpensive1

Was this discussion thread of which you speak so long that the Forum administrator had to close the thread so that it continued in another thread (both of which had 100s of posts)?

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Hey soc, welcome back.

Illumination is what you call your experience, when all of the sudden, a scripture that held little to no meaning jumps out at you with a bit of truth that is astounding. And nope, once you are illuminated by the Holy Spirit, you can’t turn off the light and see it as you did before.

You can work it out with your wife. I am RC my husband is atheist. He has no love for any religion, at all, and when I told him I was going on a quest to find God, he literally cried and said it was going to be the undoing of our marriage. It’s been rocky, and difficult points…I have just a hard of a time with his atheism as he does my belief. But we work it out, and what I have learned is that my husband loves me enough to let me be who I need to be. He came to my baptism, reminds me of fish fridays (I forget!), takes me to Mass sometimes, and wouldn’t hear of splitting up on Christmas eve (he came to Mass with me).

So, have faith, that your wife loves you more than enough to weather the storm that change brings about. And don’t fear! Christ is with you and calms the storm, and removes fear from your heart.

Pray soc, for you and your wife, and I will too.

Thanks for your prayers, Rebecca (and good to read your thoughts once again)! My wife used to be an atheist. I used to try to talk her out of it until she told me to stop. So i just loved her and prayed and she slowly came around. She’s now a Christian with one of the strongest moral compasses i’ve ever seen. She keeps me on track.

So, what is the process to become a Roman Catholic? (serious question). I mean, is there some kind of 12-step program for ex-Protestants? (poor attempt at humor).

 

[maryj]

Soc, I know that last week at mass they announced that RCIA will be beginning in Sept. Get thee to a RCIA class and get ready to swim the tiber, Pray, and I know we suggested this a lot in the other threads but here I go again… Go to Adoration of the most Blessed Sacrament, we promise you’ll find peace there…PROMISE. Good luck and God Bless you and your wife.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Soc, I know that last week at mass they announced that RCIA will be beginning in Sept. Get thee to a RCIA class and get ready to swim the tiber, Pray, and I know we suggested this a lot in the other threads but here I go again… Go to Adoration of the most Blessed Sacrament, we promise you’ll find peace there…PROMISE. Good luck and God Bless you and your wife.

Thanks MaryJ!

I never attended Catechism classes (i left the Catholic church soon after i was confirmed). Are such classes prerequisites for RCIA?

 

[steve_b]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/00c79PFbkfaBY/610x.jpg

For me, my faith is like an inviting forest, with many wondrous trees. Each tree is a truth i find in the Bible. For the longest time i’ve wondered beneath the cool shade of these truths, thinking they were all of one kind, like the pines and oaks are the trees of a disingenuous forest.

A few months ago i discovered one tree seemingly unlike the rest. Like finding a palm tree among snow-clothed pines, it did not seem to belong. That tree is this:

For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.These words of Jesus in John 6:55 don’t seem to fit. I mean, either i’ve been blind to what kind of Protestant forest i’ve been walking through, or i’m now blind to what kind of tree i think i’ve found.

Will anyone help me out?

Have no fear my friend (JPII paraphrased)

God is working His way through that tough outer bark. I sense you’re on your way.

http://www2.yardiac.com/images.asp?id=11909

 

[RebeccaJ]

Thanks MaryJ!

I never attended Catechism classes (i left the Catholic church soon after i was confirmed). Are such classes prerequisites for RCIA?

Soc, did you receive your first communion?

RCIA is a process, which includes a class for teaching Catholic doctrines. It is designed primarily around bringing Catholic converts into the Church.

My RCIA class last year was comprised of us non-baptized, baptized Christians (Catholic and non-Catholic) who needed to be confirmed, and one woman who was baptized as a child, confirmed as a teen, but didn’t really know her Catholic faith very well so she was sitting in on the classes.

You are in the same spot as that one woman. You don’t need baptism or confirmation but you are seeking to understand your faith better.

So, are you going to Mass? If not, go.

For you to receive the Eucharist you need to go to confession.

Perhaps the best approach for you would be to make an appointment with a Priest (at the parish you plan on attending Mass), tell him what’s up in soc’s life, that you would like to return to the Catholic Church, and that you would like to attend RCIA in order to learn your Catholic faith. You could also do confession then (with the Priest), but that is of course up to you.

I guess what I hope you are getting from this, is that RCIA includes catechesis, so it is a good place for you to be and I recommend it. Just, you wouldn’t be going through the associated rites that are for new converts and those seeking confirmation.

In the meantime, I recommend you pick up “The United States Catholic Catechism for Adults”

 

[maryj]

Thanks MaryJ!

I never attended Catechism classes (i left the Catholic church soon after i was confirmed). Are such classes prerequisites for RCIA?

Are you sure on this one? Preperation for confirmation is the teaching of the catechism. Any whoo, confession, great recommendation, it’s for the life of the soul, can’t go wrong. There is nothin any priest hasn’t heard before and he will be over joyuous to help you with your confession. Check out Adoration, I think we’ve said that before.

 

[Nita]

Thanks MaryJ!

I never attended Catechism classes (i left the Catholic church soon after i was confirmed). Are such classes prerequisites for RCIA?

If you were baptized and confirmed in the Catholic Church, then all you need to do is go to Confession – and then you may start receiving Holy Communion at Mass.

You note that you did not receive much instruction in the faith prior to your Confirmation. You can take care of that by study on your own (begin by reading the Catholic Catechism of the Catholic Church) and/or attending RCIA classes. No requirements for RCIA. Just call the closest Catholic Church and inquire about signing up for a class.

The Catechism is a large book and can seem daunting. But, it is divided into 4 major parts. Begin by setting out to read just the first part (based on the Apostles’ Creed). It is great.

Will pray for you and your wife,
Nita

P.S. I know what you mean about the power of just a few words. I lost my faith in Jesus when I was younger. It was just one clause in a sentence from Lewis’ “Mere Christianity” that was the instrument God used to flood me with the reality of who Jesus was.

 

[mdcpensive1]

Was this discussion thread of which you speak so long that the Forum administrator had to close the thread so that it continued in another thread (both of which had 100s of posts)?

It probably was one of those. I copied many of the posts and re-read them later and then even later. I used the info in bible classes and other places. I learned a lot.

mdcpensive1

 

[mtr01]

So, what is the process to become a Roman Catholic? (serious question). I mean, is there some kind of 12-step program for ex-Protestants? (poor attempt at humor).

Hi Socrates,

I’ve never dialogued with you before, but your are in my prayers while on your journey.

Having some experience with your question (and situation) as I am a “revert” (from non-practicing cultural Catholicism), hopefully I can give you an adequate answer.

If I understand correctly, you have received Baptism, First Communion and Confirmation, correct? If so, all that would be required of you is a profession of faith and general confession before being able to receive the Eucharist again. This could be done privately by your parish’s pastor - just make an appointment.

Chances are, however, that since you’ve been “away” for a while, he’ll want you to attend RCIA classes (which is what happened in my case). If so, it is an excellent form of fellowship as well as a good refresher on what makes a Catholic, well Catholic. Another “perk” is that you would most likely be received back into the Church at the Easter Vigil Mass, which is one of the most beautiful Masses of the Liturgical Year, and an experience you will never forget.

As an aside, noting your interest in researching the authority of the Church vs. the authority of the Bible, I thought this link might interest you. It is a 19th century sermon (so a tad polemic ), but touches on most of the relevant points, and may be a good springboard for more in-depth research.

God Bless you on your journey!